Might as well sell the rimfires!!!
- Thread starter SP2000
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You could offer $1,000 per round of 22 LR and it wouldn't make a hill of beans on production. The factories are flat out running their machines and running 3 shifts a day to produce them.
First there is only three companies here in the USA that produce them, some of that production is sold under different names but the number of producers is very limited.
Second, the machines that they are produced on where made in the 1930's before World War II and new equipment is extremely unlikely to be made since the number of producers is very limited (3) and the machines are extremely expensive to build.
Third, while millions of rounds are produced daily at these plants. The piggies that buy up every thing on the shelves have made it impossible for the retailers to restock their shelves and keep supplies in stock.
That quote by FDR, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" is exactly what is happening now.
So suck it up and stop shooting 22 LR till the fear subsides or get ready to pay more for 22 LR per round than 9 mm. 22 LR is the single largest (quantity) selling round in the United States.
Jim
First there is only three companies here in the USA that produce them, some of that production is sold under different names but the number of producers is very limited.
Second, the machines that they are produced on where made in the 1930's before World War II and new equipment is extremely unlikely to be made since the number of producers is very limited (3) and the machines are extremely expensive to build.
Third, while millions of rounds are produced daily at these plants. The piggies that buy up every thing on the shelves have made it impossible for the retailers to restock their shelves and keep supplies in stock.
That quote by FDR, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" is exactly what is happening now.
So suck it up and stop shooting 22 LR till the fear subsides or get ready to pay more for 22 LR per round than 9 mm. 22 LR is the single largest (quantity) selling round in the United States.
Jim
Carl N. Brown
Member
I am so glad that anti-gun thetoric in the 1960s prompted me to maintain a two to five year supply in reserve of every caliber I use (buy when cheap, rotate old stock to front).
According to a poll, one of five target shooters (formal and informal) took up shooting as a sport in the past couple of years; apparently the ban talk lead to an interest in guns, and those millions of additional NICS BG checks at dealers represent new shooters buying guns and ammo for the first time.
Patience. This panic should sunside.
According to a poll, one of five target shooters (formal and informal) took up shooting as a sport in the past couple of years; apparently the ban talk lead to an interest in guns, and those millions of additional NICS BG checks at dealers represent new shooters buying guns and ammo for the first time.
Patience. This panic should sunside.
SP2000;
Nah! I'd probably glut the market. And I do shoot them also. I've also sold some .22 ammo to help people out, and not at scalper's prices either. Relax, things will improve though I strongly doubt that prices will return to pre-scare levels. A large reason I've been able to weather the insanity as well as I have is that I tend to buy .22lr by the case & don't think it's overkill to have multiple cases. Current events have proven my attitude to be correct, at least for me.
900F
Nah! I'd probably glut the market. And I do shoot them also. I've also sold some .22 ammo to help people out, and not at scalper's prices either. Relax, things will improve though I strongly doubt that prices will return to pre-scare levels. A large reason I've been able to weather the insanity as well as I have is that I tend to buy .22lr by the case & don't think it's overkill to have multiple cases. Current events have proven my attitude to be correct, at least for me.
900F
Torian
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That was news to me. Interesting. Where did you found out about this?
So now we know what the gun grabbers have to do in order to divide and conquer.
oneounceload
member
The demand, as mentioned, is sky high - the profit margin on 9mm, 40 and 45 far outweighs .22.
The panic folks and those who allow the flippers to stand in line and buy it all only exacerbate the issue
Some companies only run certain things once a year
Retooling the line for something else results in downtime, lost production and increased costs; I suspect when they get caught up with the pistol ammo, they will start on rimfire
In the last shortage .22 was about the only ammo a person could get. There was only about one month that I couldn't buy pretty much all the .22 ammo I wanted. Now I can buy pretty much everything except .22. This makes me question all the theories about what ammo gets produced. When someone says the profit margin on centerfire is much higher I wonder why I can buy all the .223 I want for pre-panic prices while .22 is much higher even at places that try to hold down the prices. They are paying more for their .22 too so they have to sell it for more. It seems to me they are making more money on rimfire ammo. But if they produce more of it they won't make as much per round and I have to wonder if the ammo makers aren't keeping production low to keep prices high. I have no proof of that but hey, it's the net. Who needs proof?
In the last shortage .22 was about the only ammo a person could get. There was only about one month that I couldn't buy pretty much all the .22 ammo I wanted. Now I can buy pretty much everything except .22. This makes me question all the theories about what ammo gets produced. When someone says the profit margin on centerfire is much higher I wonder why I can buy all the .223 I want for pre-panic prices while .22 is much higher even at places that try to hold down the prices. They are paying more for their .22 too so they have to sell it for more. It seems to me they are making more money on rimfire ammo. But if they produce more of it they won't make as much per round and I have to wonder if the ammo makers aren't keeping production low to keep prices high. I have no proof of that but hey, it's the net. Who needs proof?
