Mid-Afternoon Break-in (Long)

[buckeye8]

Someone entered my home (apartment) today. The most humbling part of it was that I was not home, but my family was. We were lucky, the intruder was only in the apartment for seconds, and left as soon as he realized it was not empty. My SO called out my name, thinking that the intruder was me coming home early, and intruder promptly ran back out the way he came in, leaving the front door wide open. Before I go into further detail, I'll say a few general things about the experience. Most of what I will say are things that THR members know already, but bear repeating:

It doesn't matter how nice your neighborhood is. Mine is great. Didn't matter.

Police response time: Over 8 minutes. In suburbia. Well-staffed force in a low-crime area. 8 minutes. The police are not able to protect you.

Carry at home. You don't need a CHL to do this. You don't need to make a big deal about it. Just do it quietly and make it a habit. Just as importantly: convince the other responsible adults in your home to do the same.

If the intrusion would have occurred 60 seconds earlier, my SO would have been in the shower. Her closest firearm would have been in another room. Carry everywhere, including the shower. (Fortunately, she had the good sense to arm herself quickly once she realized what was going on).

If my SO would have stopped for groceries after work, she might have walked in on the creep. She and the toddler would have been between a criminal and his way out. Not good.

Yes, we feel 'violated'. The walls and doors that surround you all day, every day, seem like a reasonable boundary between your home life and the rest of the world... until they fail you.

This is the part that disturbs me the most: The door was deadbolted (not locked on the knob, deadbolted). The door was not kicked in. It was opened with either a key or a lockpicking device. My SO said it sounded like I was having trouble with my key (remember, she thought it was me), which happens on occasion. She said it took less than ten seconds of fiddling with it before she heard the door open.

Someone walked up to my front door, in a busy neighborhood, in the middle of the afternoon, stood on my porch, somehow unlocked my door and entered. Our apartment manager says the locks are changed every time someone new moves into a unit. Not sure if I believe that. I think it is most likely that whoever decided to come into our particular apartment (out of hundreds) did so because they knew they had a way in. Obviously, the locks have been changed, and I'm working on a few new security measures.

So, what do you guys think? To me, it doesn't sound like the work of a curious teenager or an aggressive thug. Petty daytime thief? With a key/lockpicking device? Are lockpicking devices really that common among these sorts of thieves? Long ago, I remember hearing about an unscrupulous maintenance man at a complex near mine who sometimes sold spare keys to apartments to supplement his income. Not saying that I believe that this is what happened, but one way or another, it seems as if someone knew that they could get into our place, and it didn't take them much time to do it.

Thoughts?

 

[BHP FAN]

somebody did the ''bump-lock'' thing on ya bro.There's a good you tube video on it,and what you need to do to prevent it.

 

[mfcmb]

+1 on the "bumping" guess.

 

[DFW1911]

It doesn't matter how nice your neighborhood is. Mine is great. Didn't matter.

Amen.

How about an alarm or dog? As you know your perimeter was breached, so let's figure out a way to make that not happen again.

I hate to say it, but you may have been quite lucky indeed. What if the next guy has more intent than this person? Give yourself / SO as much notice as possible. Ones that bark, bite, or both are great deterrents.

Now, have you thought about this through the eyes of the bad guy? Why you? Why not your neighbor? If you can begin to understand why you were a target - and you were - you can learn best how to defend against and / or defeat the threat.

I'm thrilled to hear everything turned out okay. That's one scary story and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

Stay safe,
DFW1911

 

[luzyfuerza]

I had no idea what lock-bumping was. Here's a link to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping

Lock bumping
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A typical bump keyLock bumping is a lock picking technique for opening a pin tumbler lock using a specially-crafted bump key. One bump key will work for all locks of the same type.

Contents [hide]
1 History
2 Mechanics
3 Countermeasures
3.1 Lock designs
4 References
5 External links



[edit] History
In the 1970s, locksmiths in Denmark shared a technique for knocking on a lock cylinder while applying slight pressure to the back of the lock plug. When the pins would jump inside of the cylinder, the plug would be able to slide out freely, thus enabling the locksmith to disassemble the lock quickly.[1] The use of a bump key was not introduced until some time later and was first recognized as a potential security issue around 2002–2003 by Klaus Noch who brought it to the attention of the German media.[2] After further examination of the procedure, a white paper was drafted in 2005 by Barry Wels & Rop Gonggrijp of The Open Organization Of Lockpickers (TOOOL) detailing the method and its applicability.[3] A patent exists for a lock device following the same principle as the bump key from 1926–1928.[4]

