methods to improve speed?

[old lady new shooter]

So, yesterday thankfully I saw that I could get acceptable (but of course still improvable!) accuracy, so I think I'm on the right track with that.

Since in real life, fast accuracy is, um, a lot better than not-fast accuracy, the next thing after I get the grip issue resolved is to get faster. What has worked for people here?

I see shot timers run ~$120 and up... also see some "countdown timers" for around $14, wondering if two of those used together could be a cheaper workaround, i.e. suppose you want to see how many shots you can place accurately in 5 seconds and you want 10 seconds to put the thing down and pick up your gun to get ready for your test, set one of them to go off in 10 seconds and the other in 15 seconds, the first one going off would be your start signal, the second one your stop signal. ???

 

[Jeff White]

I wouldn't invest the money in a shot timer just yet. Right now the money would be better spent on more professional instruction and practice ammo.

Right now you should concentrate on doing things correctly and smoothly. The speed will come as your execution becomes smoother.

It takes thousands of correct repetitions to develop muscle memory for a task. You get the correct repetitions by starting slow. I like to start with the "by the numbers" technique, where you number each step that you have to perform to successfully make the shot.

For instance, if you are going to start the shot sequence by picking up your weapon from the table, number 1 should be to achieve a firing grip on the weapon with your strong hand.

Number 2 would be to raise the weapon to meet your weak hand mid torso.

Number 3 raise the weapon in a two handed grip into your line of sight.

Number 4 would be to acquire the sight picture.

Number 5 would be to move your finger into the trigger and number 6 press the trigger.

When you start out, actually say the number of this step out loud as you perform it.

Start slow and concentrate on doing it right. Incorrect repetitions undo correct repetitions.

While you can practice this yourself, it's always good to have someone watch you and make corrections until you know what the correct movement looks and feels like.

You can practice this using dry fire.

I can't emphasize enough that it's important to go slow. You want your movements to be smooth.

Louis Awerbuck, one of the best instructors ever to stand behind the line used to say; "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast."

The speed will come as you get smoother.

 

[old lady new shooter]

^^^

Thanks, your method appeals to my very left-brain personality.

Given that everybody in the other section is now telling me the instructor from yesterday gave me bad advice about grip (crossing support hand thumb over the back and gripping as hard as possible), I guess he isn't a revolver expert. Wish I knew how to find one around here (San Fernando Valley).

 

[Jeff White]

You might send a PM to Frank Ettin, our legal forum moderator. Frank teaches a beginners class and if you aren't close to him I'm sure he can recommend a good instructor in California who is near you.

 

[lemaymiami]

Speed would be the last thing I'd work on.... Situational awareness at all times, smoothness from first motion all the way through firing a shot, then accuracy always... would be what's important in real life. Speed will come as you work to minimize any extra motion from holster to weapon on target through the fired shot in the center of mass... time after time until you don't even think about it - the response from start to finish should be almost automatic. Hope this helps.

The best instructor I ever had (in a police setting) was the one who got me to relax and just work to smooth out the process from start to finish while standing in a balanced ready to move position. As a result of that emphasis I felt as good after a few hours on the range as I did at the beginning of the session - and my actual scores and times improved (even though I'd already been in police work, carrying 24/7 for years....).

 

[old lady new shooter]

OK, thanks very much, I will do that.

 

[murf]

if you can see this as dancing with a partner, what the others have said should make sense. learn the steps slowly, get into a rhythm with your partner and practice the moves until you get comfortable with your partner and confident with yourself. then you can pick up the tempo!

murf

 

[old lady new shooter]

Speed would be the last thing I'd work on.... Situational awareness at all times, smoothness from first motion all the way through firing a shot, then accuracy always... would be what's important in real life. Speed will come as you work to minimize any extra motion from holster to weapon on target through the fired shot in the center of mass... time after time until you don't even think about it - the response from start to finish should be almost automatic. Hope this helps.

The best instructor I ever had (in a police setting) was the one who got me to relax and just work to smooth out the process from start to finish while standing in a balanced ready to move position. As a result of that emphasis I felt as good after a few hours on the range as I did at the beginning of the session - and my actual scores and times improved (even though I'd already been in police work, carrying 24/7 for years....).

Very good advice, thank you very much.