PLEASE link me to this supposed .223 (5.56 preferred).
Thank you in advance.
PS: Pre panic prices...I bought PMC Bronze .223 at $300/1,000 and Prvi Partizan M193 5.56 at $320/1,000 late last year, so that is pre panic pricing
huntsman
Member
don't sell your rimfire guns that just passes the problem around the gun world, instead better to turn them in at a buy back program for silly vouchers or better yet just shootem less often and cherish each little pop from the popguns.
or better yet just shootem less often and cherish each little pop from the popguns. jcwit
member
No retooling or down time required for rimfire ammo. Two complete different operations, two completely different machines.. Rimfire is running 24/7 just as centerfire is also.
You know, I keep seeing this "ammo is getting much better" comment pop up on this forum and I am beginning to believe that I must live in the absolute worst area on the face of the earth for ammo! It just isn't available here -- 9mm or .380 that is. Not at Sportsman's WHouse, or Dick's, or Academy, or WMart or the LGS.
Weather will be turning cooler soon and I may just take golf back up and forget shooting till 2014.
I should have said that .22lr and 9mm are the last to return.
Best option right now that I am aware of
http://www.targetsportsusa.com/p-10...r-115-grain-full-metal-jacket-ammunition.aspx
Remington is opening a new plant in Lonoke, AR to keep up with production. You have to put this on the AR in .22 LR platform. Seems all the "good guys" are training with them instead of the .223. Therefore, there goes the supply to the public. Same gun, same weight. Just not in a centerfire.
I hate .22 LR ARs for that reason. Sissy's. If they can't shoot a .223 and have to train with .22 LR. How good are they gonna be in the field when it come time to go BANG!
I hate .22 LR ARs for that reason. Sissy's. If they can't shoot a .223 and have to train with .22 LR. How good are they gonna be in the field when it come time to go BANG!
Something is going on.
People say the hoarders are snapping the .22 stuff up but the reality in my area is there isn't enough .22 coming in to begin with and all the retailers have huge backorders of the stuff.
When it does come in, it's a 5000 or 5500 round case and one case only and that just doesn't last very long even with buy limits.
People say the hoarders are snapping the .22 stuff up but the reality in my area is there isn't enough .22 coming in to begin with and all the retailers have huge backorders of the stuff.
When it does come in, it's a 5000 or 5500 round case and one case only and that just doesn't last very long even with buy limits.
Inebriated
Member
.223 DOES have a punishing recoil, that's for sure!
You and I both although we're states apart. Living in a rural area is even more frustrating. In town once a week, at best, and every time I hit a few locations they are dry.
Mail order, however, is looking promising and has some in stock if you pay attention so better than having no choice.
So my question would be, why even buy a new rimfire? I should have bought a 22 hornet. Do you all think this rimfire shortage will really hurt rimfire gun sales and hunting license sales? I can tell u I've bought my last rimfire gun. Most don't reload so that should be a little more available. Can you even imagine if (god forbid) there was another school shooting?
Well I never bought .223 by the case so I can't speak for the prices you were getting. But the PMC I see is selling for exactly the same price it was this time last year. I have some in my safe I bought for plinking. I generally like to buy higher quality ammo for target shooting but that I haven't seen. Still I've seen Remington (bulk and target), Hornady, Federal, etc. with the smaller boxes not costing any more than before. I haven't seen anywhere near the variety I saw before the panic but I haven't bought any .223 for about 2 months because I have all I need (about 500-1000 rounds or more - I haven't really counted it). I bought about half of that since June.
I did find this PMC 5.56 for $460 x 1000. I'm not familiar with that particular type of their ammo. I never saw PMC for $300 X 1000 so I have no idea where to look for it at that price. Again I only bought small quantities of that and most other ammo. The only thing I bought a lot of was Black Hills stuff which was never that cheap. It was very accurate in my varmint rifle though. I still have a good supply of it but not all I would like of course. I don't know that there is such a thing as all I want.
I'd guess that I would probably think a million rounds was enough but that's not gonna happen. I also found this PMC .223 for $470 which is the same type of their ammo I've bought over the years. I was paying $9 for a box of 20 of this stuff a year ago and I can still buy it for that price today. So for me it is still the price I was paying a year ago. Maybe I paid too much back then but I never bought in large quantities
I work for a newspaper, as a graphic artist, I design ads, and keep the computers running.
Winchester has a plant 30 miles away in Oxford, Ms.
I build their classified ads for employment.
They have added a new rimfire line this spring at that plant, capable of cranking out 1.2MILLION rounds a day at top speed, but like all machines they don't run as reliably or as accurate at top speed.
In talking to the line foreman about a new ad, I asked what their daily production ACTUALLY was.
