Mil-Surp 7.62X51 - Which?

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Werewolf

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The dealer I use for mil-surp ammo has recently acquired a fair amount of NATO 7.62X51.

He has lots from South Africa, Portugal and Australia.

I'm not terribly familiar with what's what in this cartridge but since I'm acquiring a Garand next Tuesday chambered in .308 (not historical but I'm lazy and don't really wanna order ammo over the internet) I figure I probably should become familiar with what countries make the best ammo. (don't have that problem with 5.56 as I buy Federal XM-193 as it's all the dealer ever has).

The stuff comes in 200 round battle pack bandoliers. He's selling the Australian stuff for $48 or so for 200 rounds. The dealer didn't mention a price on the South African or Portugese stuff. Is the price mentioned OK.

So what should I buy?

Oh...
One last question. I'm pretty sure than Win .308 and 7.62 NATO are interchangeable but would like to know for sure.
 
All 3 are excellent plinking fodder. The Portugese seems to group the best out of M14/M1As with the Aussie a close second and the South African a decent 3rd.

All should do you proud.

Another surplus country to look for is the Santa Barbara from Spain.

Stay away from the Indian surplus though. Compared to the others it's junk. Some people have had decent luck with some of the lots, but overall it's complete crap and not worth the aggravation or the possibility of a damaged gun.
 
By avoiding the internet you are spending about $75 extra per 1000 rounds. It's your money, so it doesn't bother me, but Dansammo.com and aimsurplus.com will leave it at your doorstep and all you have to do is send a copy of your driver's license for proof of age.

All three countries you mention are excellent for .308.
Never buy ammo if the country of origin is not listed in the advertisement.
 
Ammoman is one of the most expensive online dealers. I think they stay in business because people can remember their name and the high profits they make on ammo. Dansammo starts at $125 for a case of Austrailian and it will cost about $20 to ship it. Portugese at AIM is $150 plus $20 to ship for 1,000 rounds = $170/1,000 compared to Ammoman's $180 for 800 rounds delivered.
 
I have a modest supply of the British Radway Green from the 80's that is good, accurate ammo.
 
He has lots from South Africa, Portugal and Australia.
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Get the one that's cheapest. All three are good.

I shoot all three through my FAL and Garand. They shoot pretty much equally. I guess I do like the Aussie stuff the best because it comes on clips in bandoleers. Kinda cool.

One or two of these are steel cored, if that matters to you. I think the Portugese is, not sure about the others.
 
I"ve been buying Aussie from Sportsmans Guide for 135 for 800 rounds blister packed. They're right in St. Paul so I just drive down and pick it up. Ends up about 143 with sales tax tho.

Been running it thru my FAL and no problems, clean too. After 400 rounds and you could barely tell I fired anything.
 
RE the Indian....can you post some links to back up these damaged guns claims?
I can pick Indian up here pretty cheap but if there's any truth or documented cases of it being bad or damaging my rifle I'll pass on it.
So let's have it, truth with proof or internet BS that someone heard from someones sisters ex boyfriends third cousin twice removed.
 
A friend offered me some Indian real cheap but due to the reputation it has I wouldn't even touch the stuff. The only benefit is that it is boxer primed and thus reloadable. But I think the dangers outweigh the benefit. Wish I could find some Hirtenberger (sp?) it is reloadable as well.
 
RepublicanMan wrote:
So let's have it, truth with proof or internet BS that someone heard from someones sisters ex boyfriends third cousin twice removed.
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Hey, use what you like. This is just an advisory forum. You are not compelled to follow anyone's advice if you think you have a better idea. You can buy all of my allotment of the Indian ammo. Shoot all of it you want. I've tried it and found it unsatisfactory for several reasons. I won't buy surplus ammo from a country where I don't feel safe drinking the water. JMHO of course and YMMV.;)
 
So let's have it, truth with proof or internet BS that someone heard from someones sisters ex boyfriends third cousin twice removed.
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Here's how it works.

Several folks have said the Indian ammo is garbage. Now, you know that there MIGHT be a problem with the Indian ammo. If this POSSIBLE problem concerns you, then you should probably do some research*. If it doesn't, then you shouldn't give it a second thought.

*Accusing someone of posting "internet BS" in an attempt to get them to do your research for you is not the same as doing some research.
 
I have shot all three from a M-14. The SA I got was I think M1A2 in the brown battle packs. I don't know if it was a little hot or what, but I had my rifle rip the rims clean off several cases, never happened with any other ammo. On the bright side I shot a 1.5 inch 20 rd group with it at 200 yards with a bolt gun I no longer own. POI was a foot off the 168 I was shooting, but it all went into the same place.

The Port for me has been very accurate. Same with the Aussie stuff, reliable function too. I'd take either.
 
*Accusing someone of posting "internet BS" in an attempt to get them to do your research for you is not the same as doing some research.
Click to expand...

I don't need anyone to do any research for me bud, I'll do it myself, with my rifle and with the Indian that I bought to try out.
So far, 500 rounds, not a single problem out of a.....GASP......Cetme, a rifle notorious (according to the internet commandos) for being junk and not working well.

Hmmm........gee, maybe, just possibly, just because a few people have problems and post about them on the internet, all this ammo and all these rifles aren't junk after all.

Hey, thanks for your analysys though, it was quite insightful Dr. Freud.
 
Hey, all we've been saying is that the Indian surplus stuff has been known to be more troublesome than most other surplus out there, whether we have found this out first hand or have heard about it through friends and this board. If you've found a combination that works, more power to you. Use it and be happy. Live long and prosper. whatever. As for the CETME. I belive a lot of them around were built by Century Arms, whose quality control is hit or miss (I certainly wouldn't buy a FAL from them). Although I will admit I do not know whose yours was built by. Personally I have shot a CETME that didn't work so well (although I belive this was due to the owner not maintaining it as he should) but yet I don't look down on the breed as a whole. anyway, good luck to you with your Indian surplus and your CETME
 
Thrash, it's an early production CAI (Century) with the wood and muzzle brake.

