Mil-surp worth scoping?

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rugerdude

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I realized today that I will have some cash to work with come next gunshow, and I was thinking of a long range gun (500-600 yards minute of torso, say 10"x10").

I can't really afford a savage .308 and scope, so I'm thinking of mil-surps.

I have already scoped my No.4Mk.1* Lee Enfield, but I have yet to see how well it shoots. However, I really love the looks and handling of it.

So, are there any mil-surp rifles out there worth "sniper-izing", or will they simply not be worth the scope that's mounted on them? Also, how difficult will it be to mount a scope?

I'm thinking or a yugo mauser at the moment, but I have no idea how accurate those are. I am not interested in the K-31 at this point because of the lack of cheap ammo. I will handload for whatever rifle I get, but I still want to be able to shoot cheaply at shorter ranges.

EDIT: I already have a mosin nagant, and am un-impressed with it's accuraccy, so I'd rather not scope it.

Thanks in advance,
-rugerdude
 
Well, by the time you buy the rifle, have it drilled and tapped, have the bolt bent, install aftermarket stock and install a Timney trigger, it would have been cheaper to buy the ready-to-go Savage.
 
I scoped my yugo mauser 24/47. Glad I did it. Got the mount from iron elite. It's a great way to scope withput bubbaing the rifle. At 100 yards with romanian 1970's surplus I can shoot sub 2" groups. Haven't done much further distance yet.

Worry about the bore above all else. And get a good scope.
 
Forgot to point out that I've got $150 in the mount alone. Add that to a good scope (150-200 minimum) and the $60 trigger upgrade (I kept the original one) and you should just get the savage...
 
It can be worth it, but you'd probably be better off buying a new sporting rifle. There are some that are very reasonably priced.

I got with my Savage .30-06 with 3-9x30 Simmons scope for $350. I feel that it was a very good deal.

Another good buy is the Mossberg 100ATR, available in .30-06 Springfield, and .308 Win (among others).
 
"...a savage .308 and scope..." Look into a used Savage. With the exception of the purpose built sniper rifles, No.4's don't take to scoping well. None of the aftermarket scope mounts work very well. Especially the 'no gunsmithing' types. Plus, if it's a rifle in full military configuration, drilling and tapping will drop its value in half.
 
can be done

I bought my 1903 turk for $50. Now this gun was a premo, perfect bore and all.
I had it drilled and tapped with a lowered safety and bent bolt all for $94 bucks. I put on my own redfield mount and old scope.

I have only about $200 in this whole gun and it will print less then 5/8 groups all day with reloads.


steve
 
I was intending to keep the stock and trigger. All I would need is a mount, a more bent bolt, and a scope ($100 4x nikon).

Even if I couldn't afford to scope it at the time I purchased it, I would at least have a shooter until I saved more money. Also, if all things were equal, I'd pick a mil-surp over a savage just because the mil-surp will have more character.

I also have no concern for dropping the rifle's value because I buy my guns to keep, not to sell later.
 
It can be done.

It will probably cost more than the rifle is currently worth (depending on the rifle), and the final product will probably be worth even less than the new-build rifle would cost. There are also no assurances that the "improved" rifle will perform as well as a new-build. It will require work, which you might enjoy or might hate, or that you might screw up. Or, you could pay someone else to do it, and lose more money in the exchange.

In short, it makes zero economic sense. However, if you just want to do it because you want to do it, have at it. Some things you do just because. If your base rifle is in full military trim, you just reduced the finite supply of "proper" milsurps by one.

I'd save up for the Savage, or bite the bullet and get the K31 and some GP11. The K31 has a readily available no-drill scope mount that really works as advertised, has a great trigger, is accurate as heck, and can be further accurized at minimal cost. The GP11 is not insanely priced, but it is berdan primed.

Mike
 
I'm not into guns for the economics. I don't play the "buy it to sell it later" game. I think I would enjoy a 2 or 3 MOA scoped mil-surp more than a 1MOA generic hunting rifle.

I don't need the gun to perform like a new-build gun, just to perform well enough to make me happy. I also don't think people are going to start collecting rifles that came from a country who's guns were just copies of better countries' guns.

Also, I don't mind putting more into the mount and scope than I did into the gun if it gives me a decent scoped rifle for about as much as a new production gun.

