mini-14s - better now ?

[bender]

I was at my favorite gunshop yesterday, talking to the owner about getting an "ar-15" style of rifle. asked him about bushmasters and RRAs. He liked bushies alright, but said he wouldn't get an RRA. Didn't go into why with him.

He had a couple of mini-14s in the store, one used to be his personal rifle, and the other one was the "all weather" synthetic stock ranch rifle. I liked both of them. On his former personal mini-14, he had put one of those folding stocks, and a diff handguard-with scope mounts/rails on it.

I asked about some people not liking mini-14s, and he said that the mini-14s are better than they used to be...

I had stopped in the shop right before closing, so didn't talk much, but while I was there, he just about talked me out of getting an ar-15 style rifle, and getting a mini-14 instead... and then "tricking it out" if I wanted. He said it would be cheaper.

any comments?

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Respectfully Disagreeing....

I disagree with the owner about RRA. My two are tight, accurate and have NEVER malfunctioned despite some pretty horrible feed and tough conditions.

My experience with Mini-14s is rather dismal. I have sold the two I owned. Some other folks' mileage may have varied...one man's experience does not make a blanket condemnation credible.

Plain Old Bill

 

[TexasRifleman]

I also disagree about the RRA. I have 2 of them, both have been 100% reliable. One with 2 stage trigger, one without.


I also have a Mini 14. It's been 100% reliable as well. It's approaching 25 years old and it's been used and abused to where it's barely recognizable.

"Tricking out" a Mini 14 vs an AR doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint. All the crazy tacticool stuff costs more for a Mini from what I've seen and you have a lot less to choose from.

The beauty of the Mini is it's ruggedness and simplicity.

As for the question of whether Mini-14s are "better now" I have to ask, better than what?

 

[bender]

What's with the comment "they're better than they used to be..."? What changes have been made over the years?

I bought a mini-14 ranch rifle back in the late-80s for $200, as well as several other guns. Unfortunately, I overspent and got in a bind with bills...

So I sold a couple guns, including the mini-14, and before I ever even shot it...

 

[oh blanky]

compare the price of an AR and 20 Mags from C industries and a mini with 20 good mags and it's a wash I reckon.

 

[bender]

maybe I'll also look at the kel-tec su-16C. I have read thru the mini-14 vs su-16 thread here on THR. I never even heard of the su-16 until I read that thread...

googled a bit on the su-16, and it looks like an OK way to go. I like how the stock holds two 20-round mags for storage. also like the fact that it accepts standard ar-15 style mags. the ruger takes proprietary mags (I'm assuming).

 

[benEzra]

I had stopped in the shop right before closing, so didn't talk much, but while I was there, he just about talked me out of getting an ar-15 style rifle, and getting a mini-14 instead... and then "tricking it out" if I wanted. He said it would be cheaper.

As a mini-14 owner, I strongly disagree. Avoid the mini and get an AR, unless you specifically want a rifle with a straight wooden stock and conventional-looking scope mounts that is capable of only so-so accuracy out of the box.

I am currently trying to sell my mini-14 (188-series Ranch Rifle) in order to buy a RRA mid-length flattop AR. If I added up what I've spent on the mini, the folding stock, and the pricey magazines, I could have bought the AR to start with.

The best 100-yard group I've ever shot with my mini is 5.5". One of the redesigned mini's might do a bit better, but an RRA AR is guaranteed to shoot 1 MOA with match ammunition.

The AR is more accurate, equally reliable, takes common magazines, and is MUCH easier to accessorize. Mini's don't take common magazines, and they don't have MIL-STD-1913 rails to put stuff on (you can't add a widebody red dot or a collimator sight to a mini without spending big bucks for an aftermarket rail, and try to find an inexpensive flashlight mount for one).

I like my mini, but I eventually became deeply frustrated with the poor accuracy and the difficulty in adding nontraditional optics.

 

[bender]

ok, benEzra has talked me out of considering a mini-14....

will visit the monthly gun shows for a few months to see what RRAs and bushmasters are discounted to...

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Well, I haven't looked at real prices on the Mini-14 lately; but at Ruger's suggested retail price, you sure don't get much rifle for the money. It is nearly in the AR15 price range.

I think the real problem for Ruger is that the Keltec and Saiga offerings are beating it in the "cheap self-loading .223" category and it cannot compete with the AR15, AR180, etc. in the "high-end self-loading .223" category.

 

[armoredman]

I like the KelTec SU16, the only .223 I would consider, for the cartridge and the compact storage. I have heard decent reviews, what very few there are.

 

[Trebor]

Ruger recently redesigned the Mini slightly and retooled the production line. The changes were made partially because the manufacturing equipment was aging and partially to address the compliant that the Mini is inherently inaccurate. I don't know how succesful the redesign is as I have very little experience with the Mini 14, old or new. That's the story though.