I did actually get faster as the session progressed. I guess what raised the issue in my mind was that early on the instructor told me to try going faster, that made me feel like I was going too slowly.

 

[old lady new shooter]

if you can see this as dancing with a partner, what the others have said should make sense. learn the steps slowly, get into a rhythm with your partner and practice the moves until you get comfortable with your partner and confident with yourself. then you can pick up the tempo!

murf

Nice analogy!

I can't honestly say the gun felt like my partner yesterday.

 

[murf]

with patience and practice it will.

murf

 

[1911 guy]

What they said.
The method i used with new shooters is to go slow and make sure everything is right. When groups are predictable and consistent, speed up your shooting. Groups will open up, but your task is now to improve groups at the new speed.

Make sure you thoroughly read Jeff White's post. Solid information.

Since your posts seem to indicate that your shooting is oriented toward defensive use, also pay close attention to what lemaymiami said. Make situational awareness part of your shooting routine. Visual scans, etc. Make it a habit. When under stress, you WILL perform the actions you've habituated yourself to.

People do not rise to the occasion. They default to their level of training.

 

[Bix]

Given that everybody in the other section is now telling me the instructor from yesterday gave me bad advice about grip (crossing support hand thumb over the back and gripping as hard as possible), I guess he isn't a revolver expert. Wish I knew how to find one around here (San Fernando Valley).

You may be fairly close to ITTS:

http://www.internationaltactical.com/index.html

I've not had the benefit of training with Scott Reitz, but he has an excellent reputation in the training community, and the folks I know who've had classes with him have been extremely satisfied. His cv can be found on their site.

They have a revolver-specific class in the course list:

http://www.internationaltactical.com/revolver.html

Jeff's advice is very good. Quality training is the 'shortcut' for most of us to develop competency in these areas. If I were in your shoes, I'd do a little research, and then probably go see Scott..

 

[strambo]

Support hand thumb over the back is OK for a revolver but a horribly painful habit to get into for an auto. Better is to just have your support hand thumb on top of the firing hand thumb locking them both down out of the way of the cylinder gap.

I agree with Jeff, first reply nailed it. Get professional instruction and it will be a huge shortcut. Then, you'll know what you need to practice on your own (the majority can be free dry-fire at home).

I have the Surefire shot timer app on my iphone, I think it was free, anyway it works fine for me. If I was a serious competitor I'd spring for a real shot timer.

 

[old lady new shooter]

You may be fairly close to ITTS:

http://www.internationaltactical.com/index.html

I've not had the benefit of training with Scott Reitz, but he has an excellent reputation in the training community, and the folks I know who've had classes with him have been extremely satisfied. His cv can be found on their site.

They have a revolver-specific class in the course list:

http://www.internationaltactical.com/revolver.html

Jeff's advice is very good. Quality training is the 'shortcut' for most of us to develop competency in these areas. If I were in your shoes, I'd do a little research, and then probably go see Scott..

Wow, that sounds perfect! And yes, it is reasonably close, in fact I see their facility is located in the same complex of ranges as where I took the original class.

...

So I just called them. Their private lessons are three hours long and when I said I didn't think I could shoot for three hours straight he said well, part of it is safety instruction etc, it's not all shooting... I asked if it could be split into three one-hour sessions on different days, he said no, their office is not located where the range is. He also said that to be honest he would do his best to convince me to get a semi-automatic and not a revolver, his reasons were the trigger is easier, the gun is easier to manipulate, and if he asks me to hit a target from 50 yards he thinks I could do it with a semi-automatic but not with a revolver.

So to my great disappointment this doesn't sound like it's going to be a fit.

 

[ku4hx]

As Jeff Cooper was known to have said, "You can't miss fast enough to win".

 

[jmorris]

If you want to get fast play gun games. Instructors are there for speed to but most competitive shooters will offer advice for free and you can have some measure of how fast you are as well as improvements. Shot timers are at every match...

 

[GRIZ22]

lemaymiami said it all. Speed will come with practice and repetition.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I found a free shot time app for my iPhone. It's not as nice as a real shot timer but has helped me to,practice against some time pressure.