The technique then attracted more popular attention in 2005 when a Dutch television show, Nova, broadcast a story about the method.[5] After the method received further publicity from TOOOL presentations at security conference talks, members of TOOOL and a Dutch consumer group, Dutch Consumentenbond, analyzed the capability of the method on 70 different lock models and with trained and untrained users in a 2006 study.[6]

At the same time, Marc Tobias, an American security expert, began to talk publicly in the United States about the technique and its potential security threats. In 2006, he released two further white papers regarding the technique and its potential legal ramifications.[7][8]


[edit] Mechanics

When the correct key is inserted, the gaps between the key pins (red) and driver pins (blue) align with the edge of the plug, called the shear line(yellow).A pin tumbler lock is composed of a series of spring-loaded stacks called pin stacks. Each pin stack is composed of two pins that are stacked on top of each other: the key pin, which touches the key when it is inserted, and the driver pin, which is spring driven. When the proper key is inserted into the lock, all of the key pins and driver pins align along the "shear line," allowing the cylinder to turn. That is, when the bottom of the driver pins and, therefore, the top of the key pins form a straight line, the cylinder can be turned, thus rotating the key pins away from the driver pins. When no key or the wrong key is in the lock, pin misalignment prevents the cylinder from turning.

When bumping a lock, the key is initially inserted into the keyway one notch (pin) short of full insertion. Bumping the key inward forces it deeper into the keyway. The specially designed teeth of the bump key transmit a slight impact force to all of the bottom pins in the lock. The key pins transmit this force to the driver pins; the key pins stay in place. This physics action can be visualized by observing the same effect on the desktop toy: Newton's Cradle. Because the pin movements are highly elastic, the driver pins "jump" from the key pins for a fraction of a second, moving higher than the cylinder (shear line of the tumbler), then are pushed normally back by the spring to sit against the key pins once again. Even though this separation only lasts a split second, if a light rotational force is continuously applied to the key during the slight impact, the cylinder will turn during the short separation time of the key and driver pins, and the lock can be opened while the driver pins are elevated above the keyway. Lock bumping takes only an instant to open the lock. The lock is not damaged in any way. Certain clicking and vibrating tools designed for bumping can also be used. These allow for rapid repetition of bumping against locks that have advertised "bump proof" features. Only a rare few key-pin locks cannot be bumped. Electronic locks that have a key backup are obviously completely susceptible to this method.

A different tool with a similar principle of operation is a pick gun.


[edit] Countermeasures

[edit] Lock designs
High-quality locks may be more vulnerable to bumping unless they employ specific countermeasures. More precise manufacturing tolerances within the cylinder make bumping easier because the pins move more freely and smoothly. Locks made of hardened steel are more vulnerable because they are less prone to damage during the bumping process that might cause a cheaper lock to jam.

Locks having security pins (spool or mushroom pins, etc.)—even when combined with a regular tumbler mechanism—generally make bumping somewhat more difficult but not impossible. Electronic locks, magnetic locks, and locks using rotating disks are not vulnerable to this attack.

Because a bump key must have the same blank profile as the lock it is made to open, restricted or registered key profiles are much safer from bumping, since the correct key blanks cannot be obtained legally without permission or registration with relevant locksmith associations. While this would make it harder to obtain key blanks, regular keys can be filed down to act as bumpkeys.

Locks that have trap pins that engage when a pin does not support them will jam a lock's cylinder. Another countermeasure is shallow drilling, in which one or more of the pin stacks is drilled slightly shallower than the others. If an attempt were made on a lock that has shallow drilled pin stacks, the bump key will be unable to bump the shallow drilled pins because they are too high for the bump key to engage.

 

[sm]

Note: Armchairs, you may want to leave now, in fact going straight to hell is fine by me.
When you are born into high risk, and have spent the decades I and other have, then you can share some real life experiences and observations.
I know, this was part of my Mindset, Skillset, and my Software, part of the reasons I am still upright and breathing.


buckeye8,

I am sorry you and yours went through this, still I am happy nothing worse came of it.


I have shared before, and have received nasty PMs, for what I am about to share - again.

The person used a key to gain access.

It is common, for Property Mgmt, to give Maintenance folks Master keys to locks.

Not all HVAC, Plumbers, Pest Control and others, are honest folks.
Add
The locks on many Apts and similar rental property , are not the best quality, are purchased in bulk, and based on price.

