Michigan: Husbands, wifes and "safety inspection" of pistols.

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Trebor

I can see that might work for a one time deal, but not something to allow practical "sharing" of a handgun. Also, although I have never seen it written I always thought it was implied that you must have the pistol inspected/registered prior to firing/carrying it.

My most recent purchase the officer doing the inspection was stewing over the fact that it appeared to have been fired once. He didn't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that manufacturers fire the gun and supply the spent cartridge.


Barbara
Thanks for the information. I'll try and make it there, I should be able to.
 
Ha! Don't complain: I live in Hillsdale. Everything is an hour and half away.

Heck, we still have hitching posts. And they get used.
 
I can see that might work for a one time deal, but not something to allow practical "sharing" of a handgun.
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It's a workaround sure, but it's designed to give the spouse some legal proof of ownership in the event ownership is questioned, like in a traffic stop. How would the PD know if this was the first or fiftieth time this was done?

Like I said, if a wife (for example) is going to routinely carry her husband's handgun, just go ahead and transfer it to the wife and have her get the green card in her name. But, if the wife just wants to take the gun to the range by herself, or carry it for a couple days for whatever reason (trying it out, her gun is broken, etc), this would work. It's clumsy, but it's better then just borrowing the pistol with no paperwork.

Also, although I have never seen it written I always thought it was implied that you must have the pistol inspected/registered prior to firing/carrying it.
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There is nothing in Michigan law that says that, and I've looked.

My most recent purchase the officer doing the inspection was stewing over the fact that it appeared to have been fired once. He didn't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that manufacturers fire the gun and supply the spent cartridge.
Click to expand...

There are many cops who don't know the law or try to add "restrictions" to the law that don't really exist. There is nothing in the law that says you have to have it inspected before you fire it. Sorry if the cop didn't like it, but he was wrong.

The only restrictions on "safety inspections" is that they be done within 10 days of purchase if you use a purchase permit. I still try to do mine within 10 days for purchases using a RI 60, but the language in the law regarding RI 60 doesn't require that the "safety inspection" be done within 10 days, just that it be done in a "reasonable" amount of time. Ask any cop though, and they'll tell you it still has to be done within 10 days.

Another common belief is that you HAVE to have the green card with you when you have your gun. That is nowhere in the law and you aren't even required legally to even keep the green card after you get the "safety inspection" completed. Ask almost any cop though, and they'll tell you you have to have the green card. If you don't and you get pulled over, they are likely to confiscate the pistol until you can prove ownership. That's why I reccomend you carry the green card, even though it's not required. You should know that carrying the green card is "Above and beyond" what is required by law and make your own decision to carry it or not, not merely carry it because you think you have to legally. (There's a difference between doing something because you think it will save you some unjustified hassles down the road and doing something because you think you HAVE to do it legally. For instance, I would never carry without my CPL, because I know that is illegal, but I will carry without my green card, because I know it is legal and even if it causes me a hassle down the road, I'm not actually violating the law)
 
For this reason i have my green cards laminated so whatever Gun i carry i dont have to worry about wearing the green card or having any hassel if i get stopped etc etc

If you buy a gun on your Cpl they told us to try and get it inspected within 30days

This is all the stuff the cops giving the class for cpl told us 2 are current cops here in westland
 
So, basically you have New York's "Sullivan Law" in disguise?
Does it stop Detroit gang members from murdering each other? If not, exercise your political muscle and get rid of after the next election.get rid of it.
 
i would liek to get rid of it thats for sure but dont bet on it they try to model here after NY or PRK.. Some one needs to slap um with class action suit to speed stuff up
 
So, basically you have New York's "Sullivan Law" in disguise?
Does it stop Detroit gang members from murdering each other? If not, exercise your political muscle and get rid of after the next election.get rid of it.
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It's not as bad as NY's Sullivan Law because the process generally isn't abused (too much) and getting a pistol permit and "safety inspection" is a minor nuisance in most cases. Still, the potential for abuse is there and there have been cases of abuse in the past. The history of the law is racist as well, as it was passed in 1927 to keep guns out of the hands of blacks and other "undesirables" after a black physician defended his family with a handgun from a mob outside their family home.

