Microgroove rifling

[Testy1]

Hello All.

New guy here but have been lurking for a while and really admire the forums. I have just bought a Marlin .22 Model 60SSK in stainless and got to thinking about the whole "microgroove rifling" thing. Does anyone know of some objective evidence that this is superior or even equal to standard rifling? Marlin claims it's better but doesn't show any evidence of it.
On another note, the crown of the muzzle seems to have some kind of fiberglass insert in it. Does anyone know what this is? The rifle shoots OK but doesn't seem as accurate as it might be. Maybe just the operator.

Thanks and all the best

Testy1

 

[M1key]

Marlin Microgroove rifling works fine in 22LR and most other calibers...

Try different ammo. Most rifles show a preference for one type or brand over another.

 

[WNTFW]

Testy1,
At some point bulk pack .22lr is only so good.

Not sure on the crown appearing fglass. Mine is recessed.

 

[Testy1]

WNTFW & M1key

Thanks for this. I've tried several brands of ammo but haven't seen much difference in the accuracy. Again, that may just be the shooter. I just need to get out on the range or the woods and practice more.

Thanks again

Testy1

 

[M1key]

What size groups and what distance? Irons or scope? Off-hand or bench? What ammo have you tried so far?

I can usually find some rifle/ammo/sights/scope combo that will get me 1 inch or less groups at 50 yards.

With wind, all bets are off.

 

[Testy1]

M1key

I've used Blazer bulk ammo and some Italian match ammo a friend lent me. At 50 yards the group is all over the paper. The match ammo was a bit better but still nothing to brag about. Shooting was done from a bench and the wind was very small, less than 10 mph. So far, I've only been using iron sights but am thinking that I need some kind of cheap optics. Any recommendations?

Regards

Testy

 

[M1key]

Try a box of Federal Gold Medal Match, just for kicks. It's pricey, but it should at least give you some indication of accuracy of the rifle (if the shooter does his part).

I stockpile CCI Mini-mag solids and hps, CCI Stingers, and Winchester Power Points. These all shoot 1 inch or less @50yds out of a Ruger 10-22, CZ 452 Varmint, and Marlin bolt action with the aforementioned Microgroove rifling.

Scope? A decent 3-9x or even a 4x should get you in the game. I wouldn't pay any more than $50-$75 or so...maybe a Tasco Buckhorn, low end Bushnell, etc. I don't like any of the BSAs. Too heavy for a 22, IMO.

 

[Testy1]

M1key

Thanks, I'll give those a try and see how they work. I'll try that low-end scope as well. I've shot quite a bit but for some reason always stuck with iron sights so this'll be something new for me.

Thanks again

Testy

 

[Deus Machina]

Not sure if the microgroove style makes any difference, but my Marlin will shoot well under an inch with Winchester Dynapoint HT's at 50 yards, if I do my point.

Liking my cheap rimfire 3-9x Bushnell so far, too. Before that, I had good luck with those cheapie 20mm Tasco's on a Henry and all my airguns.

 

[WNTFW]

Testy1,
I shoot OK with irons and hate the stock sights on a Marlin 60. I don't handle the rear buckhorn & wide front sight well. If you want some nice irons check out the Techsights
http://www.tech-sights.com/marlin.htm

For a scope the real issue will be mounting and parrallax.

Sometimes having someone else shoot your rifle can be a good test. When I feel the "Is it me or the rifle" voice in my head I let my shooting buddy try.

Shooting tips:
Use Natural Point of Aim. (NPoA) If your position is right the sights will stay on target better than if you are forcing the rifle to the target. Think of your follow through as part of the shot cycle. Does the rifle & sight picture return to where it was before firing?
A good drill is to shoot a single shot at a small bull and then move to another bull for the next single shot. You have to reset your position a little for each one. This is where you practice NPoA You can do it live fire or dry fire. If you are worried about damage from dry fire on a .22 you can just pull the trigger all the way back without cocking the rifle. Otherwise you can get drywall achors of snap caps.
At this point you may want to stick with one ammo and shoot a bunch to see if you can shrink the group. Limit variables, make yourself the variable that makes the difference.
Another thing to try is bring the target closer. Being able to see your hits and get immediate feedback is not to be underated. Get it right up close then move back out.

Check to see if the screws holding the action to the stock are not loose. Don't over tighten them. Ideally you want a repeatable method to tighten them. Is the trigger on your rifle heavy or light on pull?

Some benches aren't that good. Maybe try prone.

 

[Testy1]

Deus Machina

Good to hear about the Marlin shooting that tight a group. I'll go down to Ranch and Home tomorrow and take a look at the scopes available. I'm sure they'll have something appropriate like the Tasco.

Thanks

Testy

 

[Deus Machina]

I do recommend the Bushnell over the el-cheapo Tasco's. The Tasco will keep zero within a shooting session, but my most recent one seems to wander from day to day.

$50 or so for a 3-9x is a good bottom range IMO.

 

[Testy1]

WNTFW

I'm also not too impressed with the stock sights. I really don't like the plastic blade front sight and believe it has probably been knocked off center at some time or other. Unfortunately, there doesn't see, to be a good way to adjust it properly and in a controllable manner. Simply bending and bashing on it doesn't seem like a good idea but that seems like the only option.

I had my buddy try a few shots and he really couldn't decide whether it was the sights or the rifle. We were shooting at 100 yards and I had the rear ramp sight pushed to max elevation and it was still 5 - 6 inches low. Also, I seem to be consistently left of the center.

