mid level carry 1911 suggestions anyone?

[harmon rabb]

I already own entirely too many carry guns, but something is eating at me inside. I want a nice, pretty, sweet shooting 1911 for carry.

I have been in love with the Springfield EMP in 9mm for a while and am considering it... but now I have discovered the Dan Wesson Guardian in 9mm, or CCO in .45.

In the $1000-$1500 range for a carry 1911 (no full sizes, only want commander or officer's size), what would you get? I'm open to either .45 or 9mm, although I'm kind of leaning toward 9mm simply because it will be more pleasant to shoot and cheaper to practice with. I trust modern 9mm defensive ammo, so no caliber wars in here thanks

Thoughts?

 

[G27RR]

I would get either a STI Shadow or Escort if you want an Officer size, or an STI ranger II if you want a Commander style. Prices range from abou $850 - $1200 on those models deending on sight options and where you buy them.

Mine have been extremely reliable and very good shooters right out of the box. I carry the Shadow the most, followed by the Ranger II. They re available in .45 or 9mm, but I carry the .45. The reason I have a pair of Ranger IIs is that one is in .45 for carry and the other is in 9mm for cheaper range time. Like I said though, I carry and practice with the Shadow the most.

 

[surjimmy]

Sorry, double post.

 

[surjimmy]

I just listed a new Colt Night Defender in the classified's. Here's a picture.

 

[Quack]

 

[harmon rabb]

Yeah, thanks Quack. That's like deciding which supermodel to sleep with

 

[Quack]

they both carry well, since they both are alloy frames. using a good IWB holster (i use MS VMII's) you don't really notice them. with factory mags they are both 9rd guns. If you sit/drive a lot while carrying, the EMP may be more comfortable since it is shorter. They are both accurate, with the edge to the Guardian. Both are reliable, however the EMP had early issues. I had to adjust the extractor tension on mine, but that was in the first 50rounds and it's been good ever since then (2 years).

Mags are proprietary on the EMP and only available through Springfield.
The Guardian doesn't have MIM and since it uses an Ed Brown grip safety, the hand is a bit higher up on the gun.
EMP has an ambi, Guardian has a single safety.
the Guardian is very well put together.
the EMP has a lifetime warranty.
parts like the firing pin, firing pin spring, extractor, plunger tube, plunger spring, and trigger are also proprietary on the EMP.

 

[CeeZar]

Check out Fusion Firearms, a company run by the man who resurrected Dan Wesson. Drop dead gorgeous guns, since you want "pretty". For lots of pictures and answers to all of your question, check out the Fusion forum on 1911forum dot com

 

[Quack]

With Fusion...
You may get a good one, or you may get a bad one.
You may get what you ordered, or you may get something different.
You may get good service up to the sale, then bad service after or you might get good service all around.

on the 1911Forum all the negative comments get deleted and/or the threads get locked.

 

[harmon rabb]

they both carry well, since they both are alloy frames. using a good IWB holster (i use MS VMII's) you don't really notice them. with factory mags they are both 9rd guns. If you sit/drive a lot while carrying, the EMP may be more comfortable since it is shorter. They are both accurate, with the edge to the Guardian. Both are reliable, however the EMP had early issues. I had to adjust the extractor tension on mine, but that was in the first 50rounds and it's been good ever since then (2 years).

Mags are proprietary on the EMP and only available through Springfield.
The Guardian doesn't have MIM and since it uses an Ed Brown grip safety, the hand is a bit higher up on the gun.
EMP has an ambi, Guardian has a single safety.
the Guardian is very well put together.
the EMP has a lifetime warranty.
parts like the firing pin, firing pin spring, extractor, plunger tube, plunger spring, and trigger are also proprietary on the EMP.

Since it seems you own both... can you post pics of them next to each other, so I can see the relative differences in grip length, grip width, and slide width? Thanks a lot if you can

 

[Quack]

this is the closest pic that i have at the moment.

the Guardian has a 4.25" barrel and the EMP 3"
they are pretty much the same width (both with single safeties), except the EMP will be wider with the stock ambi safety.
both come with slim grips.
the grip itself is longer on the Guardian. right where the bob starts is about where the EMP grip ends.

 

[harmon rabb]

Beautiful guns. How do you compare them at the range? Both have excellent triggers, I expect?

 

[Quack]

the Guardian has a better stock trigger. i cleaned up the EMP and it's similar now.

@7yards, they are similar.
@15yards, the Guardian is more accurate (in my hands).

There were shot on different trip. 2-handed, no support. both had 1st round fliers high right.

EMP @ 15yards (round to the left was shooter error)


Guardian @ 15 yards.