I will need to stop by academy sometime to see what the new-production guns will cost me though.
 
The milsurp snobs will serve up that same old tired "Buy a used Savage" garbage no matter what you tell 'em. I like having something different than every other guy on the firing line shoots, and prefer a nice Mosin-Nagant myself (ballistically superior to the 8mm at long ranges, too), but overall, a Mauser is probably a better choice, especially if you want the flexibility to rebarrel it some day. Have a ball, and enjoy your shooting...
 
Don't be put off by the ammo for that K31.

Brass can be purchased in bulk--200 cases should last a long, long time. And, you ARE aware that the bullet used is a common, domestic caliber .30 projectile, aren't you? :evil: :D
 
This is why I finally got a k-31. I'm not sure of loads yet but IMHO you could probably match a .308 balistically with the K-31 7.5x55. That's something to consider. That and the swiss guns are an awesome choice.

Anyone know about the loads of the k-31 compared to the .308/7.62 Nato?
 
Maybe a mauser sporter.

I found a Mauser that is chambered in .270 and had a scope on it for $200, delivered. Scope is only a Tasco, but it's held it's zero fine for one season of hunting use. Only additional fee was the $10 FFL transfer. They are out there. All the bent bolt, new barrel and fitted stock work was done for me already.

This one shoots sub 1" groups with factory ammo during sight in. Person I bought it from was getting 1/2" groups out of it. That's a bargain to me.

I'm not real educated on Mausers, but I was told that the swedish mausers have the smoothest bolt action and the best accuracy. I can't substantiate this with my own experience, but this gun shoots better than I do....all day.
 
That data is dated. First go here...... http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/loaddata.html
Then here........ http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/data.html

Then here, if you need to............

http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/reload1.htm

And please do understand that Swiss brass is available and no more expensive than most other cases. If you prefer, you can easily substitute .284 cases.

Scoping? There's no production military bolt action ever made thats more accurate than the k31 without a scope. Add a scope and you get............ ??

Drilled and Tapped method.

drilltap.jpg

Or the Clamp-On Mount.

clampon1.gif

k31
 
In short, it makes zero economic sense. However, if you just want to do it because you want to do it, have at it. Some things you do just because.
Click to expand...
This is one of the reasons I like using "no gunsmith" mounts. For one, you might not be all that impressed with how the rifle shoots. Just remove the mount and no harm done.

I have also found it's fun to compare the accuracy of my different rifles. I can put the scope on one for a while, shoots some groups, document the rifle and ammo, then swap the scope to another rifle and do the same. Once I find the best shooter, I keep the scope there.
 
I am not interested in the K-31 at this point because of the lack of cheap ammo. I will handload for whatever rifle I get, but I still want to be able to shoot cheaply at shorter ranges.
Click to expand...
Swiss GP-11 is not really expensive. Get a few cases to stock up. I purchased a case a month for a little while and now have over 3k rounds stashed. It's much better ammo than any other surplus on the market. Better than most commercial in fact. 8mm and 7.62x54R surplus are garbage compared to GP11.

So, are there any mil-surp rifles out there worth "sniper-izing", or will they simply not be worth the scope that's mounted on them? Also, how difficult will it be to mount a scope?
Click to expand...
I'd highly recommend the Swiss K31 or a Mosin Nagant M39. Scoping the K31 is easy. The M39 would require a little creativity unless you go with a Scout type scope mount.
 
Scoping? There's no production military bolt action ever made thats more accurate than the k31 without a scope. Add a scope and you get............ ??
Click to expand...

Some people from one of those funny little northern european countries might disagree.;)

A k-31 for a rifle to scope is a no-brainer. You end up with a better made rifle and potentially more accurate rifle for 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of a remchesterrugersavage. :D
 
Try your Enfield out first

I have one with a sewer pipe bore that doesn't shoot well, the other is very accurate. I'm planning on getting the first one rebarreled and then scoping the most accurate of the two.
 
One of my K31s is set up with a new Weaver K6 and a St. Marie clamp on mount. No D&T, bolt alteration and it's a very workable combination. I reload for it so it's inexpensive to feed. Years ago I had too many Mausers that had too much invested in them. No more........Essex
 
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