What should she have done?

[DirtyBrad]

Hey guys, I could use your help on something.

My girlfriend is home all this week, but I'm at work. We live together in an apartment. The neighborhood isn't great, but it isn't scary either. The apartment is reasonably secure. We have big windows all around and are around the back, but we're also up on the third floor so the front door is the only real point of entry and it's metal and has a good lock and deadbolt.

I have a pistol and shotgun, both are kept locked up. The shotgun stays in the long gun safe and the pistol is loaded, cocked, and locked in a pistol safe bolted to the bed frame. The safe is the type with a combination so you can get into it relatively quickly.

I shoot regularly and am comfortable with either firearm. My girlfriend is still a little leery, though. She's been shooting with me and has practiced at home with snap caps, but she's very new. We're working on it, but it'll still be a while before she's comfortable and proficient.

She just instant messaged me all freaked out because there was some dude knocking on our door. She said it was a big guy with no uniform or package and he knocked for a while. She didn't answer the door or let him know she was home. He eventually went away. I told her to call the office and let them know what was going on. I told her to tell them what was going on and they'd probably either have an explanation or would call the cops if anyone else had reported the same. They just thanked her for calling and said they'd look into it, but she hasn't heard back. Right after, a bunch of kids and parents came out to the playground right out front, so she felt there was no more threat.

I'm very glad she didn't open the door. We had a long talk about not opening the door for anyone, talking through the door, not being worried about seeming rude, etc.

I'm still not sure exactly what the best thing to have done was, though. If this guy was casing the grounds for burglary, my thought is that it would be better for him to know someone is home so he wouldn't bust in and find her there. On the other hand, I don't really want anyone knowing that she's there by herself.

What do you guys think is the ideal response to this kind of situation? I was just thinking that maybe turning the radio up loud would have been a good thing to do. Let's the dude know someone's home, but not who or how many. Any other ideas thoughts or ideas?

 

[El Tejon]

What's the best way to survive a fight? Right, don't get in a fight. Avoidance is best.

Sounds like she did the right thing--not putting herself in danger.

Next she needs to get to the range and obtain more trigger time and some formal training hours. The proper response to fear is preparation.

 

[DirtyBrad]

I'm extremely happy that she didn't put herself in danger. My worry is that by avoidance, she might be putting out an empty apartment vibe, which could lead to a much worse situation when the guy breaks in thinking there's no one there. I'm liking the idea of the TV or radio getting turned up.

She definitely needs more trigger time. And we could both use some professional training. My thought was to get her at least comfortable shooting before taking that step, but maybe I'm overthinking that and we should just sign up.

 

[TallPine]

I just shoot a few rounds through the door - that usually runs people off and let's them know you are home

(just kidding - really! )

She definitely needs more trigger time.

But is she mentally and emotionally ready and willing to pull the trigger on someone who is an immediate threat? (and how to recognize what is and isn't a "shootable" threat?)

That's the problem I have with the female side of my family ... "oh, I just don't think I could shoot someone to save myself..."

 

[MarshallDodge]

I think she did the right thing. Maybe racking the shotgun close to the door would send the guy running.

 

[odysseus]

Sounds good. She should neve open the door unless it is a trusted person. Even if he was in uniform, a quick call can verify the validity of said service employee.

It's not an easy call. Should she talk to the person or not, it's instinctual and I know of people who never talk but just look through the peephole. Sometimes it's good to verbally engage if you feel you can command the conversation. You might gain more information, even enough to just outright call the police on the person so they can question him. However again I think it's instincts too and I won't say that is wrong.

 

[NMshooter]

Work on her mindset.

All the training in the world will not help her until she makes the conscious decision that her life is more important than any potential attacker's.

Might mention that she is responsible for her own life and safety, and that it is wrong to expect complete strangers to risk their lives for her just because she is unwilling to take responsibility herself.

Not that such arguments have worked very well with certain people I know, but some will not learn until it is too late, no matter what you do.

 

[HI express]

In the hood

My job takes me into the 'hood on a daily basis, field inspector. I get to knock on people's doors so that I can get their permission to let me conduct a safety inspection for the city.

