Mexican Flag Burned in Arizona

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I posted this thread to the Ruger forum, and put some comments of my own there. Don't want to type something new again so I'll just cut and paste here:

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Here's my take on this: No matter how much I dislike the ILLEGAL immigrants(doesn't have to me Mexican), I respect that country as a nation. I believe any country in the world deserves the same respect, Mexico, US, or my old country where I came from. I would have denounced this act of flag burning like some people in that THR thread. BUT, the story was not someone just went and got a flag, and set it ablaze. It was RAISED on a flagpole ABOVE the US flag, on US SOIL. Like other people said, this is a act of insult of our nation. I view it same as the illegals entering without permission, an invasion that is. Doing nothing about it is like treason, I'd torch it myself if it were me...

I'd say to those people that wasn't born here, you're welcome to come and stay here as an invited, respectful guest(like I was), and we'll extend the warmest hospitality. If you want everything we're having, you can elect to join our famility, through legal steps, and enjoy the benifits of a family member. You have to be willing regard yourself as a member of THIS family. That is, you don't just feast on the private Christmas family dinner, or drive around in dad's car that you didn't pay a penny when it was bought, but also when somebody bullied your little sister, you go kick his butt, and may lose a tooth or two in the fight. If you come uninvited, walk into our living room and start spitting and smearing other disgusting stuff on our ancestors' pictures, well, you'd get what you deserved...
 
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"They are recolonizing lands they claim as their own. It's called irredentism."



Actually, after winning Independence from Spain, Mexico did not want anything to do with the Southwest (especially Texas) since the Comanche and Lipan Apaches physically possessed virtually all of it, (all the way down to an area just below the Rio Granded) as late as 1812.

Many people have been misled to believe that somehow, since Spain attempted to establish the Missions Fortresses to try and convert the Indians (Missions they abandoned by the late 1790's) that Mexican Nationals later had a valid claim on the lands of the Southwest.

That is not exactly the case. Both Spain's King Ferdinand and later Mexico's First ruler, Iturbide, wanted Texas colonized by the lower classes as a buffer against Indian depredations.

When the Spaniards were finally gone, Mexico decided to try and colonize the area, for the sole purpose of creating the Frontera, or a buffer zone "front" between them and the Comanches and Apaches, to halt the raids each spring.

Only after Arizpe visited Texas in 1828, and saw the land was not a completely useless desert, did anyone in Mexico's government even realize the Southwest could be made into a productive land. Arizpe saw the North Americans were populating the area much faster than anticipated, and were actually taking large portions away from the Comanches and Apaches.

If anyone has a claim, it is the Comanches and the Apaches. The current "Reconquistadores" movement is based upon extremely poor teaching of history in our schools.

A great source to consider reading, is a book titled "Tejanos & Texas, Under the Mexican Flag, 1821-1836" by Andres Tijerina. It is published by Texas A & M University Press in College Station, Texas.

(I am not trying to be a smart alleck, I am just trying to introduce information that seems to have been bypassed in the argument made by the "Reconquistadores" and a lot of American Colleges history departments)

It is an interesting, eye opening reading when considering the question, who has claim to something they abandoned?

The reconquistidore claims are comparable to a child stumbling across a broken and totally useless toy, looks at it a little while, and discards it since he has no use for it whatsoever.

Then, another kid comes along, and gets interested in fixing it. After fixing it, he starts to use it and sure enough, the first kid comes back and starts kicking and screaming about someone "stealing his toys".

Interestingly, the ownership of land title, (introduced to Tejanos by Spain) is available to anyone today in the Southwest. It just ain't free.
 
It was RAISED on a flagpole ABOVE the US flag, on US SOIL. Like other people said, this is a act of insult of our nation.
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Your being too kind. This kind of act is forbidden during peace time.

When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace. http://www.wi.net/flag.html
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It would appear that putting the Mexican Flag above an upside down U.S. Flag should be considered an act of war.:fire:


BTW, this is my first post here, some of you may recognize me from the firing line:D
 
Warning Off topic wisecrack


Hey Fink why would you trailer your bike for 30 mi. if you just want to take it to a garage a block away??:neener: :neener:

What does rain have to do with putting a motorcycle on a trailer?
 