They nominally crank out 1MILLION rounds per day, of .22 alone, 3 shifts, 24/7.
Give or take a few for downtime, or to replace a machine that goes out of spec.
He says they have at least 3 of each critical operation, 1 running, 1 waiting to go on line if the running one breaks or goes out of spec, and 1 being serviced/repaired.
So they are being made, just it being the most popular round there is (worldwide), and a lot of people training with it that never did before the crunch/scare.
They truly just can't keep up with the demand.
Winchester has a plant 30 miles away in Oxford, Ms.
I build their classified ads for employment.
They have added a new rimfire line this spring at that plant, capable of cranking out 1.2MILLION rounds a day at top speed, but like all machines they don't run as reliably or as accurate at top speed.
In talking to the line foreman about a new ad, I asked what their daily production ACTUALLY was.
They nominally crank out 1MILLION rounds per day, of .22 alone, 3 shifts, 24/7.
Give or take a few for downtime, or to replace a machine that goes out of spec.
He says they have at least 3 of each critical operation, 1 running, 1 waiting to go on line if the running one breaks or goes out of spec, and 1 being serviced/repaired.
So they are being made, just it being the most popular round there is (worldwide), and a lot of people training with it that never did before the crunch/scare.
They truly just can't keep up with the demand.
ColtPythonElite
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I got two cases of .22lr last week. Granted, it was higher end target ammo. At least I shooting, instead of crying the blues.
Well I never bought .223 by the case so I can't speak for the prices you were getting. But the PMC I see is selling for exactly the same price it was this time last year. I have some in my safe I bought for plinking. I generally like to buy higher quality ammo for target shooting but that I haven't seen. Still I've seen Remington (bulk and target), Hornady, Federal, etc. with the smaller boxes not costing any more than before. I haven't seen anywhere near the variety I saw before the panic but I haven't bought any .223 for about 2 months because I have all I need (about 500-1000 rounds or more - I haven't really counted it). I bought about half of that since June.
I did find this PMC 5.56 for $460 x 1000. I'm not familiar with that particular type of their ammo. I never saw PMC for $300 X 1000 so I have no idea where to look for it at that price. Again I only bought small quantities of that and most other ammo. The only thing I bought a lot of was Black Hills stuff which was never that cheap. It was very accurate in my varmint rifle though. I still have a good supply of it but not all I would like of course. I don't know that there is such a thing as all I want.
I also found this PMC .223 for $470 which is the same type of their ammo I've bought over the years. I was paying $9 for a box of 20 of this stuff a year ago and I can still buy it for that price today. So for me it is still the price I was paying a year ago. Maybe I paid too much back then but I never bought in large quantities
$460/1,000 is NOT pre panic pricing. Not even close.
$470 is even worse.
$9/20 is NOT pre panic pricing.
If you were paying $0.45 per round for PMC .223 a year ago, well, I hate to break it to you, but you were getting ripped off pretty hardcore.
The short of it is that 5.56/.223 are NOT currently available for pre panic pricing. Still a ways to go there.
First off, I there is a large number of 22 mag guns now on the market. People bought them up when 22lr became scarce and now that ammo is back ordered in most stores. It will come back, but I believe it will take a while.
As for the 22lr. I live in MN and I have seen plenty available locally. Personally I need this stuff to run beginner classes. My local Walmart has been getting a ever increasing supply at about 6¢ ea. with a three box limit regardless of size of container, and I have been buying it steadily for over six months. My local Gander Mountain just raise their limit to ten boxes and last week they got in CCI mini mag 100rd boxes at $79.00/thousand rounds. Slightly higher prices? Yes, but let the back orders fill and it will come down.
I hope so as I just added a third Ruger MK to my collection that the previous owner sold because of short supply worries. Full Volquartsen innards this weekend and this thing fun to shoot.
As for the 22lr. I live in MN and I have seen plenty available locally. Personally I need this stuff to run beginner classes. My local Walmart has been getting a ever increasing supply at about 6¢ ea. with a three box limit regardless of size of container, and I have been buying it steadily for over six months. My local Gander Mountain just raise their limit to ten boxes and last week they got in CCI mini mag 100rd boxes at $79.00/thousand rounds. Slightly higher prices? Yes, but let the back orders fill and it will come down.
I hope so as I just added a third Ruger MK to my collection that the previous owner sold because of short supply worries. Full Volquartsen innards this weekend and this thing fun to shoot.
wally
Member
Maybe that's a sign of improvement, but when you've been shooting 2-3000 rounds of .22lr a month, 550 per trip to the store is just not going to help -- who's got time and gas to burn running all around in the hopes of maybe finding a box of ammo
Time better spent reloading and shooting more centerfire.When I can expect to walk out of Walmart with 6 boxes (3000 rounds) or order 5000 on line then we've returned to some semblance of sanity.
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