Michael Moore and the Illusion of Civilization

[Stand_Watie]

You know what I find kind of funny Iapetus, Moore seemed to be a bit of a hero to many English I've seen on message boards - until he opened his mouth and started in about UK issues like N. Ireland - then it was obvious to them what an idiot he is.

Funny how a little perspective can change things.

Something to keep in mind when you watch Michael Moore compare Canada and the US on guns, the portions of the US that are demographically similar to Canada (IE Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Vermont and Maine) have similar (in some instances lower) homicide and violent crime rates than the ajacent areas of Canada- despite having much less gun control, and it being much easier legally to carry a gun.

 

[Mark Tyson]

I don't know what the person responding to your essay was trying to prove. Owning guns, carrying guns, or locking your doors do not constitute paranoia or crippling fear. Locking your doors just makes sense in this country. Moore's the one who is fear mongering, portraying the vast, peaceful body of gun owners as paranoid, irresponsible lunatics poised to explode in a bout of homicidal rage.

So I choose to try to live up to the best of
what's possible rather than to lug a gun everywhere with me, since
lugging that gun in this place will contribute primarily to dragging the
environment down to a lower level of civility and pleasingness, while
being entirely ineffective in actually stopping me from being killed
(since something is going to kill me, one way or another)."

That's just ignorant. What he's saying is that the mere presence of guns destroys civility and "pleasingness"(whatever the hell that is). Guns destroy civilization? Nonsense. In plenty of parts of America people carry guns around with them regularly and the people around them do not give them a second thought. And I suppose since he's going to die anyway he doesn't wear a seatbelt or motorcycle helmet. Get real.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Some of the finest places to find a maximilitude of pleasingness are open carry states. In hunting camps, where everyone is armed, pleasingness is self-evidentiaryable.

As Bugs would say "What a Muhroon!"

 

[Mulliga]

So, do you choose to live in terror, like a hairy savage dragging his
club everywhere with him and so hoping to fight off destruction until
the very last minute? It's a choice, and and in some parts of the world
it's a pretty sensible one, right now. But it's not the only choice, or
even the only sensible choice.

So all gun owners are hairy savages? If you ask me, Mikey Moore is more a hairy savage than we are...

Seriously, though, for most gun owners, having a gun brings peace of mind and happiness. Why do others have to intrude on this? Can they not have peace while we are still armed?...

 

[freewheeling]

I probably disagree on a subtle level with the original poster on this thread, because I don't think Michael Moore is essentially "pro-civilization." But having said that, I need to remark that the level of civility on this forum is light years beyond that found on places like "The Democratic Underground" and similar "Marxisant Left" forums. The threads on the 2nd Amendment and on Pacifism, in which I participated, were marvelous. I don't think you ought to minimize civilization all that much, because I think you folks possess its essential character.

BTW, if you want to read my take on MM (and I hate to use that abbreviation, because it's a sort of sacrilege of Marilyn Monroe) you can scrounge it up at

http://www.demosophia.com/2003/09/the_whining_clo.html

and more importantly

http://www.demosophia.com/2003/09/michael_moores_.html

in which I comment on how Moore "wasn't even in the ballpark," sociologically speaking.

 

[Stealth101]

I think the one thing to remember is that having a gun isnt about being paranoid, its about having a choice! Those without guns, will not be able to defend themselves from tyranny, or from attack.....they have no choice!
We Do!

 

[Travis McGee]

Michael Moore is a fat blowhard with an "intellect" on the level of Al Franken. His vision of "civilization" is to be a placidly grazing sheep, trusting in the good graces of Big Shepherd in the form of a socialist government.

But he can't think as far as wolves entering the fold when Big Shepherd is unable to help, or as far as Big Shepherd morphing into Hitler, Stalin or Mao.

In either case, the unarmed sheep is slaughtered with ease while it bleats helplessly.

The armed citizen is not a sheep, and I think that frightens Moore.