 

[G27RR]

Don't forget that you can often "pretty" up a gun just by changing the grips, so if you like a certain pistol but not its looks, consider a grip change. Compare this shot of my Escort to the stock grips in my ealrier picture.

 

[Supertac45]

Save a couple of hundred more and get a Les Baer Commanche.

 

[Quack]

The Commanche was not "designed" to sling shot, so if that is how the OP trains, the Commanche may not be a good choice.

 

[G27RR]

The Commanche was not "designed" to sling shot, so if that is how the OP trains, the Commanche may not be a good choice.

Interesting. What's the problem with it? I haven't encountered any other 1911s that tell you not to slingshot them.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I wouldn't even look pass either of the two that Quack posted...they would be my choices

 

[9mmepiphany]

Interesting. What's the problem with it? I haven't encountered any other 1911s that tell you not to slingshot them.

I'm not Quack, but I would think he is referring to this:

The Comanche frame is pretty much a Government Model frame with the dust cover shortened; in other words, the rear impact surface is not properly located. The fix is easy for any competent 1911 gunsmith; however, it involves grinding metal

 

[Quack]

rather than typing it out, here's some reading for you...this is just Baer's that are "designed" not to slingshot.

here's one of the many threads on the topic.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=76359

Originally Posted by John Harrison
I am not assuming to speak for Baer, but would offer this guess. They are not taking the extra steps needed to give their shorter guns full Commander spec rearward travel because it would require several additional steps in machining and manufacture. It might require stocking extra Commander spec components. I am guessing that they choose to leave these steps off because they think their shorter guns run okay without the full rearward travel that Commanders have. Some of them do and clearly, some don't. As far as I know, they are the only manufacturer that takes this short cut. Why they do it is none of my business.

The Commander (even when built to Colt specs) has a little over .100" less rearward travel than a Government Model. When you start taking away rearward travel, you change the point where the empty case is brought into contact with the ejector as well as how much more travel beyond that point is available. When you change the Commander system by leaving the recoil spring seat at the Gov't Model location, you take away another .100" of rearward travel. I'm not an engineer, but I know that if you don't let the case meet the ejector about .450" or more before the slide stops, then the energy that is smacking the case rim and launching the empty out of the pistol is reduced and ejection consistency and reliability will suffer.

I have reached the conclusion that in most Commanders and Officers pistols, the ejector nose should be approx. .280" forward of the front mounting leg. That's what I've measured from a number of Colt Commanders. Not all aftermarket ejectors have a nose that long. When you use an ejector with this nose length, you may have difficulty ejecting live rounds and need extra clearance at the front wall of the ejection port.

To make a non-spec gun to Commander spec takes a boring bar operation to face back the seat for the recoil spring guide by .100" to make it Commander spec. The lower barrel feet also have to be reshaped to Commander spec by removing a bit of steel from the front face, so it doesn't bump into the back side of the spring guide. The "button" in the center rear of the spring guide must be shortened to Commander spec for the same reason. Finally, the ejector should be set up as mentioned earlier.

for those that are not Familiar with John Harrison
http://www.harrisoncustom.com/

 

[harmon rabb]

I don't slingshot. Not an issue.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't slingshot. Not an issue.

That would be fine for a range toy, but I thought you said in your OP that this was a handgun for carry

or...

Are you saying that you don't practice any kind of manual slide retraction to release the slide and chamber a round?

 

[G27RR]

Thanks for the explanations, I'd never seriously shopped for Les Baers so hadn't read up on them in much detail. I personally don't like pistols I can't slingshot. Not that it's the only method I use, but I would sure want the option.

 

[harmon rabb]

That would be fine for a range toy, but I thought you said in your OP that this was a handgun for carry

or...

Are you saying that you don't practice any kind of manual slide retraction to release the slide and chamber a round?
__________________

I hit the slide release and practice doing that quickly. Is that some issue?

 

[Quack]

while i don't have a Baer (and don't plan on it), i wonder if the slingshot issue would still be present say if you have to clear a malfunction and have to manually rack the slide?

i think this what 9mmepiphany is getting at...
with the overhand "slingshot" method (grabbing the top of the slide with you support hand so that the thumb is pointing towards you) to clear a malfunction. this movement can clear a variety of malfunctions, like a FTFeed, a dud round, or slide lock and is a muscle memory thing that you will instinctively do if you train doing it.

also if you have to use a gun other than your primary autoloader and the slide release isn't large enough (like a Glock w/o extended lever), it may take you longer to chamber that round by having to get to the lever that may not be in the same position as another autoloader. The slingshot will work with every autoloader.

but it all comes down to practicing your technique