Media praise for Mark Wilson, and the other opinion.

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From WFAA.com

Man praised for taking on Tyler killer
He's mourned as hero, but DPS discourages citizen intervention


11:26 PM CST on Friday, February 25, 2005

By MICHAEL GRABELL / The Dallas Morning News




Mark Wilson's split-second decision to take on the Tyler courthouse shooter – a decision that authorities credit with saving lives – cost him his life.

Mr. Wilson's friends said Friday that was typical of the former Dallas resident, 52, who lived by the "cowboy code," always ready to help someone in danger.

"That's his character," said John Seiple, a close friend and neighbor. "He saw people that were being shot, and even if he didn't have a gun, Mark was the type of person that would have tried to do something about it anyway."

Tyler law-enforcement officials and others called Mr. Wilson's actions on Thursday heroic and selfless. However, other officials said it is not an example they'd like to see emulated by the 237,000 Texans licensed to conceal handguns.

"Leave the crime fighting to us," said Tela Mange, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. "There are just all kinds of situations that they can find themselves in that don't turn out well."


David Hernandez Arroyo David Hernandez Arroyo, 43, opened fire on his ex-wife, Maribel Estrada, and an adult son with an AK-47 Thursday afternoon. They were arriving for a child-support proceeding at the Smith County Courthouse.

Mr. Arroyo had shot the two when Mr. Wilson came down from his loft overlooking the town square and shot at the man, who was wearing a bulletproof vest and military flak jacket. It remained unclear Friday if any of the rounds Mr. Wilson fired from his Colt .45-caliber pistol hit Mr. Arroyo, said Officer Don Martin, a Tyler police spokesman. The two traded shots before Mr. Wilson fell.

But police believe Mr. Wilson distracted the gunman just as he was readying to shoot his son, David Arroyo Jr., 21. The killer ended up wounding three law-enforcement officers before he was gunned down after a car chase.

"It's in our opinion and from all the witness accounts, that Mr. Wilson saved the life of the suspect's son," Officer Martin said. "Because [the gunman] had several rounds, he possibly saved other lives."

State law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves and others from deadly force, said Barry Sorrels, a longtime Dallas defense attorney.

"I think this is a perfect example of why we have such a good handgun law in this state, and this is a perfect example of how that can be a benefit to others," said Mr. Sorrels, who lectures on concealed handgun laws for the state bar.

But gun control advocates said a lesson of the shooting is that gun laws should be tighter.

Marsha McCartney, Dallas chapter president for the Million Mom March, questioned Mr. Arroyo's possession of the assault weapon. Mr. Arroyo was a convicted felon who shouldn't have had a gun. Police said Friday they didn't know when or where Mr. Arroyo got the gun.

"Concealed handgun carriers sometimes commit crimes and sometimes are heroes," Ms. McCartney said. "Unfortunately, the hero part doesn't happen very often, and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?"

James McLaughlin, executive director of the Texas Police Chiefs Association, said handgun carriers who come upon a crime must make life-and-death observations in a flash. Police officers are trained to deal with such situations.


AP
Bullet holes riddle a first-floor window of the Smith County Courthouse after a shootout, which left three people dead and four people wounded Thursday. Civilians also must quickly consider how police will distinguish them from bad guys and whether the situation is what it seems to be.

"I was in law enforcement for 30 years, and I certainly never knew what something was when I pulled up on it," Mr. McLaughlin said.

Friends said Mr. Wilson's reaction was typical of a man who always did what he believed was right. He was described as a hard-edged Vietnam War veteran who worked odd jobs, loved racquetball and was protective about his white 1986 Porsche.

He opened a shooting range in Tyler in 1997, but lost it for financial reasons about a year later.

"He wanted a place where citizens and law enforcement could learn and practice self-defense in a safe environment," said Dr. Scott Lieberman, who invested in the shooting range. "To be honest, this was a dream of his for six years, to have that range built."

Mr. Wilson graduated from MacArthur High School in Irving and owned a car repair shop in Dallas in the 1980s, Mr. Seiple said.

Mr. Seiple, a high school teacher in Tyler, was in class when he heard about the shooting and told students about his friend.

"I told them that he was like a hero," he said. "He died because he saw some people who were being hurt and he reacted to the situation like hero would, like someone that would risk themselves to help somebody else."

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"Concealed handgun carriers sometimes commit crimes and sometimes are heroes," Ms. McCartney said


Where are your statistics for that you looney?

"Unfortunately, the hero part doesn't happen very often, and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?"

And what if some panty waste judge had thrown the book at this dude years ago like he should have, or what if aliens had come down and stopped the whole thing.

But they didn't, Ms McCartney. Mr Wilson saved a child, and you can't even admit that he did the right thing. I'm usually pretty nice, but I hope you get in a position someday where you need help, and all you have is your cell phone and a 11 minute response time to think about while you are being _________ (insert heinous crime of your choice here).
 
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Tela Mange is an idiot.
Yup, and totally ignorant of the facts of this case. As I argued with some maroon over at Glock Talk, Mr. Wilson was not interferring with the police when he engaged the shooter. In fact, it appears that no one was returning fire at that time, so had Mr. Wilson not stepped up to the plate, the shooter at a minimum would have killed his son.

Now, had Ms. Mange said "we typically discourage this type of behavior", I would fully agree with that sentiment because in most cases like this, there is already a police presence that is actively engaging the shooter.
 