So it is not uncommon for someone to have a Master key, and it works on many Apt Complexes and similar rental properties.

Jurisdictions vary, still basically the Landlord has more rights than the person renting the property.

You cannot just change locks, for if you do, you can be held accountable.

i.e. Hot water heaters go out, and when they do, they flood.
Apt complexes want a key to apts, so they can shut off the water to the apt with the hot water heater that played out, and they want to check for damage/fix damage on apt downstairs.

You don't want to come home, and find the upstairs neighbors hot water heater played out, and the water has come through the ceiling and damaged your computer, college paper you were doing, fine books on a bookshelf or textbooks, or furniture, not to mention the soppy carpet and...

Tip:
Get this in writing, with witnesses, and I suggest having a lawyer, or at least someone in law school.

Let the mgmt company know you have a reason for wanting to change locks, and beef up door jambs at your expense.
You will pay for this.

A set of keys go into a sealed envelope for on site mgmt, or on site maint, and I suggest using a quality envelope with wax seal.
Just like they did in the old days.

Now you get a professional lock person, preferably a mom and pop, to assist you in this.
Get two sets of locks, Medco is a good one.

If...there is an emergency, say a hot water heater goes out, and the seal is broken, and keys used, then you have immediate back up, for new , safe, locks and keys.

These Medco and others cannot have the keys duplicated.
(Well they can, still, more difficult to do)

Always, Always, have spare door locks and keys.
Stuff happens, and happens on a weekend or holiday.
Locks break, and having a back up, even a inexpensive one, is better than nothing on the doors.

What I am sharing is real, and is old school. With the economy as it is, matters are only going to get worse.

Do not leave anything to "advertise" anything in an apt, or rental property.
No guns stuff, no jewelry, no coin collections, ...etc, nothing.
Not even magazines, or books in plain site.

Bad enough criminals watch and case apts for good looking girls. They follow a girl in a car with a parking sticker from a complex they notice in a parking lot.
I raised nine kinds of hell over a parking stickers, and got this changed at some complexes, after some young girls were stalked and had serious problems.

They notice a mom, wearing a nice wedding ring, and watch at the car wash, and there are ways to find out where she lives.

There are some sick folks out there, and having master keys, makes taking down prey easier.

There are some folks that seem to be nice neighbors, but will sell you out in a heartbeat.
Ditto for visitors.

Summer is coming, and the folks head down to the pool...
Prime time to get cased, and taken down.

Watch closely now - John Norman ( Kris Kristofferson)

Re:Guns in bathrooms.

My young , good looking neighbor , came in after working until 11pm , and went to take a shower.
I heard the scream!

I was fast, not fast enough getting out of bed, tossing on jeans and shoes, and the BG left left before I could run next door...I had a key to her place.

She had her gun in the bathroom, because of me, and what all I shared.
She was waiting for her new locks...
The Master key, was in the frigging door lock.

The master key, came from a Maint fella, going through hard times, and he was told, he would get a cut , of the valuables stolen and fenced.
Just this person had other ideas seeing this good looking young gal.

I have had folks come in while traveling, and staying in hotels and motels.

I am the one that figured how a BG gained the address of a business lady, and gained access to her house, and they did this while she was in the shower.
Car Wash.
Employee, simply took note of a nice professional lady, and got her keys out of her ignition, made duplicates of her keys inside with key making machine, looked in her glove box, and got her address from the required registration and insurance information that was in the glovebox.

Stalk, get a idea of schedule, and waited for bathroom light to come on.

Armchairs, if it was not illegal, or if I could be guaranteed not getting busted, instead for "educational" purposes, I could take you down.
It is good thing I am on the law abiding side, as I do know some things.
Some of my mentors do include ex cons.
I had to know "my enemy" and some models of criminals exist, you have never even heard of.


buckeye8, look into the suggestions I made.
At night, get one of the door securing devices being discussed in another thread.

Mindset /Software is the key.
Get with some folks, that know this stuff, like a mom and pop Lock/Alarm/Safe place.
They know what is going down in respected areas, and how to make prudent suggestions where you live, and to fit your budget.

Shove the mall ninja out of the way and get to know a seasoned Cop
They have forgotten more than a mall ninja will ever learn.


.

 

[YammyMonkey]

Sounds like you learned a lot & have a plan of attack. I, for one, can’t fault sm’s suggestions. If your SO is not inclined to have a gun to use this incident could be the tipping point for that issue.

