Military and police shotguns

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by crestoncowboy, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. ozarkhillbilly

    ozarkhillbilly Member

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    I have yet to see a worn out pump shotgun. I have seen rusted shotguns, shotguns beat to hell with abuse, but never a worn out one. Not saying they do not exist but they are rare.
     
  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    A number of years ago, a local high volume dealer got in an assortment of frazzled looking but functional police pump guns of all brands. In addition to the usual 870s, there were some S&W 3000s which one gunzine writer considered an advance over the Remington.
    The Model 12s with 20" full choke barrels sold FAST, the cylinders lingered a while.
     
  3. Drail

    Drail Member

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    I had a S&W 916 back in the '70s. Total trainwreck of a shotgun. You were lucky to find parts for one when it was still in production.
     
  4. dak0ta

    dak0ta Member

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    Any word on the Benelli Nova/Supernova guns in LEO or Military use since they were released in 1999?
     
  5. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    Plenty of LE agencies and departments require officers, deputies, and agents to provide their own individual long guns. There may well be particular weapons specified, by policy. While attending the Houston PD academy, in Texas, in 1983-1984, I bought an S&W 3000, a Howa-made pump gun very much similar to the Remington 870, but with the “anti-jam” feature that Remington did not yet have. The other authorized shotguns, that I can remember, were the Remington 870, the Winchester Defender, and, if the Benelli M1 Super 90 was not already authorized, it was by the early Nineties, because I remember attending a two-gun tactical training class with an older version of the SIG P220, which I used from early 1991 to early 1993, and my Benelli M1 Super 90. I eventually sold the Benelli, mostly because the stock, and my face and shoulder, did not get along well, with each other.

    I added a Remington 870 Wingmaster, with the metal factory folding stock, in the early Nineties, when I was still using the Benelli. I added a Remington 870 Marine Magnum, and, eventually, an 870P Police Magnum, some time around 2002 or 2003. All were used for street patrol duty, with Houston PD. The only one of these that I still have is the 870P.

    Houston PD gradually eliminated several shotguns from the list of approved weapons, until the only authorized shotguns were the Remington 870, and the Benelli M1 Super 90, and M2. In 2016, I returned to using a Benelli, after buying an M2. My aging pumping arm meant that I was better-served by an autoloader, by then, and by that time the Comfort-Tech stock was available.
     
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  6. Double_J

    Double_J Member

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    The local pd back home used a mix of Remington 870s, Winchesters, and Mossberg 500s. To carry and use one you had to qualify, and that required 50 or so full power shells in a demanding course of fire. Nowadays the AR-15 has replaced most of the shotguns. Some guys carry both in the trunk, and those guys are the ones you don't want mad at you.
     
  7. MAKster

    MAKster Member

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    LAPD used the Ithaca Model 37 from the 1940s until the 1990s.
     
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  8. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    "Also what was the difference in the 67 and 77 Stevens." If memory serves me the Model 77 was a take down version of the Model 67. After 30 years of smithing in shotgun country there are several pump guns I have no respect for. Like always some will question my list of rejects and talk about the one they have has run good for them for years. I accept that and will still issue my opinion based on the many pump shoguns I have worked on, rejects which include - Win 1200 and 1300 , all models of the Nobel , S&W 916 , Stevens 67 and 77 , Win 1897 (their day as a good shotgun ended with the Model 12) . At 4:00 am I may be missing some but for now that will do. Someone mentioned a few designed by John Browning. The Models 520/620 were also designed by Browning.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
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  9. dak0ta

    dak0ta Member

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  10. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    Those and the the 140/1400 are by far my most worked on shotguns. Ive said it before.....when you can buy ejectors in 3 packs there is a serious problem.
     
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  11. Roknstevo

    Roknstevo Member

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    Also, at close quarters....even if you miss, it’ll blow out their eardrums. They’ll dance around holding their dead ears.
     
  12. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Under 15 meters a standard riot gun is a one shot fight ender — if you do your part. Better yet my own experience was that folks who were armed wouldn’t dare reach for a weapon if you had them properly covered with a thumper.
    In police work you’re doing your best when you can take down an armed offender- without firing a single shot (and yes, a short barreled shotgun is just plain intimidating without even discharging it...). In 22 years on the street, making many, many felony arrests I only fired one shot - then spent six months in and out of court over it...
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
  13. Gladius

    Gladius Member

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    Remington 870 was (probably still is) the predominate police shotgun in my neck of the woods, though one of the agencies I worked for briefly (early 90's) used the Smith & Wesson 3000 (which they eventually replaced with the 870). As an aside, my dad, who was a deputy sheriff from the late 50's to the late 70's, carried a privately-purchased 12-gauge double barrel (which I still have).
     
