Micro-Mauser Musings

[Scrumbag]

Hello folks,

Am looking at getting a .22CF and given I have all my other rifles as Mauser actions with safeties on the bolt, I'd like something similar.

I have:

Brno Mod - 1 in .22lr
Need .22cf here
Voere M98 in 7x64
FN Commercial in 9.3x62

So, for me need: am thinking a:

CZ 527 in .222 or .223 (problem is safety is on stock)
Zastava in the same (same issue, also Remington 798)
Or should I get a Voere or Winchester M70 in .22-250?

.22-250 is a nice round but don't get to use the inexpensive .223 the club gets.

So folks, I welcome your musings and thank you in advance for your wisdom.

ATB,

Scrummy

 

[Jackal]

CZ527 all day long. The CZ is by far the best Mini Mauser available. I had one in .223 that would shoot anything well. Even Wolf/Tula was just slightly over 1moa. With a good load it would shoot tacks off the target (hey, after the bullseyes are gone, gotta shoot something). Problem with other brands of Mini Mauser's is the horrid bolt bind they suffer from when it the full out position (which CZ has fixed by adding length to the rear receiver as a guide).

 

[Willie Sutton]

Score the CZ and then add another really nice .22 to fill out the collection.

Look for a MAS-45, and if you are lucky you can find one with the Mauser Banner on the receiver. These were French .22 Mausers and are excellent in every way. Look them up. Many were imported as brand new surplus in the 1980's by Navy Arms. They are absolutely magnificent rifles.


Willie

.

 

[Scrumbag]

Interesting thoughts folks.

Any experience of the .223AI? Can one shoot regular .223 / 5.56 through a rifle chambered in such?

KR,

Scrummy

 

[pikid89]

AFAIK, all the Ackley Imporved Cartridges only need fire forming from the regular factory load, so, Id say yes, you can use regular .223

 

[meanmrmustard]

I'm a Zastava fan. While not quite as "pretty" as the CZ, it'll do anything it can, wearing a lower price tag.

 

[ErieLurker]

While I'd be inclined towards the CZ 527 in .223, a Winchester 70 in .22-250 would round out your Mauser collection rather nicely.

 

[greyling22]

I"d steer clear of zastava. I have a charles daly mini-mauser that I bought as a barreled action, added a nice wood stock that took forever to make, then had issues with the follower binding and needing to be beveled, lack of customer support and spare parts (needed action screw, no importer at the time, now there is an importer, but they importer has changed every 3 years for the last decade. scary scary) the gun's action, while nicely blued, is rough, oversprung, and has a very sloppy bolt throw. My left hand version was hard to scope (bolt handle clearance, but nobody else seems to be complaining) and the current stocks are garbage. Well, the finish is garbage, they could be made better if somebody took the time to moved beyond the 2 coats of oil the factory applied to 180 grit sanded wood.

That said, mine was cheap, has a nicely adjustable trigger, is fairly accurate, and has some of the best blueing I have seen on a gun.

I saw a sako vixen that somebody had put in a custom curly maple stock one time. It was super sexy. Ths guy http://edlapourgunsmithing.com/3-position-safeties/sako-vixen/ will put a 3 position safety on your vixen. But at that point you might should have gotten a ruger m77 compact in 223.

on 223AI: about halfway down here http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html there is a comparison betewwn 223 and 223ai. I keep thinking I might ream mine out to 223AI, but then I start thinking about rebarreling to 300 whisper and then the cost and then stay with 223....... BUT I have a 257ackley. modern sharper shoulder, more case life, a little more punch, easy to make the brass by firing a 257 roberts case in the chamber and fire forming it to ackley. It's pretty affordable to rent a reamer. Less than 50 bucks. http://www.reamerrentals.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=223Ack.f
http://www.4-dproducts.com/displayitem.php?rowid=29&tname=rental

let me know how it turns out. I might do it.

 

[Jackal]

greyling22, funny you should mention the Charles Daly (aka Zastava). I had one I purchased new in 7.62x39, the one with the high gloss walnut stock that CDNN was selling a few years ago. The polyurethane finish had bubbles, the action would bind with the bolt fully retracted and its the only rifle I have ever owned that would pattern, not group. Now matter what ammo (tried 6 or 7 different kinds, brass and steel) and 2 different "known to be good" scopes, it would barely pattern at 50 yards. I'm talking 4 inch groups at 50, aka about 8 MOA. Clearly the rifle had problems and with the status of the importer being shut down, warranty work was MIA. Needless to say I sold it for a big loss (informed the buyer what was wrong) and moved on. I replaced it with a CZ 527 and proceeded to put tiny groups on paper at 100 yards with almost every load I tried. Live and learn.

 

[BruceB]

My Mini-Mauser is marked "Interarms MkX", and has no country of origin indicated. I do believe it's a Zastava, though.

The safety is a sliding 3-position type at the right rear of the bolt, not mounted on the bolt itself.

When new, the bolt was a mess.... binding badly on both opening and closing strokes. After MANY cycles and some judicious stoning, along with a thousand rounds or so of live-firing, it's quite acceptable. The trigger is superb, breaking crisply at two pounds.

I mounted a Leupold VXII 3-9X sight, and with my handloaded Hornady 55s it groups right at one inch for five at 100 yards.... this is rather good for a skinny-barreled light rifle with full-power ammunition, (3200 fps) , in my book.