Take care.

 

[countertop]

The person used a key to gain access.

It is common, for Property Mgmt, to give Maintenance folks Master keys to locks.

Not all HVAC, Plumbers, Pest Control and others, are honest folks.

+1

Back in the day, as a young lawyer, we used to do a lot of premise liability cases. Senior partner of the firm I worked at served as counsel to the DC Rape Crisis Center and would constantly get referrals from women who had been raped. Most wouldn't have civil recourse, but about once a month we would have a good case come through the door. The most egregious all involved "loss" of master keys - I put "loss" in quotes because if your a janitor making $20k a year in DC and someone wants to rent the keys to get back at someone else . . . . well, lets just say its far more common than I would ever have thought it was.

Your lucky they left and didn't attack your wife.

 

[Bailey Boat]

All of the "master key" theories sound good but in today's world there's not a property left that has them. The related liability has made them a thing of the past and they won't be coming back. The only "master key" left is the "construction master" used during new construction and then disabled by the new incoming management as they accept the unit.
As for "bumping", it's possible that was used but it's far from silent. It requires that a bump key be instered into the lock and then struck with enough force to get the desired action of the pins. Surely she would have heard the strike and been alerted. The car wash theory may have some merit but it would involve a lot of coordination of the entire staff there. I never let my vehicle out of my sight when it's going through the process.
I don't have a good answer as to how the entry was made just ruling out what has been mentioned thus far......

 

[sm]

Property management is only going to do the bare minimum to meet local codes and insurance requirements.

It is about "them" making money, not you having a secure place to live, or run a business.

If they could "build" the structures any "cheaper" they would. When I say "cheaper" I mean everything from local codes which dictate wiring, plumbing, firewalls between every so many apts/suites, fire extinguishers (exterior/interior), drywall, framing, roofing...etc.

Ask anyone that has built one of these, and you will hear "man, I would not have cut corners if I was going to build this thing".

When it comes to repair, again, just the minimum.

Door Jambs.

Go ask any Mom&Pop Lock/Alarm/Safe, and they will verify the door jambs always need beefing up.
Mom & Pop door and window will also verify , and many will not stock these inferior products. These folks have a reputation to maintain, and offer customer service.
You want the cheap stuff, go see a cheesy stuff supplier.

The reality is, if a criminal wants in, they will get in.
If they want your stuff, they already own it, just a matter of coming into to get it.

Locks are really "not that hard", and today, many of the "old names" have lessened the quality of the product, and are riding in the "old established name brand".
Like everything else, the old name is on a product now made in China.

There is more plastic, and less quality metals being used.

Oldest trick in the book is to put something into the recess where a bolt goes into the jamb.
Silly Putty works, as does a wadded up pc of paper.

Law abiding did this, such as parents to keep a kid from locking themselves in a bathroom, or the aging adult going through dementia, Alzheimers, and other sad things.
You can only take so many phone calls in a day, and make so many trips to a aging adults house, before it drives you nuts.

A good pc of metal, thin, will get in from the exterior, and push the bolt out of the door recess.

Many folks are lazy, and do not use Dead Bolts.

Apts got fed up with having to come unlock a door, when someone locked themselves out.
They started charging a fee, for having to do this.

It was not the Dead Bolt, it was the Lock ( various names) with the button that one turns/pushes, being in the "lock" position and the door closing.
The wind, catches a door, while taking out trash. Or they run home, have to pee, unlock door, drop keys and purse and one load of groceries, head out to get other groceries and wind shut the door , locking them out, with keys, inside.

I advised one Landlord, to get rid of that lock, and go with Dead Bolt only.
We also had a retired Lock fella come out beef up jambs and some other tricks.
Alleviated a whole lot of headaches, and problems.

WE beefed up windows and sliding patio doors too.

Master Keys...
How many of you still have a set of keys from a former place you lived, or business, or vehicle?

Criminals know what I am about to share.

Small town where 'we' had a house to use, had a small population. There was a couple of Retirement centers, and these nice old folks, sometimes just get forgetful.
The serious concerns of falling, and not being able to get help, or medical reactions.

Seasoned Cop and I were having coffee, and he got a call about one of the retirement homes, and the lady had locked herself out of her place. She shut the car door with her purse still in the car.
She was calling from a neighbor and feeling pretty low and stupid.