 

[bender]

Well, I haven't looked at real prices on the Mini-14 lately; but at Ruger's suggested retail price, you sure don't get much rifle for the money. It is nearly in the AR15 price range.

yeah, I know. I think the retail is something like $800. The "real" price I could get one (cheapest I've found in town) is more like $649.

edit: sorry, i just noticed an "older" mini-14 thread that's here. everyone's probably tired of mini-14 threads...

 

[ChestyP]

If I was trying to sell my old Mini, I'd tell you "they're better now," too. Ask him why he's selling his?

As far as I can see with a physical examination, the "new" Minis have some changes to the sights and receiver area that appear to be cosmetic only. Iin my experience the accuracy problem is largely due to the Mini's gas system. That big old gas block hanging on the middle of the fairly light barrel just vibrates the wrong way, if you will.

If you're looking for a "social" carbine effective out to a couple hundred yards, the Mini is a fine rifle. Beyond 200 yards, or for any serious target shooting, the AR platform is the winner.

 

[browningguy]

And "I" don't think it would be cheaper to trick out a mini 14 over an AR. You can get a stock RRA with bolt carrier group for around $500, then $225 for a DPMS or similar built lower, and go shoot 1" groups with decent ammo. To get a Mini 14 any where near that, if it's even possible, would cost much more.

 

[railroader]

Keltec su16ca on sale. http://ddsranch.com/store/product_i...d=562&osCsid=33b7a239552fc0a786f70dee1db30cf9

Mark

 

[Blackfork]

Zero Mini 14s, all AR.

I have never seen a Mini-14 in competiton at an NRA match either in across the course or at a reduced match. They are about as competitive, due to their lousy accuracy, as a 10/22 would be in a smallbore competiton.

Every once in a while I see a shooter with a Mini 14 with a stock, barrel weight, et, et, who has spent a fortune trying to get his 14 to shoot as good as a stock AR.

It's a cute rifle but Law Enforcement grade only. Get the Rock River with a floated barrel and two stage trigger and you can shoot to 600 yards...accurately.

 

[Roadkill]

I've had a Mini 14 for years. Has never caused me a problem. I swear I'm going to shoot it one day.

rk

 

[bender]

ok, you guys are all really up on RRA, so I'll be sure to check them out at the monthly gun shows... Wonder how much a $1000 RRA goes for at shows?

Get the Rock River with a floated barrel and two stage trigger and you can shoot to 600 yards...accurately.

I've never shot at over 100 yards, so if I hit anything at 200 yds I'd be happy.

I've shot all my milsurps at 100 yds (garand, carbine, sks, etc). Still have a 1903 springfield and a mosin that I have never shot yet.

 

[AJ Dual]

I had a Mini-14 "way back" from '94-'96.

At the time, when AR's, even post-ban, were through the roof due to the AWB scare, at under $500, the mini made some economic sense to fill the SHTF/plinker role.

Not any more.

Now with the AWB sunset, it's the wrong rifle at the wrong price with the wrong barrel/gas assy, at the wrong time.

The only people I can envision buying the Mini-14 now are those in California with few other choices, those who don't know any better (or watched the A-Team too much…) or people with the "need" for a 3-4 MOA mid-caliber semi-auto with "PC" wood furniture.

The only circumstance I could see buying a Mini-14 right now would be if I came across a widow liquidating her husbands gun collection and had a "GB" model with original factory folder, and was selling it off for only a few hundred bucks, and there wasn't something else in the collection I wanted more.

Ruger could make moves and capture some truly significant market share with the Mini-14, but to do so, it's so many "ifs", it'll obviously never happen. If anything, they seem to be embarrassed by the Mini-14, I never see the thing advertised anywhere, other than in their catalog, and perhaps in a magazine one page line up with their bolt action products listed much more promienently.

If Ruger could somehow figure out the gas block/barrel-accuracy/heat problem, decided the business was more important than the "wishes" of Bill Ruger's corpse, and started selling factory 20 round mags, GB models, and factory folders again, and they managed to price the highest model no higher than the mid-to-low basic AR market, they might really get somewhere.

Especially if they aggressively marketed it as the "poor man's M1A", which is what the Mini-14 and the aborted .308 "XGI" project was supposed to be in the first place.

Another idea would be to re-work the Mini-14 action into a .223 "mini-Garand" model, they might sell a few of those too, it would be reminiscent of like how Ruger kicked off the Single Action revival with the little .22LR Bearcat in the 1950's and cashed in on the newfound TV Western fever.

And pigs might fly.

I guess Ruger sells enough to people as "ranch rifles", and not-so-poor man's SHTF guns who can't swing an AR for whatever reason, all the while Ruger keeps pretending they don't/won't sell anything "militaristic"...

