Minimalistic way to test ammo reliability in a new HD pistol

[RetiredUSNChief]

This is a can of worms.

Everybody has an opinion on how many rounds it takes to verify any given firearm is reliable.

The bottom line is you've gotta shoot your gun enough to convince YOU that it's going to cycle reliably when you need it to.

Seems to me you're trying to talk yourself out of having to do this, for some reason. Maybe it's budget, maybe it's a current lack of available and affordable self defense ammo, whatever.

Also, it's not just the first few and last few rounds in a magazine that matter. It's EVERY round that matters. Because the magazine isn't the only concern here. Reliability of feed and ejection also depends on the gun itself, even though magazines may contribute to a significant number of problems. It also depends on the ammunition...bullet design and pressures generated, to name a couple things. You also want to know whether your chosen SD ammo shoots consistently and accurately as well as cycles the action properly.

Buy a few boxes of your chosen SD ammo and shoot it, using ALL your magazines while doing so. Don't shortcut yourself on this.

 

[dekibg]

I'd be concerned that you had a FTEj in 100 rounds. Blazer brass is good and warm ammo and one of the brands I buy in bulk to shoot at matches. I can't recall the last time I've had and kind of failure with that ammo.

One failure in 100 does not a bad pistol make, but right now you don't know if it was a fluke or it's constantly going to have a 1% chance of a stoppage. And that's with FMJs, which any modern pistol should digest flawlessly. You're really in the dark when it comes to JHP reliability.

I'm also not sold on the utility of having speed holes in the slide on a pistol intended for defensive use. Call me old fashioned but I just see another way for garbage to get into the slide.

BSW

I agree that failure to eject FMJ round in the first hundred is concerning and I am not really happy about it.
Regarding frame “speed” holes, listen, we all sometimes buy things like guns and gun accessories based on their looks, not practicality. Same thing with this - I know it serves no actual purpose, but I like how it looks and this being a bedroom safe and range gun, I am not worried about dirt getting into the slide.
As for not buying additional hollow points to fully test reliability, I really don’t feel right now like blowing additional $100 thru the pipe . Some people may understand , some not.
Remember, before ammo craziness ( although good SD ammo was always very expensive), there were people that were proponents of “ always practice with what you carry” . I always wondered on what kind of revenue those people live. Back then I could definitely afford to burn couple hundred FMJ’s every month at range , but I never could, nor I will be to do that with hollow points - little bit off topic , I am sorry…
But I definitely appreciate everyone’s advice and opinion and I am thankful for it

 

[briansmithwins]

I agree that failure to eject FMJ round in the first hundred is concerning and I am not really happy about it.
Regarding frame “speed” holes, listen, we all sometimes buy things like guns and gun accessories based on their looks, not practicality. Same thing with this - I know it serves no actual purpose, but I like how it looks and this being a bedroom safe and range gun, I am not worried about dirt getting into the slide.
As for not buying additional hollow points to fully test reliability, I really don’t feel right now like blowing additional $100 thru the pipe . Some people may understand , some not.
Remember, before ammo craziness ( although good SD ammo was always very expensive), there were people that were proponents of “ always practice with what you carry” . I always wondered on what kind of revenue those people live. Back then I could definitely afford to burn couple hundred FMJ’s every month at range , but I never could, nor I will be to do that with hollow points - little bit off topic , I am sorry…
But I definitely appreciate everyone’s advice and opinion and I am thankful for it

Pick two or 3 types of JHPs that you think have reasonable performance*. Get some of each when you can find them on sale or share shipping cost with other items or a friend or two. Decide which you like best and then, the next time you find a good deal, get a bunch.

I do want the knowledge that my JHPs are going to work in my pistols. As mentioned, I just got a new pistol and took it out last week. It got 100 FMJs and a box go 50 from my current stash of JHPs**. Since there weren't any malfunctions I'm pretty confident that that pistol works.

The key is I'm always using the same JHPs and have been for years. I'd go insane and broke if I kept switching JHPs. As they say, "Ain't nobody got time (or money) for that!" But by having one kind of 9mmP JHP that I stocked up on I have hundreds of rounds thru my pistols over the years just by using my carry mags up every half year or so in my normal rotation.

I'm dreading running out of my current stash of .40 S&W JHPs as I'll need to cycle thru to a new variety. My current Federal load doesn't seem to be available anymore, or at least not in stock anywhere.

BSW

*Gel tests aren't the end all and be all for evaluating ammo performance. But gel is probably a best case test for JHPs, if a JHP doesn't expand in clothed gel it's real world performance is likely going to be worse. I also believe that 9mmP is underloaded by most ammo manufacturers so I tend to go for +P loads. I don't own any antiques in 9mmP and I'm not worried about excess wear.
**Federal 9BPLE 115gr +P+ that I scored on sale for about $0.34 each a few years ago. On my short list to replace them when I run out is the Federal 124gr +P HST, Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P, and the Remington 124gr +P Golden Saber.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

As for not buying additional hollow points to fully test reliability, I really don’t feel right now like blowing additional $100 thru the pipe . Some people may understand , some not.
Remember, before ammo craziness ( although good SD ammo was always very expensive), there were people that were proponents of “ always practice with what you carry” . I always wondered on what kind of revenue those people live. Back then I could definitely afford to burn couple hundred FMJ’s every month at range , but I never could, nor I will be to do that with hollow points - little bit off topic , I am sorry…
But I definitely appreciate everyone’s advice and opinion and I am thankful for it

You don't have to always practice with what you carry. You should practice enough to verify it's reliable and accurate, though.