I asked the neighbor what kind of lock and she said Yale.
I had a Yale key, and the cop and I ran over to a mom and pop key place and he made a master key.
It worked, he knew what would.

The cop kept that key, and it came in handy.
Old folks got a right to save some face. They have vultures ( some call these kids) that constantly say "you cannot take care of yourself".
These vultures just want to stick the old folks in "home" and take everything they have.

We had couple of car dealers and this mom and pop lock get some master keys to fit some cars.
We joked about how Buick was real popular with the old folks, especially gray ones.

Heck, I have used a putty knife, to get past a dead bolt. That is why a locksmith will suggest a "wedge" that will prevent this.

Any Fire Dept folks here?
You will share, still you know how to get into a house, and in a hurry.
And I don't mean taking a axe to the structure either.

Car Wash...
Yes, there are a number of ploys.
Not everyone working in a car wash has a clean record. Some learned some things from cell college.

Some are even at graduate level, they "read" you while at the self service car wash , from across the street.

Not paranoia, just cold hard facts from reality. All we do , just slows someone down.
All this stuff keeps a honest person honest, if evil wants you, they take you.


I am not the only one around here, that goes back before IDPA/IPSC/3 Gun.
We had our "lessons" and "set ups", which you folks call training and stages.


Check this out- I did this one when I was about 10 years old, around 1965.
I was surprised to see this stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2AICllA8tU

Yeah, a girl, notice how fast she was in and started shooting.

WE did it, to replicate inmates escaping from local prison, or chain gang, and going to a rural house, overcoming occupants, locking the door, and having to deal with trouble, until the Sheriff, or Corrections folks could arrive.

Now the flip side of our "set up" was being the person in the house, and the inmate coming in on us as well.

What Antis and Control freaks do not get:

Everything can be for good or evil. Nuclear bombs, or Nuclear medicine.
Cyanide to clean metals, or added with acid in a gas chamber, or just used as a poison outright.

It is the intent of the user of a tool, not the tool itself.
Master Keys, have a law abiding place, as does a battering ram, or gun, or knife, or matches or ...

Look at that video, how long did it take for her to get in, and start shooting?

Times are funky again, and will be getting worse. Wear the darn gun at home, and this includes the bathroom.

You don't know your neighbors, or their visitors. It does not take a rocket scientist to hear an apartment neighbor and what they are doing. For them to figure out your schedule.
You figure theirs out.

When they take a shower, giving a kid a bath, cooking in the kitchen, go to bed...

Another set up we did, was cooking, doing dishes and having to deal with evil.
Yet another was giving a baby a bath in the kitchen sink, and bigger brats in the bathtub.

I was ten years old, and used a putty knife to slip the latch on a back screen door, then lock on back door, and entered without being heard, or seen.
I used a H&R 7 shot revolver in .22 rimfire, and good, quick effective hits on two moving scarecrows, angled to me, representing Bad Guys.

This is why I surprised to see the video linked above.


Show that video to your wife, girlfriend, fiance', daughter, whomever, when they don't understand why you CCW, and CCW around the house.

Err on the side of caution...
or as I was raised-

Think out of the box...
s

 

[foghornl]

Pay attention to the writings AKA 'Life Lessons' from Steve (sm...the post above)

He knows of what he speaks...only 1 tiny thing to add...Think out of the box...lest you end up prematurely & permanently resting in 7' oblong box...

 

[Bailey Boat]

SM, I'm afraid that you're off base in several areas....

Ask anyone that has built one of these, and you will hear "man, I would not have cut corners if I was going to build this thing".

I do built "these things" and a code is a code. When the inspector comes to do his/her thing my apt gets the same inspection standard that your "custom home" does. It doesn't have the frills but the basics are the same, a roof over your head.

Locks are really "not that hard", and today, many of the "old names" have lessened the quality of the product, and are riding in the "old established name brand".
Like everything else, the old name is on a product now made in China.
There is more plastic, and less quality metals being used.

In the apt industry Kwikset and Yale are the most commonly used locksets and deadbolts because of ease of maintenance and availability of parts. They are made identical to units that are 15 years old or older.

Oldest trick in the book is to put something into the recess where a bolt goes into the jamb.
A good pc of metal, thin, will get in from the exterior, and push the bolt out of the door recess.

I think you're confusing a "bolt" (as in a deadbolts bolt) with a "plunger (as with an interior lockset used on a bath or bedroom.

Many folks are lazy, and do not use Dead Bolts.

