Minimal Gun / Practice

[skt239]

Today there are more tiny handguns on the market and in the pockets of CCW holders than ever. While the new crop of micros are a dream to carry for many people they are tough to practice with at the range.

Many people seem to subscribe to the "carry a lot shoot a little" philosophy, figuring once a level of proficiency and familiarity is achieved, it can be maintained with minimal practice. Others never become proficient and are content with familiarity and the reliability of the firearm. While others shoot their small carry guns more than anything else.

So, my question is, what's the minimal amount of practice your comfortable with when it comes to a very small and challenging handgun? Do you take it out of its holster for a few rounds at the range or is it your part of your normal routine?

Thanks.

 

[TurtlePhish]

Not old enough to carry yet, but if I did, I'd shoot that thing every chance I got. No substitute for practice, and if you ever DO have to use it, you wanna be able to use it right.

 

[Jeff F]

I practice a few rounds with my carry piece from concealment every range visit. If I'm not hitting the targets as good as I think I should, I practice a bit more. I wont carry any gun I can't shoot proficiently.

 

[Certaindeaf]

After you shoot a million rounds of centerfire, you can probably coast a bit.

 

[JSpear]

I have three main carry guns, I practice with each at least a hundred rounds every range trip, I'm still kinda new to this so for me practice makes perfect. I feel I can never shot my carry guns enough.

 

[x_wrench]

i shoot the carry guns every trip out. which is at least once a week, weather permitting. not only does it keep me tuned up, but it ensures they stay clean as well. if you are lucky, you will discover the easy way about how dirty a carry gun can get. if not, you may find out to late.

 

[mgmorden]

The carry gun gets shot once or twice a year to verify that its working properly. I've never failed to be able to place all my rounds in a silhouette target at 7-10 yards.

I shoot enough of my other guns (8,000+ rounds per year) to remain generally proficient as a shooter. Realistically most defensive encounters occur at such short ranges that precision shooting isn't necessary. If you've got time to pull up, get a perfect sight picture, and shoot the guy's buttons of his shirt then you'll have some 'splaining to do to a judge.

 

[Deus Machina]

My 'holster gun' gets shot every range trip, at least 50 rounds. I'm not the best shot (I've usually shot my .22 enough to have my hand a little unsteady at that point) but 4" at 10 yards is good enough for right then.

The pocket gun usually gets taken out and fed twenty to fifty rounds. More if I don't feel like I'm hitting the target well enough.

I practice all these at ten yards. In the area I'm in, I'll be lucky if I'm outside of arm's reach if I ever have to use it.

 

[Lex Luthier]

The carries get enough rounds through them to ensure proficiency at 7-15 yards. This could be one mag or two. Once you know, you know. No need to waste ammo.

 

[Skribs]

Money is a big consideration for some people. Range trips are expensive. It's worth it, but not over things like bills.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

The pessimistic attitude of “Carry it a lot, shoot it a little” doesn’t inspire much confidence in either the gun or the shooter, does it?

Effective training is hard work. It’s not meant to be enjoyable. It’s meant to develop and maintain skills that need to be quickly employed at a moment’s notice to defend against a spontaneous deadly attack. It’s also meant to find problems with your techniques, equipment and method of carry so you can correct them to make you more efficient – and thus be more able to react and perform effectively, more quickly, on demand.

“Carry it a lot, shoot it a little” is negative defeatist resignation. It’s a quitter’s attitude. It’s an excuse to avoid the hard work (and hard decisions) required to train effectively.

Effective training can provide a much needed wake-up call:
If the gun is too painful or punishing to shoot – then get different ammo or get a different gun.
If you constantly have to readjust your grip after every shot – then get a different gun.
If you can’t acquire a firing grip, quickly draw your gun from your pocket with one hand (without bobbling), and get good hits right off the bat – then get a different gun or get a different method of carry.

Effective training inspires confidence in oneself, one’s equipment and one’s method of carry. When the scat hits the fan you’ll fall back on your training and experience. If you’ve subscribed to the “Carry it a lot, shoot it a little” mindset then you really haven’t prepared yourself to take on a violent attacker. You’re hoping you can perform on demand instead of knowing you can.