Give enough rope to the yoyo's that are marching and proclaiming the taking of part of The United States and turning it into Mexico, and they will hang themselves- These invaders, and that is most certainly what they are, don't have enough brains to not wake up a sleeping giant- Historically this country has always united when threatened from an outside source that is easily identified- I hope these Mexican radicals go all the way and get really pushy, because that will be their demise, for they will light the spark that will ignite the American populace to demand corrective action to the illegal immigration problem from Washington- Hildebeast and her cronies will run for cover and try to put a spin on their recent attempts to semi legalize illegals- This could work out just right, and we can thank the illegals for being incredibly stupid for solving our problem for us-
 
Turkey Creek:
You know what is interesting. It really isn't the Illegal Aliens claiming all this "reconquistadores" BS.

It is the left wing revisionist history socialists, that will do anyting to try and antagonize Americans.

The illegals are mainly just here wanting to work. But the pencil necked college elitists have managed to make almost three quarters of the population believe in a total myth. And they are making people angry at illegals, and the instigators are at the damndable Universities and High Schools we pay for, telling the kids that you, me, and every other Anglo, is a jerk, including themselves.

That's how you get all the bleeding hearts talking about how "ashamed" they are of their history, and most of it comes out of Berkley and the other professional complainers in Hollywood.
 
Turkey Creek:
You know what is interesting. It really isn't the Illegal Aliens claiming all this "reconquistadores" BS.

It is the left wing revisionist history socialists, that will do anyting to try and antagonize Americans.

The illegals are mainly just here wanting to work. But the pencil necked college elitists have managed to make almost three quarters of the population believe in a total myth. And they are making people angry at illegals, and the instigators are at the damndable Universities and High Schools we pay for, telling the kids that you, me, and every other Anglo, is a jerk, including themselves.

That's how you get all the bleeding hearts talking about how "ashamed" they are of their history, and most of it comes out of Berkley and the other professional complainers in Hollywood.
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Not entirely. There are a lot of propagandists, including those in the Mexican government, pitching this line, not just leftist "intellectuals" in either country.

And the pro-illegal "raza" types in Spanish language media here--not exactly intellectuals--are pushing this too.

This is "somos carnales" ethnos-binding stuff.
 
"Por La Raza Todo, Fuera de La Raza Nada"

How dare anyone demand that american citizens tolerate
this hatred coming from the south?

Mexico defends its southern borders from illegal immigrants, WITH THEIR ARMY!
Why is it so unfair that we expect our borders and laws to be respected?

Come legally as a friend, and I welcome you with warm regard.
Come as a criminal, hostile, invading horde and you deserve to be repelled
with force and violence.

Don't tear down my flag, IN MY COUNTRY, and I won't burn yours.


--Travis--
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+1, Amen and kudos. I couldn't have said it better myself.

What upsets me is not just that burning the flag shows lack of respect for our neighbors to the south. What upsets me is that it makes me feel that they are trying to express their hatred of not just illegal immigrants, but of Mexico itself. Maybe hatred not just of Mexico but of Mexicans. And that upsets me.
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You mean like they first disrespected my nation and people? The nation and people they sneaked into like criminals in the night for refuge, to use our resources at our expense? If Mexicans dwelling illegally in the United States blantantly disrespect my country and show their hated and utter disregard for its laws and sovereignty, then they should not expect my sympathy when they are in turn hated and disrespected.

If they are so proud of their country that they wish to fly their flag over mine, they can leave my country and go to theirs. But tearing down the American flag, advocating violent take over, and parading in American streets with Mexican flags is not the proper course of action to take if you want a warm welcome.

If you can show enough respect to enter this country legally, respect our laws, sovereignty, and traditions, and become a legal, upstanding citizen and contributing member of society, then I and most Americans will welcome you with open arms. We will fight and bleed alongside of you as an American to protect your rights as an American and a human being. But you must show enough respect first of my country and of me to come here the right way and do the right thing, and you must identify yourself first as an American and secondly as a Mexican. Otherwise, you are and always will be a criminal and a foreign invader and you will and should rightly so be loathed and treated as such.
 
ElTacoGrande,

We have people around here who fly non-US flags in front of their homes. Nobody takes offense. You just flew a Mexican flag in your post, nobody cared. That is your space, you are free to do as you want with it. We do not go around invading other people's spaces however. For example, if you edited my post to add anything there I would be offended. If my neighbor plants a flag in my yard I would be offended.

It's not about the nationality of the flag, it's how it is used.

That flag at that school was trespassing. Burning was not disrepectful. It is in fact one of the few officially respectful procedures to dispose of our own national flag.
 
There is a precise legal term for taking down a sovereign nation's flag and replacing it with another.

It's called "An Act of War."

There's another precise legal term for citizens defending this action.

It's called "Treason."

If you doubt either, you need to read your history lessons again.
 
How many of you grey hairs out there are getting a sense of deja vue all over again.