If someone is that lazy then they deserve to have their belongings stolen

Apts got fed up with having to come unlock a door, when someone locked themselves out.
They started charging a fee, for having to do this.
It was not the Dead Bolt, it was the Lock ( various names) with the button that one turns/pushes, being in the "lock" position and the door closing.
The wind, catches a door, while taking out trash. Or they run home, have to pee, unlock door, drop keys and purse and one load of groceries, head out to get other groceries and wind shut the door , locking them out, with keys, inside.

For such an expert you shuld know that it's called a "lockset"......

I advised one Landlord, to get rid of that lock, and go with Dead Bolt only.

99% of apartments haven't used a exterior lockset in years, deadbolt only to prevent this situation.

Master Keys...
How many of you still have a set of keys from a former place you lived, or business, or vehicle?

Law requires a lock change between residents. When one moves out a "vendor lock" is placed on the door to allow access by the various trades in order to get the unit painted, cleaned, carpets cleaned, etc. Makes life simple on all concerned. Then a new lock is installed prior to the new resident moving in.

Seasoned Cop and I were having coffee, and he got a call about one of the retirement homes, and the lady had locked herself out of her place. She shut the car door with her purse still in the car.
She was calling from a neighbor and feeling pretty low and stupid.
I asked the neighbor what kind of lock and she said Yale.
I had a Yale key, and the cop and I ran over to a mom and pop key place and he made a master key. It worked, he knew what would.

If the "mom and pop" was a true locksmith he wouldn't need your key to cut a "master" he would do it by code and even if he did one it wouldn't work unless the Yale cylinder was master pinned and even then he wouldn't know what the pin code was to that particular lockset or deadbolt.

The cop kept that key, and it came in handy.

And if he's caught with it he's in a world of hurt. It's considered a burgulary tool and will get him a new job.

Heck, I have used a putty knife, to get past a dead bolt.

No, you may have used a putty knife to get past a LOCKSET. A deadbolt cams over center when fully locked and you won't move it back over with a putty knife.

Not paranoia, just cold hard facts from reality. All we do , just slows someone down.
All this stuff keeps a honest person honest, if evil wants you, they take you.

Finally, something we can agree on.........

In conclusion, I've grown tired of doing this and I have other matters to attend to so I'll stop now, but I think you get the idea......

 

[Th3_M4d_1r1shm4n]

Hey Bailey, how about contributing to the discussion instead of just saying "no, that's not right, and neither is that or that or that..."?

Constructive criticism, hoss. Simply flaming what someone is saying does nothing but take up bandwidth and board space.

Buckeye8, it sucks that this happened to you, but at the same time it's a fortunate event. Because you realized just how vulnerable you are, but without suffering anything more than a scare. To steal a line from Epictetus: "On the occasion of every accident that befalls you, remember to turn to yourself and inquire what power you have for turning it to use."

Some good ideas have been mentioned in this thread. OODA on what you think will work best. Secure the perimeter, and we can all hope that what happened once doesn't happen again.

Go well.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I thought Baileys post containing actual facts and knowledge specific to locksmithing as opposed to axioms and anecdotes was very much a contribution to the thread.

 

[sm]

Bailey Boat,

I think we are more on the same page than we , or others realize.
Internet makes it difficult to communicate at times, and I admit doing a poor job of expressing myself.

A code is a code, still I suspect you have more experiences and skills, where you personally would prefer something "better" than just code.

Areas of the country differ, and we do have members outside the USA.
So my fault again, for not mentioning this, as I do sometimes post with these folks in mind.

I respect folks as yourself, and consulted folks such as yourself. I am not afraid to ask questions, or say I do not know.
You have your experiences and observations, and I have mine. That is all I have.

For me, since I used professionals to do lock, alarm, safe, and vault doors, I paid attention.
We had "our" folks as well.
To me, the quality of locks have changed, as I used be fair to middlin' in using a lock pick set.
Expensive safes and vaults, with time locks, and some required two, or three of us present to open.
We could never travel in the same conveyance, stay in the same town, much less hotel, and forget going out to eat.

I do not care how high dollar the security is, the weak link will always be a gun at the head and being forced.

Stuff breaks, no matter how expensive or well made. I have had a "pin" in a safe lock go out, and thankfully the door was open. I could not shut it or lock it, and serious security went into effect as the folks came to get the door, fix it, and the huge safe with lots of valuables had no door.