I'll check the screws and standardize the ammo and see if that helps. The trigger pull seems a bit heavy although I haven't actually measured it so that's a bit subjective.

If all of that doesn't help, I'll start on the shooting drills you mention and see how that goes. Regardless of the accuracy of the rifle I am sure the drills will help me.

Thanks and regards

Testy
Thanks and regards

Testy

 

[pikid89]

cheap optics

these words do not really ever lead to good things

i say go with the tech sights...i have some on my 10/22 and at 50 bucks theyll blow the pants of of any scope that you can get at that price point (and some more expensive optics)...plus they will make you a better shooter

 

[Testy1]

Deus Machina

Thanks, I'll take a look for the Bushnells. They have always had a good reputation but I expected them to be a LOT more expensive.

Thanks again

Testy

 

[Testy1]

pikid89

I understand. Anyway, I'll look at the Bushnells and see what I can afford.

OK, I just took a look at the tech-sights that you and WNTFW both recommended. They look much like the sights on an older Mini-14 I own and I like those quite a bit.

Question, are there commonly available scope mounts that will let me keep my iron sights? I must admit that I am a great believer in Murphy's Law and at the risk of being flamed by some dedicated scope users, I always thought of scopes as being very cool items that would probably malfunction at some critical moment.

Thanks and regards

Testy

 

[Deus Machina]

Excuse me, just looked again; mine's a Simmons 22mag. Could have sworn it was Bushnell...

Either way, it's solid for a .22, inexpensive, and as a shooter that's never used a scope over $150, I really like it.

You may consider changing the rings, though. They're cheap.

Edit: IIRC, even the nice stainless 60's have a grooved receiver. Thus, no need for separate bases. But there are rings that allow you to see through at the bottom that would let you use the sights, but 1) I'm not sure how easy they are to find for rimfire grooves and 2) they raise the scope too high for my liking.

Otherwise, get a bare of tip-off rings with thumb screws. Makes it easy to take it off completely.

 

[WNTFW]

Testy1,
Exactly: having no repeatable sight adjustment is frustrating. Check to make sure the front sight is not loose.

I have the Techsights for a 10/22 and they are impressive. ( I don't own a 10/22, but that is another story)

My 60 has a Rimfire Technologies Picatinny Rail. So far I like it. Before that my rings would slip, which seems to be a problem with some 60's. Rimfire Tech had a split and the guy with the parts has a new site, I can't recall the name.

 

[Uncle Mike]

How's that 'fiberglass' insert doing, have you been able to wipe it off yet? hehehehe

 

[76shuvlinoff]

My Marlin M60 sports an old Bushnell 3X9
My Marlin 39A has a skinner peep on it.

I usually run CCI mini mags or Federal AutoMatch. Stingers hit harder but are (slightly) less accurate for me.

Both set-ups are better than I am.

 

[DBR]

Ammo: I've had very good results with both CCI Minimags and CCI standard velocity 40gr solid Blazer ammo with several rifles.
Bulk pack: Federal is all I use and it is not bad IME.

Note: When I have been testing ammo, I find it often takes 20 rds to get the barrel "conditioned" to a different ammo and get representative groups.

Scopes: You will get a better optic for your money with a good quality fixed 3X or 4X than with a variable. I like and own several of Weaver's 22lr scopes myself. Take a look at what Natchez has to offer.

A rimfire scope is usually parallax corrected at 50 yds, not 150 or 200yds like centerfire scopes. This is important. Parallax error (the point of impact changes as you move your eye side to side/up and down behind the scope) can be +-1" or more at 50yds.

For any reasonable 22lr distance there is no need for high magnification unless you are seriously target shooting and that is an entirely different application.

I also really like a good red dot sight. The Burris Fast fire II is pretty hard to beat. I have been shooting for a long time and I can do almost as well out to 100yds with a red dot as I can with a scope and I find the red dot a lot more fun to use. The aiming is very natural and used properly you keep both eyes open and focus on the target.

 

[DBR]

***

 

[Testy1]

How's that 'fiberglass' insert doing, have you been able to wipe it off yet? hehehehe

Uncle Mike

Nope! Whatever it is has made it through two cleanings and a little bit of poking and prodding by me. I should have said so earlier but I bought this thing from a pawn shop and have no idea of its history.

Regards

Testy

 

[Testy1]

My Marlin M60 sports an old Bushnell 3X9
My Marlin 39A has a skinner peep on it.

I usually run CCI mini mags or Federal AutoMatch. Stingers hit harder but are (slightly) less accurate for me.

Both set-ups are better than I am.

76shuvlinoff

I'm going to try some match ammo for a bit and see if that helps me. If I standardize on one type that will eliminate one variable. What do the Federal Automatch rounds go for? If they're cheap enough I could standardize on those until I am shooting to my own satisfaction and then experiment with other rounds. Do you actually notice a difference with these?

Thanks

Testy

 

[Testy1]

DBR

Thanks for this. I've never used one of the "dot" kind of sights but they sound interesting. As far as the scope goes, there is certainly nothing serious about my target shooting right now, I'm lucky to stay on the paper at 100 yds. :banghead:

Tomorrow I'll try the 50 yd range, standardize the ammo, and maybe do some drills suggested by WNTFW and we'll see if any or all of that helps.

Thanks for the help

Testy1