Personally, I'd love to get rid of the whole "purchase permit" and "Safety inspection" procedure, but there hasn't been the political will to do so among the gun rights advocacy groups in the states, and now that MCRGO has been hijacked, I don't see much hope for any serious legislation being passed in the near future. Hopefully, one of the new gun groups in the state will pick up the banner and become the force that MCRGO used to be.
 
Here's hoping. We need to get it together soon.

Still, most of various off-shoots are working together cooperatively through SAFR for legislative stuff and that's good to see..even if there is a lot of distrust because of all the stuff that's happened, we all know what's important when it comes down to it.
 
My most recent purchase the officer doing the inspection was stewing over the fact that it appeared to have been fired once. He didn't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that manufacturers fire the gun and supply the spent cartridge.
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Barbara,

Before you buy, you have to get a green "permission to purchase" the pistol. After that you have about 10 days to buy it and get it to the station to have it inspected. Are we supposed to not shoot it in that period? I never heard of that.

If it appears to be fired, I'd be stewing over the fact that you didn't clean the gun very well. Dissin' a new gun like that! :)

Before the inspection, you could always dip the whole gun in a pot of warm cosmoline. "to protect the metal". Inspectors really like mass quantities of cosmoline.

Regards.
 
What i think is funny when they inspect it and ask you about it becuse there to cheep to buy one My Hk is a fine point all i head was oooo ahhh and i think everyone that was in the station fondeled it
 
I'd (kinda) like to see a gun blow up on someone right after a safety inspection and have that person sue the state. Has anything remotely like that ever happened in MI?
 
answerguy

It may be called a SAFETY INSPECTION CERTIFICATE, but all it really does is confirm that you are the rightful owner and that is has been registered with Michigan State Police. Here is another quote from back of the green card: "A cursory inspection has been made of this pistol presented. A check for operational or mechanical defects has not been made"

The green card process ensures gun registration, not anyone's safety.
 
Treber posted
"now that MCRGO has been hijacked"

How, What happened, Who is in charge now???
 
I got the official clear as mud legal opinion on this question from Jim Simmons, Attorney at Law and gun nut:

Hi, Barb:

Well, that's one interpretation, but it conflicts with 28.422(1), and the definition of "purchase" from which "loan" was deleted in 2000 PA 381. To be on the safe side, I suppose one might have to avoid "borrowing" a pistol without getting an inspection, but if someone got charged, I'd work hard to make the argument that a loan is now permitted.

Jim
-----Original Message-----
Wrom: SFDULHPQQWOYIYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKED
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:29 AM
To: 'James Simmons'
Subject: Firearms question


Does this mean that one cannot borrow a firearm without transferring it?

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,...10953--,00.html

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCL 28.429 Although the word "loan" was taken out of the definition of seller and purchaser, the safety inspection section of the statutes did not change. That law requires that anyone that owns or comes into possession of a pistol must present it to his or her local police agency for safety inspection. Failure to have the pistol safety inspected is a misdemeanor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

So, there you go. We're back where we started. I had always understood the law the way Jim explained it but hadn't seen the MSP interpretation until this thread.
 
An easy (But maybe not legal) workaround is to take the gun in to where it was safety inspected, and pay them the $5 and "sell" (Transfer) the pistol to your wife.
At that point, you basically have 2 safety cards, and if the police see a green "safety" card in your name, and your driver's liscense matches it, they are bound to think "legal" and not follow up on it.
At that point , your wife would be "legal", and you wouldn't really be legal, but you would have a safety card in your name, and I really don't think the police would be running down the paperwork to find out who really "owns" it, unless there were other concerns, or have cause to believe there was a discrepancy, like them seeing both cards at once (Gulp!).
Then I guess you could still explain it away like, "I transferred it to her, and never got around to tearing up my card", which would work, as long as she physically had it, or it was locked in a case in the trunk, and she was in the vehicle with you.
Even as such, if no laws were broken, the police see law-abiding citizens trying to comply with a law that wasn't designed to allow for shared ownedship. (Still doesn't sound like a good idea in retrospect!!)
At that point it would be up to the officer on site.
It would still be a much better idea to transfer the gun to her, and if you liked the gun so much, buy another like it.