I'm one of those guys who actually say "Hi, I'm from your local government and I am here to help you."

In the neighborhoods where there is a lot more gang activity and loitering by folks of all ages, I noticed a lot more radios on, but little to no responses to my knocking and ringing of their doorbells. I noticed with my coworkers they felt that someone might be home with the radio or television on. So for our own knowledge. when someone responded we would ask if their place of residence had been "hit." Most of the respondents indicated that with the TV or radio on, they felt that they were hit less often or not at all because there was noise on.

Luck. Try to get more range time with your lady. Make it fun and challenging and you will have someone that likes the competition.

 

[LAK]

Nothing to add, except the need to develope a fighting mindset. Sometimes harder for women, but not necessarily so. Good book: Principals of Personal Defense, by Col. Cooper.
--------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Fred Fuller]

She did well not opening the door. Just because someone wears a uniform and/or carries a package doesn't mean they aren't up to no good- might want to remind her of that too. You'll want to keep up with expected deliveries and be prepared to deal with legitimate presences at the door. A cordless phone to check bona fides might be a good idea, if she doesn't have a cell phone she should have one available too, in addition to the land line. Note that a working cell phone even with no service subscription can still be used to call 911.

She needs to be able to handle someone who is unwilling to take a locked door for an answer all by herself, with whatever weapon(s) she finds comfortable to use. Sometimes that might be someone from apartment management, or the pest control company they contract, or anyone else with a master key and a legitimate reason to use it- doesn't mean it's always open season on anyone who comes through the door. Of course you should be notified in advance if anyone from management is to show up on a given day, but that doesn't always happen- I well remember an occasion while I was renting an apartment when there was no notification of someone showing up with a pass key. Of course the poor guy who came through my door after I failed to answer it (working a normal day plus a full shift in the ER the same day will do that) will likely never forget the sight of that satin nickel .45 Commander either... .

I suggest finding her a female trainer. I don't know what it is about the way the female brain is wired, but females communicate differently than males do. It is easier for a woman to teach this stuff to another woman than it is for a man to do it (especially an emotionally significant man), though the female trainers I know still confess that there are certain trainees who still 'just don't get it' no matter how hard the trainers work. I really don't know how to say it any better than that. Better to let someone else handle her training in self defense IMO, no matter who does it.

Good luck with it,

lpl/nc

 

[DirtyBrad]

Thank you all for the responses. What happened was good in that in showed us an area in which we need to be more prepared. We'll keep looking into this and I'm sure it will help us find other areas where we don't have a plan and we'll address them as we do. Thanks again.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I'm still not sure exactly what the best thing to have done was, though. If this guy was casing the grounds for burglary, my thought is that it would be better for him to know someone is home so he wouldn't bust in and find her there. On the other hand, I don't really want anyone knowing that she's there by herself.

What do you guys think is the ideal response to this kind of situation?

If the guy was there to rape her, indicating she was home would be the wrong information to convey to the guy. The problem is that you don't know why the guy was there, good or bad and if bad, what kind of bad.

 

[DirtyBrad]

Double Naught, that's why I liked the idea of turning on the radio/TV. Lets him know someone is home if he's looking to burglarize, but not anything about them in case he's a predator. One concern I had was whether this is common practice, such that a bad guy would knock, hear the TV go on, and realize it was a single woman trying to fool him.

 

[sm]

Lee Lapin's Post
+1

I know all too well about pass keys, be it Apts or Hotel/ Motels.

Simple , inexpenive tools :

Rubber door stop, even a homemade door stop from scrap wood, takes only a second to make a wedge. Another is a $10 metal cane with the abilty to adjust length.

At night, stick the wedge at door so even if Pass key is used, door is 'stuck' shut. Setting that cane in a manner if allowable b/t knob and wall - that door will not open.

Door stop can be on the floor, just shy , and enough to open if need - trouble, door will not open, or at least slow down enough to run to interior somewhere. Door chains and such are easily busted from frames, some BGs have bolt cutters for this very reason.