 

[LeonCarr]

The solution to the Mini-14 accuracy problem is simple. Take the handguard/handguards off of a Mini-14 and an AR. Under the Mini-14 handguard you will find a skinny almost pencil thin barrel that is very prone to warpage and heat distortion, which is why most Mini-14s, in my experience, will shoot the first two shots from a three shot group close together, and then the third shot will be off in left field. Under the handguards of the AR you will see a barrel right around an inch in diameter. Heavier barrel, less heat distortion, better and more consistent accuracy. All Ruger has to do is put a heavier barrel on the Mini-14. Most of the companies doing accuracy work on Mini-14s include installation of a heavier barrel to solve the accuracy problem.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[TexasRifleman]

The solution to the Mini-14 accuracy problem is simple.

I respectfully disagree.

One of my ARs has a MUCH thinner pencil barrel than my Mini and it's MUCH MUCH more accurate.

Barrel thickness alone can't account for it.

 

[Dravur]

Is the Ruger Mini 14 better than....

a ham sandwich? Maybe. Is it better than a rubber band gatling gun? doubtful... Is it better than a RRA AR? not even close. I have built many guns on the RRA lower and have found them to be just fine for a good AR build. I have used RRA uppers as well and found them accurate and well built.

But if it came down to owning either a Ruger mini 14 or the ham sandwich, there would be some long hard thinking.

 

[mustanger98]

Yet another "let's bash Mini-14's" thread. I've always liked mine... very well.

As for the changes, while I like the shotgun style buttplate on the newer ones, I don't like the sights. I like the old sights much better. I just wish the rear sight was adjustable without an extra tool as it is... more like a Garand or M-14 with the windage and elevation knobs.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if it had a heavier barrel... and maybe a fluted stairstepped profile... but for what I do with a rifle, it does fine. I do plan to get a trigger job on mine. If I can find a flash hider with the proper height of front sight, I'll be adding that as I understand a flash hider will change the harmonics. Other than that, I'm fine with it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Can't say why the guy didn't like RRA's. They are excellent guns and would be my second choice for an AR. I personally favor Armalite, as I think the metalwork/fit & finish are superior to RRA, DPMS, Eagle and Olyarms. Bushmaster has not impressed me as of late, and Colt always have been and always will be over-priced. I cannot yet comment on the S&W M&P15.

As for the Mini-14, so long as you can accept that accuracy will likely be in the 2-3 MOA range, they are excellent firearms. A mini was my first centerfire auto and will always be with me. For some unknown reason, certain folks like to bash mini's. All to often, we find that they belong to the "SKS is the greatest thing since sliced bread" or the "AK is the ONLY rifle" crowds.

I'll try not go on an SKS bashing spree, but the quality, metallurgy and fit & finish of the Mini are far superior to any SKS I've encountered (of which there have been literally hundreds, Yugo, Chinese and Russian made). Additionally, I've fired many, many SKS's. They all exhibited accuracy equal to the mini at best, usually worse. Reliability was poor with hi capacity mags, excepting the "M" type SKS. The 59/66's that are currently all the rage are heavy and cumbersome with very poor metalwork. There is a reason they are only $120, and there is a reason that with all the rifles I own, I have opted to not have a Yugo SKS in the collection; In a year, I drop enough cash for over a dozen SKS's on ammo alone, so lack funds is not the reason. The Chinese SKS's are better, but cost 2-3x as much. The Russian-made examples are by far the best, but at $500 it is hard to justify. Where it not for the dirt-cheap Yugo's, I doubt we would see near as many SKS's around. Most folks will opt for a better unit when the price creeps up in the $300-$500 range.

Comparing the mini to the AK leaves us with only one deciding factor in most cases, and that is style. Both are robust, reliable and have similar accuracy as stock units, and both are available in either 5.56mm or 7.62mm. The fit/finish of the mini is better than run of the mill AK's, an attribute that is not worth the extra $200 or so to some.

Mini's can be accuraized, but when one considers the cost of the rifle and then the cost of the custom work, it is more economical to simply buy an AR.

The bottom line is that if you use the mini for it's intended purpose and don't expect it to be something it is not, you will love it.

 

[AZ Jeff]

As for the Mini-14, so long as you can accept that accuracy will likely be in the 2-3 MOA range, they are excellent firearms.

............I'll try not go on an SKS bashing spree, but the quality, metallurgy and fit & finish of the Mini are far superior to any SKS I've encountered (of which there have been literally hundreds, Yugo, Chinese and Russian made). Additionally, I've fired many, many SKS's. They all exhibited accuracy equal to the mini at best, usually worse.

..........Comparing the mini to the AK leaves us with only one deciding factor in most cases, and that is style. Both are robust, reliable and have similar accuracy as stock units, and both are available in either 5.56mm or 7.62mm. The fit/finish of the mini is better than run of the mill AK's, an attribute that is not worth the extra $200 or so to some.

Mini's can be accuraized, but when one considers the cost of the rifle and then the cost of the custom work, it is more economical to simply buy an AR.

The bottom line is that if you use the mini for it's intended purpose and don't expect it to be something it is not, you will love it

Congratulations to "MachIVshooter" on the most honest assessment I have ever seen of the Mini-14, and how it stacks up to it's primary competitors.