Marsha McCartney, Dallas chapter president for the Million Mom March, questioned Mr. Arroyo's possession of the assault weapon. Mr. Arroyo was a convicted felon who shouldn't have had a gun. Police said Friday they didn't know when or where Mr. Arroyo got the gun.
Well through deductive reasoning, eliminating the possibility of legal aquizition, I believe the felon aquired the AK through illegal means. Also known as, those means that are all ready against the law.
"Concealed handgun carriers sometimes commit crimes and sometimes are heroes," Ms. McCartney said. "Unfortunately, the hero part doesn't happen very often...
Intellegent wording there. She managed to imply through the truthfull statement that "the hero part doesn't happen very often", that "the criminal parts happens often", and didn't lie at any point. Of course we all know that the criminal part happens far less than the hero part does.
and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?"
The bystander would have been injured, or would have died. But then again, he didn't shoot a bystander, and in a situation like that there are no bystanders. If this guy didn't intervene, the gunman would have shot everyone there. And I'm willing to bet that on average more police officers shoot more bystanders than CCWers do. After all, most "carriers" practice very often, and a lot of police don't(except for that qualifying stuff).
 
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. . .and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?

And what if, by pulling the trigger and launching a bullet, a rift in the space time continuum opened up and destroyed the planet?

Flippin' loon. :evil:
 
Can happen to a LEO too.

" . . .and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?"

Same question applies to the cops--people have been unintentionally killed and wounded by a police officer's gun.

And for the point of leaving the crime fighting to the police---well, what about WHEN THE COPS AREN'T THERE?

And of course, got to love the argument for more gun control when that AK seems to have been in illegal hands.

If we're going to tramp over a constitutional right, it outta be free speech restrictions to shut the morons up...

But, all that is really beside the point. Mark Wilson was a hero. God bless him for that.
 
"Concealed handgun carriers sometimes commit crimes and sometimes are heroes," Ms. McCartney said. "Unfortunately, the hero part doesn't happen very often, and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?"

Love it that when someone returns fire, the situtation somehoiw becomes worse because they might his an innocent bystander. HELLO! The guy is already firing into the crowd! What happens if he wasn't distracted, and accidently shot a bystander?
 
"Leave the crime fighting to us," said Tela Mange, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. "There are just all kinds of situations that they can find themselves in that don't turn out well."

Well, heck. I guess I'll sell all my guns and take bleating lessons.
 
Mr. [sic] Arroyo was a convicted felon who shouldn't have had a gun.
And it looks like that particular little piece of gun control didn't work very well :rolleyes:


BTW, anyone know exactly what kind of gun Arroyo actually used...?

Somehow I doubt that he had a genuine full-auto "AK-47", but of course that doesn't stop all the media from using that term. :banghead:
 
I read a post on one of the other gun boards from a guy in Longview (near Tyler) who said the gun used was a Mak 90 (?), of Norinco make. (?) Also said it was not full auto. He also said it would've been legal under the AWB. Of course, the shooter was reported to be convicted FELON, so federal gun control failed here...what a shock.
 
I'm surprised the MMM even has a "Texas chapter."

Hell, there's a million of 'em. There's one behind every tree, it's just that when they have a rally, only a few hundred show up. It's part of their strategy don't ya know.
 
"Concealed handgun carriers sometimes commit crimes and sometimes are heroes," Ms. McCartney said. "Unfortunately, the hero part doesn't happen very often, and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?"
Whine, whine, whine.

And if we can't criticize anything the poor guy did, let's just criticize what DIDN'T happen, all in the name of keeping our agenda consistent.

Reality check, Ms. McCartney -- he did NOT hit any bystanders, so that argument is a non-starter in my book.
 
Let's distribute armbands that say:

Please don't save me!

That way, if we see a nut attacking one of these folks, you can just run or go back to sleep.

I once told such a person that since they made their views clear, that if we are ever together and a bad man approaches, I will tell the bad man that I'm armed and will defend myself. However, you are free to do what you want to the schmuck next to me.

I have great respect for police but police dogma from spokespeople is usually like this.
 
I'm surprised the MMM even has a "Texas chapter."

Having attended a few MMM events in Dallas, I can say that not all of their membership is entirely sympathetic to their agenda; but they do like to be well-informed ;)
 
DPS and other LE agencies

Would rather let a perpetrator commit a crime to its fullest without civilian interference????? Guess that way they get to bargain a mass murder down to manslaughter and still get a conviction. I suppose a victim should not even fight back when he is the target either. :fire: That way no innocent offender is hurt needlessly, or is kept intact for the police chase and heroics if they can figure out who did it. Police agencies have an agenda of being the only protection around. Job security. Let the bad guys go after being caught to prey and be caught again and again. Lawyers happy, cops happy, game in play. Innocent civilians devastated and dead. :cuss:
 
Then WHERE was the DPS?

I am absolutely digusted at Mizzz Mange's comment:

"Leave the crime fighting to us," said Tela Mange, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. "There are just all kinds of situations that they can find themselves in that don't turn out well."

If Texans are supposed to ignore others in trouble it leads to the question: "Mizzz Mange.... WHERE was the DPS when this was going on? Why didn't the DPS stop the shooter? Why did the DPS allow this criminal to shoot citizens?"

Of course the DPS can't be everywhere... that is why Mizzz Mange's answer is utterly mangey and certainly an embarassment to the DPS.

She needs to be fired muy pronto.

FWIW

Chuck
 
"Concealed handgun carriers sometimes commit crimes and sometimes are heroes," Ms. McCartney said. "Unfortunately, the hero part doesn't happen very often, and what if he had hit a bystander while he was firing?"
Implying, Ms. Mcartney, that CHL holders commit crimes much more often than they are heroes?
 
Click here & do with the information as you wish.

Brad

Feedback sent, thanks for the link Brad......

Is anybody else out there getting completely fed up with all this crap from the likes of them yet???????
 
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