Patio doors are vulnerable, if one does not have the nice suction cups, glass and door installers use, a toilet or kitchen sink plunger will lift that door off its track, even if locked.

I was shocked in the wee hours once. Some punks decided to toss a trash can through a glass door.
Alarm scared them...just a rash of heathens being heathens.

That door was aluminum framed, and the previous person using that location, had had a pc of steel added to the aluminum jamb.

Three things.
1. Window next to glass broke, and there the dead bolt was sticking through that steel, it was vulnerable...
2. Those door frames are assembled, you can see down into the lock mechanism, with the glass gone.
3. Lock/Alarm/Safe fella used his knife to remove that part of the door and "wanna see the lock".
Just that "bar" of aluminum where the lockset is.

Needless to say...a new custom steel door was done, and window next to it tweaked.


To me, the internals are different from older locks, to new of same brand. We will have to disagree on this, and I will admit going with lock, safe alarm folks have shared with me.


I am not an expert.
Just one raised into a high risk industry, and am shaped by all this.
So I admit looking at things differently.
Especially when one travels and stays in hotels, motels, and condos.
When the company rents houses and apartments for me and mine to stay at when traveling.

When a buddy of yours is come into and shot, left for dead and robbed.
When another buddy of yours is driven around for hours until wee hours and forced to open up.
These folks had me as target number one, but I had a rep as being difficult to peg.
My buddy was target number two, and while he was going through his ordeal, his wife being held hostage was raped repeatedly.
I have had to live with this, had they come for me, the mdse is insured, they can have it.
They cannot have me, still I had nobody that could have been held hostage, and raped.

My experiences and all were used to assist battered women, abused kids.
Some other things I know, were used to assist law enforcement.
I knew the industries, the language, mannerisms...just because this is what I was raised into, and had spent time in.

All I can share are my experiences and observations. Problem is, I cannot share so much about me and the industries.
I am a target, and I can get others hurt or worse if forced to tell what is in my head.

In conclusion, I've grown tired of doing this and I have other matters to attend to so I'll stop now, but I think you get the idea......

I too am tired, and yes I get the idea.

New folks cycle in, and some just do not know, and have a right to ask questions.
At some point, some others need to step up to the plate and help assist these folks.
Passing forward as passed to them.

You, me, others, we have a right to learn new things for ourselves, and we cannot as we keep having to answer the same questions over and over and over again.
Yeah, it get old, tiresome.
Sounds tacky, still we have earned the right to kick back, learn new stuff, or if we want, just sit on our butts and do nothing.

Armchairs, are another story.
I personally get fed up with their bull chips.

Everything defaults to hardware, such as gun.

Well that "gun" is not going to do them much good when they are not home.
The gun magazines , targets, and all sorts of kewl gear, strewn about the apt is going to advertise to someone, this apt has some good stuff to steal.
So will the stickers on a vehicle, and strutting out with logo gun gear.

Oh they have a kewl rig for everyday of the week, but they are too tight, or stupid to beef up a door lock, and jamb.


Yeah, I am done with this thread.
Now I wish I had a pick set and some locks to play with.
And some refresher lessons...dang, getting old sometimes means the forgetter works better than memory.
*grin*

-steve

 

[doc540]

My reading comp skills are challenged, but I understood the wife heard someone fiddling with the lock for nearly 10 seconds.

It wouldn't have taken nearly that long with any kind of a duplicate or master key, right?

What am I missing here?

Just last month my 19 year old daughter was upstairs when both alarm yappers went beserk. She peered down the stairwell and could see that someone was "fiddling with" the locked front door knob.

hmmmmmm........

(btw: we now have both an upstairs snub and a downstairs snub)

 

[NyxErinyes]

Just as a side note:
The master key and bump keys aside, an old fashioned lock pick is plenty easy to come by and use too.

Heck, they actually have lockpicks.com now where you can buy all manner of things.

As it happens, my father owns a simple pen lockpick just for the novelty of it. I had never picked a lock before in my life and pulled the deadbolt completely out of our front door in less than 20 seconds. That was fun watching Dad put it back.

But the simple fact of the matter is, locks can be picked, and with a fair degree of ease. Even a novice can get lucky.

Just my two bits.

 

[LoganDub8388]

I'm a licensed locksmith in NC, and have been doin it for about five years. I can break into any car no matter the make and model or any house no matter the lock in ATLEAST 5-10 mins (thats the absolute MOST time it takes me, and thats usually on high security locks on houses).