The wording of the law is that borrowing or loaning out a pistol requires a legal transfer, just like you did when you bought it.

I have no idea how "rentals" would be done in michigan, and that may have something to do with the fact that I have never personally see rental facilities at any of my local ranges.

Your mileage may vary, but please don't take this as legal advice, as the prosecutor may offer a dissenting opinion, and theirs is the one that counts.

Keep in mind that most gun violations may take away your legal right to CCW (At very least), so the cost of another gun isn't really that much, when compared being held in violation of the law, or being lawfully denied the ability to enjoy a hobby you previously loved.

Clear as mud.
I really think the whole registration (Oops, safety inspection) law was *designed* to prevent shared ownership, and trying to get around it is really, really a bad idea.
My .02
 
The only Safe way no hassel way around this i see is to just buy another pistol even if it is same make and model..

If thats the case you can always try out that to handed shooting ya always wanted to do :)
 
Definetly agree that trying to work around this is a mistake. Being in possesion of a handgun that you do not own could land you in jail, cause permanent loss of the gun and even your CPL. Also ownership would be determined by running the serial number in the MSP database not by any paperwork or green card.

As far as renting goes this is no problem, you just can't leave the range with it. I'm curious what area you are in because every local range I have been to has rental handguns.
 
I never said that it was a good workaround.
I wouldn't recommend it on a gun you plan to use in self defense.
I mean that your wife could carry it, because she's legal to, and you could shoot it at the range, and get your practice in.
I'm just saying that if the police happen to be at the range where you're at, and want to see the gun you're shooting, you will at least appear legal at first glance.
And in reality, an otherwise law-abiding citizen with no obvious body in the trunk has little to fear from the average police he would have occasion to meet on the street.
The only way to assure compliance of the law it to comply.
Anyway, SW michigan, Grand Rapids area.
Grew up just down the street from the GigaBuist.

Chances are, if the police have reason to run your guns, or search your vehicle, you prolly have other problems.
 
Interesting

I'm a Michigan resident, but being in the Marine Corps, I haven't actually lived in Michigan in over 15 years. As such, I've never had to deal with Michigan gun law. I was very intrigued by this thread, as I had no idea you needed a "safety inspection" for your handguns. Since I claim Michigan residency, should I bring my handguns during my next visit and have them "inspected"? It'll probably give the officer a heart attack when I walk in with my 14 handguns and ask for the "inspection"!;)

This is a rhetorical questions, but - why would anyone need a state "safety inspection" for a handgun; especially on new purchases? Also, what would qualify an officer to "inspect" any firearm? Do they have to be certified as "inspectors"? Do they charge for this "service"? My impression is this is just another registration scheme, yes?:mad:

I have concealed carry licenses for Virginia (where I live now), and North Carolina (where I was before VA); would it seem likely I can get a license in Michigan? Anyone know where to go on the web to find info on the licensing process?

Thanks!:D
 
bradvanhorn

They do not charge for this "inspection" and yes it's really registration not safety inspection. I wouldn't think you would have to register your guns until you actually bring them into the state but you should verify that for yourself.

While Michigan recognizes all permits from other states this does not apply to Michigan residents. A Michigan resident must have a Michigan permit to legally carry while in Michigan.

You can find a lot of information about the CCW laws at the Michigan State Police website.

Packing.org is also a great source of information for all states.

Oh yeah, welcome to THR:D
 
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