Mini draco!

[Darrellb1973]

It is what it is...and I dont expect anything more....it is not a long range rifle it is a pistol. If i need to shoot something at 200 yards I will pull out one of my many rifles. Close combat outdoors I see this gun as viable. I point, shoot and it dies....very simple no matter how many numbers you look at. SBR seriously why not??? people have been adding stocks to modern type pistols since the mid to late 1800's main reasons are because it cuts down on recoil and adds accuracy. Like I said it is what it is.... a really cool pistol.

 

[PTK]

As I posted previously, the 11.5" barrel produces velocities within about 2% of the 16.3" (full size) barrel. Add a stock, upgrade the sights, and it will quite easily do anything a full length AK can.

By BATFE definition and the 1934NFA/1968GCA, yes, it's a pistol because it's never had a stock. However, it's firing a medium-power rifle cartridge, is based on a rifle, and has sight notches made for holding it at a closer distance (rifle) than in both hands further away as a pistol. Rather than being a pistol with a stock added such as the c/96, it's a rifle missing the stock - but the $200 tax stamp fixes all that. Can't wait for mine to get back, should be less than three months more, now.

 

[Birdmang]

I just like it because I have a bunch of 7.62x39 and was sick of shooting it from my sks!

I also think it looks cool and like that I don't have to worry about 922r.

What awesome looking muzzle devices are out there to thread on this?!

 

[PTK]

The muzzle nut has been spot-welded on. You'll need to cut through the weld carefully, take the nut off, most likely dress the threads, file the lug/sightbase where the weld was, blue it, and then you can put a flash hider or similar.

Mine is just wearing an ordinary 14x1LH AK slant brake. Works like a charm, and since I took my time cutting the weld and whatnot, you can't even tell there was anything welded there before.

One more thing to note, when I got my Draco, the wood was completely bare. It was installed, oversized, and had no finish at all! I ended up putting some US Military M1 Garand stock rub on there, it very slightly darkened the birch and waterproofed it. Couldn't ask for more.

 

[xr1200]

Most of these ak pistols are completely useless, except as I way of wasting a lot of ammo at the range. They can not be shot accurately with either a one hand or 2 hand hold due to their forward heavy balance and their short sight radius, weight is also a problem.

These ak pistols are really SBR with no butt stock and you really need the but stock to shoot this style of gun accurately.

The only short barreled assault style pistols that are of any use is are the short barrelled ar15 with the short buffer tube expending out back , that some ppl use as a butt stock.

For me I have no use for these short barrelled ak or ar15 pistols and you rather use a standard glock or browning hi power for a side arm.

To sum it up these ak pistols are simple waco range guns for the young shooters that don't know any better.

 

[PTK]

Most of these ak pistols are completely useless, except as I way of wasting a lot of ammo at the range. They can not be shot accurately with either a one hand or 2 hand hold due to their forward heavy balance and their short sight radius, weight is also a problem.

These ak pistols are really SBR with no butt stock and you really need the but stock to shoot this style of gun accurately.

The only short barreled assault style pistols that are of any use is are the short barrelled ar15 with the short buffer tube expending out back , that some ppl use as a butt stock.

For me I have no use for these short barrelled ak or ar15 pistols and you rather use a standard glock or browning hi power for a side arm.

To sum it up these ak pistols are simple waco range guns for the young shooters that don't know any better.

Riiiiight.

So, the fact that with my full-sized Draco, without a stock, I'm able to hit the 12" steel gong at 200 yards as many times as you'd like with surplus ammo counts for nothing? It's still "useless" and a "waco range gun"? Right.

 

[xr1200]

Lets see proof of your claims of being able to hit a steel gong off hand at 200 yrds. with your draco pistol. Make us you tube video.

 

[Girodin]

My full-size Draco (11.5" barrel) gets around 2300FPS with 123gr ammo, which is within 50FPS of a full length barrel.

That is higher than the figures that I typically see posted for the regular draco. Of course a number of factors can affect the velocity being recorded. I write this to suggest that unless you are testing the same loads, over, the same chronograph, under the same or at least substantially similar conditions then it might be problematic drawing to broad of conclusions from comparisons.

I generally have seen over my chrono and online reports of the Draco getting closer to 2000-2100 FPS. Those figures compared to the 1950 FPS figure you suggest (I've seen 2000 reported from a 7.5" barrel before too).

I'd like to see some more comparable reports.

 

[Sam1911]

Lets see proof of your claims of being able to hit a steel gong off hand at 200 yrds. with your draco pistol. Make us you tube video.

And if he does, will you recant your statements and declare a Draco pistol to be a useful and potentially practical thing?

If you can hit a gong at 200 yds with a standard handgun (no small feat), then you can probably do it with a Draco -- and I'm betting PTK is probably not fronting a feat he can't pull off.

So, is hitting a gong at 200 yards your standard for "useful?" Will him accomplishing this change anything about your opinion? Should it? Is sniping targets at 200 yds what these guns are "for?"

Just curious what your reasoning is.

 

[xr1200]

No I wouldn't .

If you think its a practicle pistol, and has any usefull purpose besides spraying a lot of lead at the range, lets hear them.

Also hitting a 12" steel gong off hand even with an AK47 rifle would be a great shot for the average marksman.

I'm sure it could be done with a draco pistol from a bench rest at 200 yrds, but off hand it would probably take 50 shots to do it once.

Taking into account the sight picture with the crude open sights and hold over required.

 

[Girodin]

If you think its a practicle pistol, and has any usefull purpose besides spraying a lot of lead at the range, lets hear them.

I think it is a very practical base for making an SBR. That would be within your universe of "any useful purpose". That is its raison d'etre as far as I'm concerned.