 

[old lady new shooter]

"So I just called them. Their private lessons are three hours long and when I said I didn't think I could shoot for three hours straight he said well, part of it is safety instruction etc, it's not all shooting... I asked if it could be split into three one-hour sessions on different days, he said no, their office is not located where the range is. He also said that to be honest he would do his best to convince me to get a semi-automatic and not a revolver, his reasons were the trigger is easier, the gun is easier to manipulate, and if he asks me to hit a target from 50 yards he thinks I could do it with a semi-automatic but not with a revolver."

For the record, it was a staff person that I spoke with, not Scott Reitz.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I wouldn't invest the money in a shot timer just yet. Right now the money would be better spent on more professional instruction and practice ammo.

Right now you should concentrate on doing things correctly and smoothly. The speed will come as your execution becomes smoother.

It takes thousands of correct repetitions to develop muscle memory for a task. You get the correct repetitions by starting slow. I like to start with the "by the numbers" technique, where you number each step that you have to perform to successfully make the shot.

For instance, if you are going to start the shot sequence by picking up your weapon from the table, number 1 should be to achieve a firing grip on the weapon with your strong hand.

Number 2 would be to raise the weapon to meet your weak hand mid torso.

Number 3 raise the weapon in a two handed grip into your line of sight.

Number 4 would be to acquire the sight picture.

Number 5 would be to move your finger into the trigger and number 6 press the trigger.

When you start out, actually say the number of this step out loud as you perform it.

Start slow and concentrate on doing it right. Incorrect repetitions undo correct repetitions.

While you can practice this yourself, it's always good to have someone watch you and make corrections until you know what the correct movement looks and feels like.

You can practice this using dry fire.

I can't emphasize enough that it's important to go slow. You want your movements to be smooth.

Louis Awerbuck, one of the best instructors ever to stand behind the line used to say; "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast."

The speed will come as you get smoother.

Do you think it would be helpful to practice each of these steps separately, one at a time?

 

[Jeff White]

Yes it would. I don't know how you plan to carry, the steps I listed in my earlier post were simply examples.

It all starts with the grip. You want to get a good firing grip with your strong hand. It doesn't matter if the weapon is in the table or in a holster, it all starts with the grip.

Unfortunately shooting is not one of those subjects that lends itself to distance learning. While there are some people who could look at pictures in a book or watch a video and become proficient, most of us need to be taught how to do it.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with ITTS. They have an excellent reputation in the training community and I know that in the past they have had female only classes.

For the record, one can shoot a revolver and hit at distances much farther then 50 yards.

A revolver also has a simpler manual of arms then an automatic and is very reliable.

There is nothing wrong with a revolver for defensive use. I carried a revolver as a backup to my primary weapon my entire LE career.

Let me check my sources and see if I can find an instructor in the LA area to recommend.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Yes it would. I don't know how you plan to carry, the steps I listed in my earlier post were simply examples.

It all starts with the grip. You want to get a good firing grip with your strong hand. It doesn't matter if the weapon is in the table or in a holster, it all starts with the grip.

Unfortunately shooting is not one of those subjects that lends itself to distance learning. While there are some people who could look at pictures in a book or watch a video and become proficient, most of us need to be taught how to do it.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with ITTS. They have an excellent reputation in the training community and I know that in the past they have had female only classes.

For the record, one can shoot a revolver and hit at distances much farther then 50 yards.

A revolver also has a simpler manual of arms then an automatic and is very reliable.

There is nothing wrong with a revolver for defensive use. I carried a revolver as a backup to my primary weapon my entire LE career.

Let me check my sources and see if I can find an instructor in the LA area to recommend.

Thanks so much.

I didn't see any point in getting into an argument with the guy from ITTS. It seems like his idea of private instruction is to give his beginner's class, except to one person, whereas what I want is individualized instruction that will help ME become competent with a revolver and make sure I'm selecting the one that best fits me.

Agree 1000% on the grip, that's my biggest problem right now, if you feel up to it check out the thread I made in the revolver section. I think the problem is how to do the support hand, because (to my amazement) I was able to shoot fine with only the strong hand except that my arm got tired from holding the gun out. I want to experiment some now, but first I have to wait for whatever I did to myself following the "grip it as hard as you can" advice to go away.

 

[Bix]

Sorry to hear that it didn't work our, OLNS.

There are some additional recommendations for revolver-specific training in this thread, though they may require some travel:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=756652&highlight=revolver