If someone wants in - they will get in, just a matter of time. This stuff keeps a honest man honest, and HOPEFULLY slows down an dishonest one.

Get one of those door stops that mounts onto door, you have seen these. Just install away from opening a bit more. In some applications, like a home with a wood floor or business with concrete, drill a hole, drop a steel bar into hole. Now I had two holes. One for door shut, and one allowing door to only open about 2". Designed to where a BG could not reach around and pull up bar.

Once one has run to safer area of interior, these door stops, canes, even knocking a dresser over to block door works.

Mindset, willingness to survive needs to be trained and instilled. If involves firearms, that is good too.

 

[DirtyBrad]

sm,

Awesome response, thanks. Unfortunately we have carpet right up to the door, so I don't think a rubber stop will work, but you've got me thinking about creative solutions.

I just posted another thread about securing an interior door, and you've got me thinking about that, too. I really like the hole in the floor idea. I'll give that a whirl once we buy.

 

[sm]

Steve's Odd Tidbits I forget what chapter I put this in...

It is not uncommon to remove a bit of carpet at entry and replace with lineoleum. I mean it does keep the carpet "cleaner". Hey the landlord thought it was a good idea, so I did it. I paid out of pocket and this did not go against me on deposit.

So I forgot to mention I was going to drill two holes in the concrete floor- when I left I just pried up that one pc of tile, pressed and stuck another one in its place.

So did two girls that lived at the same complex, yeah I know the way it is "supposed" to work is girls give guys ideas on "decorating". I like to bend rules if not break them if can. It is that Rebel in me.

I just drilled the holes, stuck PVC, found some steel bars with a "T" Handle.

Landlord liked this idea so much, whenever carpet was replaced, -or- after someone moved and carpet cleaned, this entry-way was done. Seems the entry is where the carpet gets really dirty and messed up.

Oh, the fact that three of us had the same/similar wall decoration behind door..."Antiques" I mean does not everyone have "T" shaped shaped stuff on the wall...like "Grandparents old Stilson wrenches". Hey folks today don't know better.

Mine had a old pc of barn wood and some small rusty tin signs, the girls did silk flowers and wreath thingies. Still think mine looked better...

One girl moved back, Medical Student doing rotations, got her old Apt back,pried up that one tile, still had her T- bars...and thank goodness still had some of original tile... back to security measures as before. Even her l-o-n-g nails were still there in the patio door to keep from being lifted off tracks and her windows too.

The door stops are akin to the ones one sees on double doors in Schools, Businesses and such. Heavy metal that either fold down - or even some "kick down" into a hole in the floor.

The 'kick-down" folding type will wedge against carpet. Take note how folks will PUSH against a door...not thinking "pulling" will release pressure. Many times these kick-down door stops just stay on carpet and though door can be closed, it won't open . Buys time and distance.

Just think like a thief or criminal. Some of the best answers are the easiest and often too obvious.

I do stuff like observe these things, have life experiences, and have been asked to do a walk thru. "Steve, how would you do so and so to my house or business". So I walk thru and see how if wanted to get in, or whatever, I would do.

Best to have another set of eyes and ears at times. One is often not able to see thier own weaknesses.

One HUGE reminder: Training of everyone that lives in that home or works in that business. I mean Practice Drills, lights dim/ out and stressful "what ifs". Take into considerations ages ( kids, elderly) and any all physical limitations.

One has to be able to EXIT!! To many times folks think of keeping Folks OUT and never think THEY may need to exit. Deterrents Keep Folks IN.

Example, not a fan of bars on windows...fire breaks out, you may need to bust that window and EXIT.

Access the whole picture , package and Needs. Think thru it, get another set of eyes to view and go thru it. Then again, TRAIN all and do Practice drills.

Keep mouth shut about security measures. Make sure Everyone in on these knows to keep mouth shut. Illegal eyes and ears see and hear things they should NOT. Ususally from someone saying something they should not.

Next time at a resturarnt, just listen. One can hear alarm codes, where the fake rock out back with extra house key is hidden, the deadbolt is not used just the 'bedroom type lock" is on front door..., spare key to the car in a magnetic spare key holder up under which fender, combo for vehicle dor lock is "1, 3, 5," ...all sorts of stuff from the folks seated around you.