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  14. hdbiker

    hdbiker Member

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    As kid in high school, my little town ( under 3000 pop.) had a hardware store that got the bid to replace the prison guard towers shot guns, and ended up taking in the old ones in trade about 6 if I remember right, Winchester 97's. I remember looking them over, they showed handling wear but actions were all tight. With only a part time job ( after school & Saturdays) , taking home 16.50 a week I just coulden't afford one at 100.00 apace. I'm still sad about that. hdbiker
     
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  15. Boattale

    Boattale Member

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    I was a Company Armorer with D 1/9 USMC in 1972. There was not even one shotgun in my armory then.
     
  16. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    Can't answer your question but a beautiful 12 gauge pump with a stainless steel receiver came into y LGS and was put up on the rack for around $200. I went back a fews days later with the intention of buying it, and YES - it was GONE! I was told that it was a riot gun. I trust my LGS dealer and have no reason to doubt him - otherwise I am pretty ignorant about shotguns..
     
  17. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

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    Mossberg, Remington, and Winchester made bright plated shotguns with short barrels, usually using a name like Remington's "Magnum Marine".

    For a short time Winchester made an actual stainless steel pump gun using the Model 1200 and 1300 guns.
    Strangely, Winchester said the stainless barrels rusted inside but the nickel plated barrels didn't rust as fast so they discontinued the stainless models.

    If you saw a "stainless" shotgun for $200 it was probably either a used gun or one that had a plated finish. I don't know of any company offering an actual stainless steel pump gun today.
     
  18. T.R.

    T.R. Member

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    During Operation Fiery Vigil in the Philippines, I was issued an older Ithaca 37 with short barrel. Looters were coming into our airbase and supposedly, this shotgun would keep me safe. But I doubt that any of the bandits had firearms. Eventually the mission was scrapped and we abandoned the airbase.
     
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  19. mac66

    mac66 Member

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    Through the 70s's into the mid 80's our agency issued Hi-Standard. they were the basic pump guns with short (4 round?) mag tubes. We did have a couple of the bullpup Model 10s in the armory but I don't think I saw anyone use them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  20. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    I have a few high standard and ive seen the articles and the pictures of the bullpup. Never seen or even heard of one around here though. Around here you find more of the sears/ Higgins high standard than the actual high standard badged ones. I suppose Sears maybe never sold the bullpup model
     
  21. mac66

    mac66 Member

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    The bullpup was a semi auto 4 shot. I took our dept one out a few times to play with but it always seemed to jam so never carried it on patrol. I think our department switched to Mossbergs sometime in the late 80's. I was off the road by then and don't remember.
     
  22. Akula69
    • Contributing Member

    Akula69 Contributing Member

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    When I became the armorer for our agency about 10 years ago walking into the armory was a shock. They had retained weapons from 25-30 years before and never got rid of any...just bought replacements. I had (approx) 10-15 24" barrel Bernoulli's, probably about 20 24" Remington 870's and a mix of other stuff. I took all of it up to Nucor steel (MS) an watched them all smelted into a pot of molten steel (as a governmental agency we could not surplus them).
    The agency was a 'carry agency' so I provided all the weapons platforms for the officers (Shotty, Patrol rifle, pistol, non lethal). Over the next 8 years I convinced the Chief to allow gradual replacement....so we ended up with all Remington 870's with the 13" barrel. Kicked like a mule but got the work done!
     
  23. Llew Taranau

    Llew Taranau Member

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    So where ARE all the 870s now? Sold one to a friend, he passed away of cancer, it went to his wife. I had no idea the market would dry up.
     
  24. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Go to Gunbroker and enter "Wingmaster 12" for a dozen older 870's... A fair number are in standard riot configuration (bead sight, four round tube, 18 -20" barrel, 2 3/4" chamber... - my favorite close quarters shotgun... Surprising to me that they're not at the exaggerated price levels of most firearms on the market today...
     
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  25. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    My department issues Remington 870P and you can perverted purchase a 870P as well. The police shotgun has definitely lost popularity to the AR in recent years. Iraq ave Afghanistan probably played a big role in that. In seeing a lot of the younger officers, who for the most part aren't combat vets, are more likely to qualify on the shotgun vs the guys who came in during the heyday of GWOT.

    In the Army we had the regular ole Mossberg 500.
     
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