The point I am trying to make is that believing everything you read on the web isn't such a great idea....I would submit that providing proof from personal experience and not just from what you've "heard" on here would be a good way to proceed as opposed to just calling something junk because you've heard that it's junk.

Several people posted their personal experiences with the Indian ammo and I give credence to what they have to say, others merely mimic what they've heard from some third party source and therefore merit little to no serious consideration when making a decision.
 
I don't need anyone to do any research for me bud, I'll do it myself, with my rifle and with the Indian that I bought to try out.
So far, 500 rounds, not a single problem...
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If every single round was defective, there wouldn't even be a discussion. Clearly, at least SOME of the rounds are safe to shoot. Let's say that one out of every 26,357 (just picked this number out of the air) rounds is a hand grenade. Then you'd expect to see some negative posts on the internet since there are lots of people buying and using this ammo. But, if you only shoot 500 rounds of the stuff then YOUR odds of actually blowing up a gun are less than 1 in 50.

That's the whole point of gun forums. You don't have to destroy your own equipment to gain knowledge. Chances are, someone else has already been through it and will be happy to share what they've learned.

---Experience is a hard teacher, but some will accept no other---
 
Guys, FWIW, I have shot some of this Indian ammo. It was pure junk, jammed up the gun every way possible and some duds as well. This was out of a known good working rifle that was OK with Port & SA. The stuff was totally unreliable. YMMV.
 
Reasons I avoid Indian:

1. I have read accounts of posters on falfiles who destroyed rifles with Indian ammo.
2. India is selling 5 year old ammo in their main caliber and replacing it with new ammo.
3. India is at risk of nuclear war with Pakistan, yet did I mention they are surplussing 5 year old ammo?
4. Companies advertise the nation of origin of all their .308 EXCEPT Indian for which they forget to include the country of origin.

I hope the Indian works out well for you, but do wear your glasses.
 
When there are multiple reports of a certain problem from people who have experienced it first hand then I think it would serve as a warning to those of us who may not have used it yet. Personally, due to the number of problems reported with Indian ammo I have decided to avoid putting it through my gun. If you want to use Indian in your own guns then that is fine with me. Hopefully you will continue to get lucky and not find any duds or hand grenades in the mix. However it does have the advantage of being very cheap and reloadable.
 
I've been shooting Port with mmy CETME - about 300-400 rounds and no problems. A reasonable price on the 200 packs in DFW seems to be $30 - 35. The local CTD store is selling 160 battle packs of the Ausie kind for $29.

In a recent post about accuracy of mil surplus most had best results with Ausie and Port.

As for the indian - I have heard/read bad reports and seen pics of bad rounds but also read some good reports that seem to suggest it was a time of manufacture related problem. I have not run across indian yet so I'm not sure how much cheaper it actually is.

Nik
 
Based on y'alls responses I bought 400 rounds of Portugese. Cost me $38.75 per 200 which was only a dollar more than the cheapest internet site I found based on y'alls recomendations.

I shot about a hundred of it out of my new Springfield Armory M1 Garand Sunday. Zero problems, nada and had a blast.

I know that 96 rounds isn't much but to the SA M1 naysayers I say :neener: ! ;)

It was a quite windy day for doing a zero but I had to do it (about 10 to 15kts wind blowing from right to left). I started out at 50 yards and set the elevation to 6 clicks (zero procedure says 8 to 12 for 100 yards to start). I was a bit high at 11 o'clock but in the black on a small bore 100 yd target with a 2" group of 8 (firing while sitting in a chair elbow on a table - not the most steady position but one uses the tools at hand). I adjusted the elevation down 2 clicks and figured the wind blew the bullets to the left so I didn't monkey with the front sight (supposed to zero on a windless day).

Fired another group of 8 and elevation was right on. I fired another 32 rounds without incident from standing and sitting positions. From standing I could keep the hits in the black (10" circle) and from sitting could maintain about 5" to 6" groups. For me, with a 9.5 lb rifle that was pretty good (the big grin on my face was noted by my wife who was there watching).

Then I moved off to the 100 yd range. I put up two 100 yd small bore targets. I sat the elevation to 8 clicks. Using the sitting in chair position I fired 4 rounds at each. In both cases all four rounds were in the black about an inch high and centered a couple of inches to the left (group size around 4 to 5 inches). I adjusted the windage knob two clicks to the right and shot 4 more rounds at each target. The center of the groups moved to right but weren't centered on the bull (close enough for me).

After that I shot another 32 rounds (16 each target) but my old muscles were beginning to feel the weight of that 9.5 lb rifle and the groups opened up considerably (I kept 7 of 8 in that 10" black circle though).

I'm a convert! I haven't had that much fun shooting a rifle since I first shot an M-16 in basic 33 years ago.

The old guy who runs the range chided me in a friendly manner for not buying a CMP one and pointed out that he's seen 4 SA's in the last year develop cracked receivers. He showed me where to look to check for that.

The only other thing that might be questionable about the rifle is that I was under the impression when loading it that the bolt would slam forward pretty hard when the clip was fully inserted. On mine the bolt moves forward and then stops. I have to manually push the bolt forward to chamber the first round. It's easier on the ole thumb that way but I'm not sure that is the way the thing is supposed to operate. I fired a total of 96 rounds with 0 problems. I'm satisfied with the SA .308 M1 Garand (at least for now - if it develops a cracked receiver my attitude will change).
 
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