Think Outside the Box.

One may need to keep BG at front door and run like hell out the back.

I lived on second and third floors. Fire especially a concern on the 3rd floor and "what if" I needed to get out? What if BG is out front and he cannot get in and starts busting his way in...

I had bought for cheap a discarded ladder for a SKi boat. Beefed up my back patio railing. I kept this on back deck. Toss over railing and down to second floor. That neighbor ( girl that has security stuff we did for her) kept a big fluffy rope that we fixed for her to "alley-oop" over her railing. Of course it also worked to "alley-oop" UP to my patio.

<huff- puff> "gonna be easier to get down and either hide in woods, get to car, or go bang on other nieghbors door...if a fire...<huff puff> this climbing UP is not fun!" - My younger neighbor downstairs.

Me- Just quoted the line Danny Glover used in Lethal Weapon. Age has its perks *grin*

HTH

Steve.

 

[JohnKSa]

If you don't answer, you may be letting a criminal know that this is an unoccupied dwelling suitable for "shopping" purposes. There was an example of this posted awhile back. Two criminals broke into a dwelling after knocking and receiving no answer. One was highly indignant and blamed his shooting injury on the occupants for not answering the door.

I put a no-soliciting sign on the door to reduce the number of folks knocking.

There is no 100% best answer to this question. Don't open the door unless you're completely satisfied there is no danger, and have a plan for dealing with bad situations.

Video surveillance is pretty cheap these days.

 

[riverdog]

Fortunately we've got a screen door that was built with security in mind. It's not wire screen, more like perforated sheet steel on a steel frame. Regardless, I open the main door and talk through the screen door.

 

[CAnnoneer]

All the training in the world will not help her until she makes the conscious decision that her life is more important than any potential attacker's.

+1

That is the crux of the matter.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Double Naught, that's why I liked the idea of turning on the radio/TV. Lets him know someone is home if he's looking to burglarize, but not anything about them in case he's a predator. One concern I had was whether this is common practice, such that a bad guy would knock, hear the TV go on, and realize it was a single woman trying to fool him.

If he is there to rape her and knows you are off to work, turning on the TV is all he needs to know she is there. Turning on the TV is all the more reason for any person to continue knocking as they now know somebody is there and not coming to the door.

If the person is there to burgle and attempts to make entry and your girlfriend makes noise, that person will likely leave...if that person is wanting to have an unencumbered burglary. It won't matter when she makes noise if the person doesn't want conflict or doesn't want to be seen, he will leave.

From the sounds of things, it sounds like you are more fearful of the apartment being burgled than the girlfriend being victimized. It may be a perfectly valid/realistic concern given what you know about crime in your area. Even so, keep in mind to default to doing more to protect life over property. You can get a new TV and heck, you probably need a new TV anyway. Contrary to what some guys say, it isn't always easy to get a new model girlfriend or a warranty on a used one.

 

[bogie]

Of course, it coulda just been a salesman of some sort. Probably not a big deal.

 

[DirtyBrad]

I'm sure it was just a salesman or something innocuous. I was looking at it more as pointing out a lack of preparedness on our part than a concrete threat.

Obviously I'm aware that a TV is replaceable and I care more about my girlfriend than anything. If I were worried about my stuff more than her, I'd be looking for her to make noise and scare off a burglar, not concerned that she'd be making herself available to a would-be rapist.

The reason I want her to make some noise, as I said, is that I don't want a potential burglar thinking no one's home and then breaking in with her in the house. Nowhere did I say anything about my stuff. The only concern I've voiced in this thread is for my girlfriend.

Whatever I may be ignorant of, I think it's irresponsible and insulting to suggest that I would care more about material possessions than someone I love.

 

[odysseus]

Whatever I may be ignorant of, I think it's irresponsible and insulting to suggest that I would care more about material possessions than someone I love.

Don't take it too much to heart, I too found what he said a bit out of line to jump to that conclusion on you and flame you like that. It's all good.