Now...that being said, i have tools that only licensed locksmiths can buy, as well as conventional lockpicks. Now sometimes it scares me how quick i can break into a house, and sometimes it takes longer. Its not like the movies, and the biggest determining factor (90percent id say) for successfully picking a lock is the pattern of the pins (completely random) in the lock that come random from the manufacturer. the other 10 is the skill of the locksmith.

key-bumping is possible, but does not and CANNOT work all the time, its seriously not what u think. trust me


could have been a skilled theif...who knows


buy high security locks like medeco, ASSA, ect. even a high grade SCHLAGE deadbolt is better than your average quickset lock

 

[kyo]

does the wife know how to use a gun? Got one within her reach? Start talkin to her about it.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Thank you. I just learned something today.

I intend to do something about this ASAP.

 

[TehK1w1]

In the apt industry Kwikset and Yale are the most commonly used locksets and deadbolts because of ease of maintenance and availability of parts. They are made identical to units that are 15 years old or older.

We just replaced the old(30-35 yrs) Dexter locks with brand-new Kwiksets, and I'm so dissappointed in the quality of the kwiksets that I may just try to get the Dexters rekeyed.

 

[Daniel1120]

Kwiksets are decent, economical. Step it up to a baldwin, you wont be dissapointed. If your real flush with cash, just buy high security locks.

 

[alexpkeaton529]

thats a tough situation that I hope I never have to deal with and am sorry that you had to. It really gets your heart pumping knowing that somebody would do that.

My girlfriend and I will be moving into our own apartment in the next couple of months so I am already planning ahead with door security. Our apartment is located on the second floor with the only entry point being a door on the first floor, kind of hard to explain but I specifically asked for a second floor apartment for that fact.

My dad taught me how to pick a lock when I was about ten years old. He gave me two or three locks and simple tools and told me to practice. I was able to pick a lock fairly easily within a week. Ten years go by and I havent done it since. I live in a 4/4 student style apartment since I am in college. One of the rooms was vacant but locked and I decided to pick it just for fun. With two pieces of bent metal that I made in a few minutes I had the door open in fifteen seconds, it was a kwikset lock. It just goes to show that almost anybody can do it if they spend the time and have anything resembling the proper tools.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

We had kwikset locks in school dorms. A credit card or similar material defeated this lock easily.

What they did not know was at the time we stored money inside the frame tubing of the beds themselves. Lift off floor, insert rolled money, set it back down. They have broken into closet and tore it apart looking for money they know you have but did not think of the bed leg.

 

[buckeye8]

sm, bailey and the rest, thank you for your responses.

-For what it's worth, the deadbolt lock says 'Weslock' on it. Probably a discount brand of some sort?

-Yes, the fiancee knows how to defend herself. I wish she would practice more, but I have no doubt that she would use the tools available to her instead of letting herself become a victim.

-One thing that concerns me, and I'm sure I am not alone in this, is that while my SO can and will use a firearm to defend herself, she does not always carry on her person. She said when she realized what was going on, the gun down the hallway seemed 'so far away'. When you've never had an unexpected intruder, your gun in the closet seems comforting. Once they're in the house, it seems awfully far away. We are working to correct this problem.

-I was glad to see that someone started a "Gun in the Shower" thread. I'm not sure if it was inspired by this thread or not, but it is useful, because I would venture to guess that many of even our most rabid self-defense folks are often lax about this. I've taken to keeping a piece hidden inside a magazine on the back of the toilet, within arms' reach. Bathrooms are tricky when it comes to self-defense, but you have to figure something out that works. As sm said in an earlier post, criminals sometimes wait for the bathroom light to come on as a signal to commence with their nefarious plans. Thank goodness my girlfriend decided not to shave her legs that day, or this incident could have turned out much worse.

-Those of you who, like me, are lucky enough to have women in your life who are willing and able to defend themselves, get them their CHL! You are not always going to be able to play 'hero'. Sometimes she will be alone, and she needs to be in the habit of carrying. My SO is not afraid of carrying, she's just not in the habit. We've put off her CHL class for financial reasons, but now I'm thinking there are a few things that are worth creating a little debt for.

-We've come to the conclusion that we're probably not going to figure out the exact method used to breach our deadbolt, and will instead focus on things we can control. As many of you have advised, the one thing we can always control is our mindset. My mindset is pretty well where it should be, and I think now I can say the same for her. This could have been a blessing in disguise, because next time, she will be much, much more prepared.