 

[xr1200]

The sbr's are a waste of money unless they were full auto, which they aren't.

I'll stick with a legal 16 inch barrel ar15 or ak47 carbine, doesn't make sense to turn a regular legal pistol , to an SBR just to put a stock on it.

 

[Sam1911]

No I wouldn't .

So you asked for proof of something but that proof won't change anything? Guess he shouldn't bother then.

If you think its a practicle pistol, and has any usefull purpose besides spraying a lot of lead at the range, lets hear them.

Personally? No, I don't have much of a reason for them beyond a very nice starting point for an high-quality SBR, which I do think is a very practical item.

Also hitting a 12" steel gong off hand even with an AK47 rifle would be a great shot for the average marksman.

Really? I've done it with a '74 on the first try. From the support-side shoulder. Guess I'm better that I thought! I'll agree that it's challenging with a stockless pistol, but if PTK says he can do it, I'm really not going to doubt him.

But so what if he can, or if he can't? You said it doesn't change your mind at all even though you demanded to see it done.

I'm sure it could be done with a draco pistol from a bench rest at 200 yrds, but off hand it would probably take 50 shots to do it once.

There was a video posted here last week of a guy plinking a 200 yd. gong with a .22 automatic, offhand and hitting every shot. Can't imagine it's any harder with a flatter-shooting weapon. It will take practice, and some experimentation to figure out how to do it on demand, but I don't think it would be a lucky random shot sort of thing, either.

Taking into account the sight picture with the crude open sights and hold over required.

It's only 200 yds. What hold-over? The bullet's going 2,000 fps. more or less. Total drop's not going to be much more than a foot so the sight adjustments can accommodate that.

 

[Girodin]

It's only 200 yds. What hold-over? The bullet's going 2,000 fps. more or less. Total drop's not going to be much more than a foot so the sight adjustments can accommodate that.

Its going to drop about 8".

 

[Girodin]

The sbr's are a waste of money unless they were full auto, which they aren't.

Do you care to support that conclusion with an argument. With an 11" barreled gun you lose at best 150 FPS. The x39 round does well from a short barrel. A shorter gun is not only shorter with the accompaning advantages but it also is lighter, and makes a better base for a suppressor. The only real disadvantage is that it has a shorter sight radius. Not a huge issue inside 200 where the round is at its best and a non issue if you run an aimpoint like I prefer.

As to a waste of money, one can SBR a draco for the same money or less than a comparable 16" barreled gun and have the accompanying advantages of an SBR.

Also hitting a 12" steel gong off hand even with an AK47 rifle would be a great shot for the average marksman.

There goes you're credibility. You don't shoot much do you. A 12" gong at 200 yards is very doable for an average shooter with a rifle.

While a pistol AK will be hard to use fast , I have no doubt someone could hit a gong at 200 with one. That's really not that tall of a claim.

 

[bkjeffrey]

I cant get any handguards for it

Sure you can......

 

[Darrellb1973]

Where did you get the handguards at bkjeffery? looking good.

 

[xr1200]

For purely defense purposes, outside of someone walking into a room and spraying a lot of bullets all over the walls and hoping to hit someone , these guns are useless. As in an old Miami Vice episode.

If you tried to use this draco pistol for any type common rifle defense drill you would find you that at anywhere from 25 yrds. to a 100 yrds you wouldn't even hit most of your targets fast enough and if you had someone returning fire with a rifle you would probably be dead before you engaged your first or second target.

So use some common sense you really think anyone in their right mind would choose a draco pistol for either urban or outdoor combat over a 16" barrel M4 or Ak47 rifle.

As for hitting a 12" gong at 200 yrds. with open sights off hand it is a very hard shot with even open sights on a target rifle, let alone an ak47.

Try hitting a standing wood chuck off hand at a 100 yrds. with open sights, now picture this at 200 yrds. with open sights. This is why you use a scope for anything over 50 yrds. Sure you can make decent shots on paper targets at 200-600 yrds, but this is done from either a rest or prone at giant bulls eye target from anywhere from a 12" black to 48" black circle to allow a point of aim and sight reference.

 

[bkjeffrey]

Uhhhh......I can hit any man sized target with mine, easily up to 150 yards....I can hit the old washing machine at 200 yards if I actually TRY to aim at the dern thing. Id say with a butt-stock this would be a formidable little carbine with good enough accuracy. And as far as reliability, over 2K rounds without a single mishap. Better than any AR I own.

Check out the Diablo by PWS. 7" barrel in 7.62x39 SBR with great reviews.

 

[xr1200]

Washing machines and paper targets, don't move, take cover or return fire, and were talking pistol configuration not SBR configuration.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

This is why you use a scope for anything over 50 yrds

Never heard that one before. Interesting.

 

[Girodin]

So did you abandon your SBR contention (that it is a waste of money) or were you going to support that. This forum doesn't get get a lot of trolling, but I'm starting to think that may be what you are up to.

 

[Beaux Nehr]

My face when I read all of xr1200's replies in this thread:

Ohhh lawd, so funny.

I wonder how He'd feel if we posted some videos of Hickok 45 goofing around with pistols at long range.

 

[Birdmang]

xr1200:

Please don't come into my thread spouting crap about a gun you don't like and claim to be impractical.

If you don't like Dracos or mini dracos, then just don't buy one.

Thanks.

 

[macadore]

If you think its a practicle pistol, and has any usefull purpose besides spraying a lot of lead at the range, lets hear them.

Most handgun fights take place at less than 10 feet. Most people can point shoot at that range and hit a human. With an upper hand guard, you can put wrap your thumb around the barrel and keep the muzzle climb down. I can't imagine any handgun more formidable at that range other than the full size Draco.