 

[skt239]

Shawn,

I agree you with you 100%

 

[Agsalaska]

Shawn I do agree with you, but that is idealistic. The reason most people, IMHO, believe in the 'carry a lot shoot a little' is time and money. Getting good takes time and the vast majority of gun owners dont have the desire or the time to do that. The other factor is money. Getting good costs a lot, and unless your Obama you understand todays economic climate. So a slogan like that makes some feel better.

 

[HoosierQ]

I liked the saying I heard here yesterday.

Shoot it a little, a lot. Meaning, get out there as often as possible and put a few mags worth through it. No need to put 1K per day down range. Said another way, frequency of practice is more important than a high round count. Obviously there is a minimum limit here.

 

[Godsgunman]

I think its all about shooting enough to be proficient with the weapon. If I had it my way I would shoot everyday, unfortunately that doesn't happen because of time and money. I can usually get out every other weekend or at very least once a month to practice. I know both my carry weapons very well. I know that my CZ 82 will shoot an inch low and left when the bullseye is covered. I also know my S&W 6904 shoots about 1 inch low at point of aim. For me its about knowing where that specific type of ammo you choose to carry is hitting everytime you take aim. That takes practice but the amount of that is different for every person to become proficient and knowledgable.

 

[gym]

You should shoot your carry regularlly, at leaast every few months at most. I try for once per month. Just to make sure nothing came apart or loosend up. It all depends on finances nowadays. Everyone is hurting somehow, so you try to do the best you can. But you should never carry a gun you havent tested after any work has been done or parts replaced, even a mag. It's too late when the shtf. Try for as much trigger time as you can afford.

 

[rstull85]

I try to shoot my carry gun whenever I go to the range. But like the other guys here I can't afford to go out and shoot very regularly. I would love to go to some of the advanced personal defense classes that the NRA offers and take some type of firearms retention/hand to hand combat training but I really just can't afford it.

 

[txgunsuscg]

I can only speak from my experience, and I can tell you that proficiency fades fast. I have been shooting probably 1k+ rounds through my duty pistol a month for the last two years. I was sent to several schools and wasn't on the gun for almost 3 months. It took me the better part of a range day and probably 500 rounds to get my groove back. I shoot a compact, so it's not near as challenging as the micro pistols abounding today. I agree with Shawn that it takes a great deal of practice to get good, and then a great deal of practice to keep good. The last mini gun I shot, I would not have been able to stand doing the amount of shooting I feel is necessary for proficiency with it. Just my $.02.

 

[gym]

I had a dear friend who also was a gun freak and a client for 20 years, he also owned several pharmacies a clothing factory and a gun store. He shot every day. He would stop in Roslyn and shoot at a private range in glen cove, every morning, 50 rounds out of a snub model 60. This was mid 70's till 90's. He also had 2 shootings that were good shoots one in his pharmacy business.

One detective I knew was a crack shot, my buddy Howie was in the Post a half dozen times for shootings back when TNT had one a night minimum. Working out of the 72, and 77 in Brooklyn. You old New yorkers may remember Howie De Stefano. We hung out a lot. One weird thing about Howie, He never carried off duty, and this was a bad ass. he would say ,you have yours right, I could never understand that. Howie should have retired by now, youngest to make 1st grade

I don't have the time or the want, and cash, to go more than once, maybe twice a month, it works for me, I still shoot well, not as well as I used to, but 45 years well.It may be a perishable skill, but as long as you go when you are able, you don't just forget how to shoot,as others would have you believe. I shoot to live not the other way around, been there when that's all I wanted to do on my off time, you get old things change. I will always love guns, but they are but a part of my life. If you have an extra hundred a week you can go 4 times a month, not for me any more, unless I got in the business. It's a car payment for gods sake.In this economy, 5 grand a year for shooting is just over the top.