The well planned widely dispersed demonstrations make me nostalgic for 1967 when the same stuff was going on. Hint: next phase is widespread but lowkey violence.
 
Let a group of people, speeeking anti-american crap
and waving a foriegn flag, come down some of these
dirt roads where myself and a lot of other good ol' boys
live and watch the SHTF. Tired of people from other
nations telling us how we should live and what we are
allowed to have. Keep trying to step on us and we will
put you in a world of shi*. BEWARE OF THE SLEEPING GIANT
 
Why should I respect their flag?

:barf: If you expect other people to respect our flag, and everything it stands for, we should respect other nation's flags.

Romans 12:19:
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord.

Matthew 7:12:
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

It scares me how much New Testamant I know, being Jewish.

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Why should I respect their flag? Most of Mexico I have seen (and that is a lot) is not much more than a sespool. The gov is corrupt. The police are corrupt. Their people are... Well let's just stop there for now.

Mexican flags belong in MEXICO, not Arizona!

If I fly my flag on their soil they should take it down and burn it. Do unto other works just fine for me on this one.

Burn their sticking flag and send them packing south. I am sick and darn tired of non-english speaking wets filling up the emergency rooms, school rooms, etc around here. They don't pay their way and they thumb their collective noses at us.
 
Quote:
there's hardly a legal issue burning someone elses.


Certainly it's legal. Certainly it's legitimate free expression.

What upsets me is not just that burning the flag shows lack of respect for our neighbors to the south. What upsets me is that it makes me feel that they are trying to express their hatred of not just illegal immigrants, but of Mexico itself. Maybe hatred not just of Mexico but of Mexicans. And that upsets me.

They would be called KKK or Nazis or whatever if they were burning efigees of Mexicans, so they can't do that, but I get the same feeling from it.

Of course that's just me; maybe they love Mexico and Mexicans and are delighted to have legal Mexican immigrants, and all they are doing by burning the Mexican flag is just expressing legimate concern about illegal aliens. Could be!
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Don't get your fellings all hurt there Big Taco!

I have lot's of friends that are many colors. But NONE of them is african-american, mexican-american, asian-american, etc. Get my drift? They are all AMERICANS period just like me!

If you our anyone else wants to be FROM Mexico that's just great. Once they get here LEGALLY they should go to work on those citizenship papers like the law says and BE AN AMERICAN.

But, if anyone wants to commit a crime by swiming the river or hopping a fence to get here, join Laraza (sp?), threaten to take back the southwest, and fly any flag other than the Stars and Stripes then there IS going to be a problem!:banghead:
 
Quote from Standing Wolf

"Signing peace treaties with the great white father tends to have long term repercussions, some of which make warefare look positively fun."


Dear Standing Wolf:

Yes sir, the United States didn't keep their word much, but then again neither side kept many promises during the Indian wars. But regarding the Comanches, not many treaties were actually agreed to for the U.S. to break with them, since they preferred to fight.

They did make one major formal agreement that I recall, which was to bring in all captives held by the Comanches in Central and Northern Texas to the "Council House" meeting in San Antonio in May, 1840.

They only brought in one captive though, which was Matilda Lockhart since she was to be traded for goods.

She had not been adopted by any of "The People" like Cynthia Ann Parker, and she suffered some pretty hideous wounds during her captivity. Most of her nose was burned down to the bone so the Texans were kind of hacked off at the first sight of her injuries and the meeting got off to a bad start.

(The Comanche enjoyed tying victims down and stuffing burning coals up their nostrils. Matilda's cousin, Rachel Plummer who was found a few years later, suffered even more horribly after having the flesh of her feet cut down to the bone, so she would not run away)

When asked where the other fifteen captives were, Muk-wah-ruh of the Peneteka Comanche Band told the interpreter he did not have them and they "were now with other bands that refused to come in."

He then made the mistake of asking the interpreter, the question (which started the famous Council House fight) " How did he like the answer ???"

The Texan interpreter relayed the statement verbatim, and that is when the fight broke out, and about fifteen Indians and seven Texans were killed in the running battle down what is now Commerce Street in downtown San Antonio. The Texans captured about thirty Comanches, and held them for a while, but most escaped over time.

But not many treaties were agreed to with Comanches for the Great White Father to break, since the Comanches pretty much fought the Rangers and later the U.S. Cavalry until the last bands finally surrendered with Quanah Parker after the last big battle, which was the one at Adobe Walls.

It was a horrible time indeed for both sides.
 
Yes the topic is of interest to many people. That doesn'tnecessarily translate to THR material.

There's been enough harumphing, here. If you want to continue, take it to APS.

Art
 
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