If your carry ammo is the same mass and velocity as your target ammo, you are not likely to see any difference in terminal performance at the range.

I primarily shoot Winchester White Box on the range in 9mm 115 gr and .45 ACP 230 gr.

I carry Speer Gold Dot hollowpoints in the same bullet mass. I see no difference in point of impact on the range.

 

[Hangingrock]

I'm old as in past the mid point of my seventh decade. MCRD Parris Island 1964,1911A1 familiarization firing 1911A1 is where I started with center fire handguns. With that said I've witnessed the one constant in life change. An example would be the transition away from revolvers to the semiautomatic pistols now being the dominant weapon choice as an example law enforcement. Citizen concealed carry the semiautomatic pistol is most likely dominate weapon choice also. When I resided in PA, I was a member of three Sportsmen's Clubs. One could witness the transition their also.

I have carried magazines and practice magazines for my EDC which has proved to be a practical expedient. Others may see it differently. Thats my story!

 

[jmorris]

I wouldn’t take a load to a match that I had only fired a few of and the cost of a choking firearm at a match is only my name moving down a list.

I’d rather use FMJ’s to defend my life than some other load I don’t know for sure, will run 100%.

I don’t have a specific number of rounds I go by but can tell you that 5 or 10 would be too low for me to have much confidence.

 

[jmr40]

There was a time when people felt the need to run 200-300 rounds through a semi before they felt comfortable carrying it. Particularly 1911's with HP ammo. I think those days are long past, even with 1911's. If I can get a full mag to run through a new gun with no issues, then I'm OK carrying it. If ammo is short and I don't want to shoot up what I have then manually cycle a few mags through without firing. IME you're more likely to get a hang-up doing that than firing.

 

[Zerodefect]

I like my CCW to complete a professional 3 day class before carrying it. Even if remedial classes.

Any gun is reliable at a static range.

 

[dekibg]

I like my CCW to complete a professional 3 day class before carrying it. Even if remedial classes.

Any gun is reliable at a static range.

How realistic is “3 day professional CCW class before carrying it” for general population?
cost-wise ?
time-wise?
Senior age group-wise?
Reality of it reminds me of the borderline-silly “ use your handgun to fight your way to your rifle”. Yeah, we all always have a rifle or two laying around just in case , even when we are not home

 

[Zerodefect]

Do whatever you want to.

If you feel like shooting 3 rounds and juggling tennis balls for 5 min, is plenty, then go with it.

 

[bullseye308]

If it were me, I’d save 10 of the good hollow points for the top of the mag that the gun will be loaded with followed by whatever. Test with the rest. The odds of you needing to use it are so slim to begin with that saving 40 rounds for home defense is practically unheard of unless you are in a standoff with the government or a riot breaks out on your street. I don’t know you personally, but I’d bet the first is highly unlikely and the second is probably the same. For a bedside gun it will most likely not be an issue, there are thousands of folks that buy a gun, load it, and never shoot it unless they have to and seem to do fairly well that way. It’s not preferred, but many do it and survive.

My wife put 2 mags through her bedside gun 3 years ago and thinks she is good to go. I occasionally sneak it to the range and have put over 500 through it, clean it, and put it back ready to go. I’m betting that new gun is not the only one you have, so if you are truly worried, use one you have faith in until you can properly test it, then let it have its place bedside.

 

[Skinny Pete]

The question is : is firing 5 rounds of each brand of hollow points enough to give me an idea if I can count of these?

No
Not in my opinion and experience
I would honestly rather carry FMJ than untested HP
Reliability is going to be a far greater factor than some Gucci bullet expanding a few tenths

I also wouldn't trust a gun for self defense if I couldn't put at least a few hundred rounds through it first
This regardless of the projectile type

 

[golden]

dekibg,

I am testing a new BERETTA 92X Compact for my wife right now. Based on previous experience with BERETTA 92 pistols, I shot 100 rounds of 115 grain fmj, FEDERAL and ROMANIAN, then 50 rounds of 115 grain FEDERAL jhp followed by another 50 rounds of SIG 124 grain jhp. So far, so good. The ammo has been accurate with the FEDERAL grouping tighter in the fmj and the SIG doing very well compared with the FEDERAL 115 jhp ammo.
Next time, I will I go, I will bring some FEDERAL 124 grain HST jhp which is my ammo of choice for self defense and a box of +P or +P+ to see how different it shoots with a hotter load.
I test the guns by loading the magazines full with 13 rounds to make sure there will be no problems when so loaded., although normally, I only load 5 or 6 rounds for each stage of a qualification drill.

In the past, I have found that you may find out if you will have problems right from the first magazine. However, since my wife may need this gun to save her life, why take chances.

There is no written round limit, but if I try a number of different loads, I think it increases the chance that some kind of defect will show up.

By the way, I am doing the shooting because my wife has arthritis in her wrists and 300 rounds would be painful for her. It is not a machismo thing. The next time we go to the range, she will be shooting both fmj and HST.

Jim