 

[Ankeny]

“Carry it a lot, shoot it a little” is negative defeatist resignation

I disagree. After an hour or more of dry fire Monday-Friday, 3-4 live fire trips a week, and several matches a month with my competition guns, I figure shooting my carry gun until I am ankle deep in brass isn't a prerequisite to ongoing competency.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

The context of my earlier post applies to small guns that are challenging to shoot - which is what the OP referred to. "Carry it a lot, shoot it a little" is an adage that's frequently applied to these kinds of guns.

There's a fine line between carryability and shootability.

Dryfiring training isn't going to replace a stout recoil - one that is unpleasant or causes the gun to shift in the shooter's hand (requiring constant readjustment of the grip after each shot).

Dryfire training doesn't provide feedback on marksmanship skills when drawing from concealment and shooting a lightweight, narrow handgun with a 2" barrel. A gun or ammo choice that produces a punishing recoil is going to produce flinching during live fire.

Smaller guns are more challenging to shoot accurately. The challenge increases when somebody has a tiny Seecamp .380 or NAA Guardian .380; or has chosen a hot load as a defense cartridge (e.g., Buffalo Bore, CorBon, etc.).

Small .380's are usually blowback operated, which increases felt recoil. Add in a lightweight polymer frame, a narrow grip backstrap, and a short grip and the challenge increases. (Getting a good firing grip on these little guns and being able to quickly draw and fire can be quite a challenge - especially when carried in the pocket.) Throw in hot defense ammo and the challenge increases further.

"Carry it a lot, shoot it a little" is the advice/mindset applied to a gun that's unpleasant to shoot or is not designed sturdy enough to fire a steady diet of defense ammo.

 

[Ben86]

I make it a point to "qualify" once a month with my carry gun (Glock 19 at the moment) using a 50 round practice session that includes the most important skills in defensive shooting.

I also dry fire practice with it at least once a weak, sometimes more if I have the time.

If my carry gun was a tiny pocket gun I may shoot it even less because I wouldn't want to wear the little thing out. Lets face it, most tiny guns are not made for large round counts.

"Carry a lot and shoot a little" doesn't offend me as long as the person supplements their occasional shooting with frequent dry fire practice. To me dry fire practice is where I build the most skill (except obvious things like recoil control). Shooting is done more for a confirmation of skill.

 

[Ankeny]

Shawn:

I doubt we will ever be on the same page. I have owned and currently do own some handguns that are meant for deep concealment that are unpleasant and difficult to shoot. In the summer time I have been known to carry a pocket pistol a lot and shoot it very little. My decision to carry a gun that I don't intend to shoot a lot doesn't make me a negative, defeatist, quitter... On the contrary, I have enough skill, confidence, and experience with that gun to know I can deploy the pistol for it's intended purpose without shooting it on a square range until it rattles into oblivion.

 

[Kingcreek]

I don't think everybody needs intense training. I am fortunate enough to live in a rural paradise and I can shoot anytime I want at home. I'll run a mag or two after chores or when I'm out cutting wood, etc. a few rounds on a regular basis keeps me proficient. Last night after supper I plinked from the front porch. I carry regularly and practice drawing from concealment, shooting from different positions, etc. all of it informal. Over 40 years shooting experience, some of it serious competition, doesn't hurt either.
My primary carry is a kahr PM9 which I think qualifies as your micro/mini defense arm.

 

[gym]

I agree Ben, at this stage, most any gun I pick up, it's not going to change the way I shoot either. After so many years recoil is over rated in the 3 main calibers. It really isn't a concern, even in my 60's, although I go to the gym 5-6 days a week, and that helps keep your strength and agility up. I have had discussions with men on here who were having problems with arthritis in their hands, and it had really stopped their shooting.
A well structured 15 minute session with a few exercises can solve most of those problems. Don't forget you younger guys haven't yet experienced what age will do to your muscles and ligaments, let alone bones.
Some had to stop shooting, "which is sad when it's your favorite thing to do". Some can't shoot every week because of that alone. so I agree with more dry firing, at least your muscle memory is kept sharp.
If mu wife in her 60's can shoot my 45 in the black, after not shooting for several years, it's not impossible, although she has exellent eye hand coordination, but corpal tunnel in her thumb, so after two or three rounds it just hurts, She likes 45's but shoots the lcp now.Also video games, "she is a gamer and very good"