I paid $390 for the rifle at the Big Reno Show a few years ago.... I think it was a good buy.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I had a lefty Zasatava (Charles Daly) .223 & sold it to get my CZ lefty 527 .223. I'll take the CZ any day of the week & twice on Sunday. The bolt control in the CZ action is simply 100% better than it was in the Zastava.

900F

 

[Scrumbag]

Hi fellas, thanks for all the input so far. Sounds like CZ is till a winner but I would like to find out if I could get a Win Model 70 type 3 position safety on it. Anyone know if this is possible?

I also forgot about Ruger M77s: Worth a look?

And another thing, I searched through Winchester's site and found a lot of no longer produced Model 70 .223s (but all with heavy barrels in one form or another). Surely they would sell a M70 in .223 these days? Or am I missing something?

Also, in terms of drooling, I noticed Kimber do a .223 in a Mauser action with a Mod. 70 type safety. Anyone had a play with one of these? (Kinda Pricey though!)

ATB,

Scrummy

 

[rule303]

The new M77 Hawkeyes are really nice. The triggers and stock profile are greatly improved over the old tang safety and MKII models, plus the 3 position M70 like safety.

 

[greyling22]

my boss is a big hunter and has had a lot of guns over the years. A while back he sold most of them. He kept a benelli shotgun, a remington in .270, and a ruger m77 compact in 223, laminate and stainless. It is his go-to rifle and has killed a mess of hogs and deer. I like it. It's not very light, but it's built like a tank, has nice lines, and is reasonable accurate. 2" at 100yds with whatever random bullets he had in a zip-lock baggie that his redneck buddy had given him.

 

[Scrumbag]

Thanks folks, certainly one to consider. Am wondering about the laminate compact actually. Looks hard wearing. If the stock stiff enough for a bipod do you reckon?

ATB,

Scrumbag

 

[DRYHUMOR]

There was a nice M70 Sporter in 223 on GB recently, been a few compacts and lightweights as well. Fair prices.

If you want AI, you can always rebarrel.....

 

[CB900F]

Scrumbag;

To go to an A/I version of a cartridge usually only involves a reaming of the existing chamber, not a rebarrel. Consult your gunsmith in any case, but I believe I'm correct in that. There should be no problem with a Ruger laminate stock supporting the gun on a bipod.

900F

 

[targetshooter22]

+1 CZ 527, I've got the Varmint model with a walnut stock and like it a lot. Sticking with .223/5.56 makes ammo availability easy. When I was looking at other options, the Ruger 77 trigger wasn't as good. I really wanted the "mini mauser" action, so the options were pretty limited.

FWIW, if you plan to shoot a lot in a given session, the heavy barrel of the "Varmint class" rifles might be better than the lighter "field" guns.

 

[greyling22]

laminate stocks are super stiff and strong.

It is my understanding that an ackley reaming usually involves reaming AND setting the barrel back a bit. Reamers are cheap, but I don't know about adjusting barrels that don't have a barrel nut. That sounds like gunsmithing, and that's not cheap.

 

[Scrumbag]

Thanks folks. Increasingly looking like it'll be a CZ (they are just much easier to get over here in Switzerland).

Just a question of:

American
Varmint or Varmint laminate

Thanks for your input folks, now just a question of a scope for it...

Scrummy

 

[greyling22]

What is your application? hunting? range run? I ask because you can get the 527 synthetic over there that is a kilo lighter than the varmint laminate and sure would be easier to pack around if you are hunting. If it's going to the range it doesn't matter.

As I mentioned previously, I have a zastava mini-mauser with a 20" thin barrel, and it will group the first 3 shots nice and tight, but 4 and 5 and more will wander around up to 2" in all directions if I let the barrel get hot. With a heavier barrel you should have less of that issue, but again, weight if you are hunting with it.

Scopes: google will be of immense help to you here, but it seems that a lot of people have issues with bolt handle clearance on the cz's. I'm pretty sure general concensus is to buy the high CZ rings, and I would look for a scope with a small/narrow rear ocular bell. Something like leupold or weaver, and avoid some of the bigger chunkier ones like nikon has been putting out lately. (the scope statement has nothing to do with the merits of the optical quality of the scope and only deals with the physical dimensions. I am not in any way trying to recommend a best scope. That way lies madness and forum arguing)

 

[Scrumbag]

Thanks Greyling. Lots to muse on. Am considering the American version due to the faster twist rate. Scope wise I think I have found something 3-9x36 that will do it.

The thing is, the rifle will mostly be a range gun and I'll shoot out to 300m. But, I want it to replicate my hunting rifles which are sporters...

Decisions decisions....

 

[25cschaefer]

Ed Lapour has bolt safeties for CZ 500s and BRNO ZKK, one might fit or he might be able to make you one.

 

[Scrumbag]

Thanks for the heads up on the safety!

 

[CB900F]

Scrumbag;

I'm using an older (no longer in the product line) Nikon Monarch 3.3-10X A/O mil-dot on my 527 American .223. Currently it's in the CZ rings, but I'm probably going to go to a set of Talley lightweights to get the thing down a bit. There's about 6mm of room to do so both with the bolt and barrel clearances.

I don't find 10X to be too low a magnification at the range, but then I'm not in competition or engaging in any betting games either. I do find the mil-dot reticle to be ideal when using the gun for varmint/predator shooting. Coyotes at 300 yards are not an issue, well maybe the coyotes have an issue, but I'm happy.

900F