Minimum black bear defense round

[sumpnz]

Thread title pretty much sums up the question.

My wife and I are planning a 4th of July trip to Colorado. We will be in confirmed black bear territory. I currently have a Ruger P94 (.40S&W) that I've carried as a 2-legged defensive piece, but I wasn't sure if that would have enough "oomph," even with Buffalo Bore ammo, to be an effective defense if cornered by a blackie. My wife has a .38 snubbie that we won't even bother taking into the woods.

So, bottom line. Is that .40 cal enough, or do I need to step up to 10mm/.41mag/.44mag/.45ACP/name your fav. If the .40 is good enough for me, would a 9x19 be good enough for my wife? How about a .357mag?

I am taking a CCW class this weekend (should result in me having the permit by early/mid May, plenty ahead of July, an CO does now honor AZ permits according to packing.org) so I'd prefer that whatever caliber is suggested that it be available in guns that are reasonably easy to conceal without the need for a trenchcoat. Unfortunatly, as far as I can tell, CO is not an open carry state. That pretty well rules out a 9" .44mag.

Please remember, I am NOT talking about hunting bears, nor am I talking about Griz (AFAIK there's only black bears in CO, but please correct if I'm wrong). And, yes, I know that avoiding bear encounters is the best defense, and knowing how to back off without shooting or mauling being involved is also preferable, but there are times when a gun is needed. Making sure I have something worthwhile is whole point here.

 

[Lennyjoe]

In a pinch the 40 will work but I would use FMJ instead of hollow points.

If you need to shop around for another caliber then look hard at the 10MM. The Witness can be had for around $300 and a Glock 20 can still be found around town for $480'ish.

Also, you can look into a .357 with a 4" barrel that will work too. There are quite a few of them around here.

Another item I would look at getting is pepper spray. That works well on the bad dudes too.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

For bear country in our Upper Peninsula, I carry my Colt Delta Elite with 200 gr solids. It is what I feel safest with of all my handguns. If I were you, I'd opt for a Glock 20.

 

[Hypnogator]

nor am I talking about Griz (AFAIK there's only black bears in CO, but please correct if I'm wrong).

You're wrong. There's Griz in them thar hills! They're rare, but they're there. (I'm a poet but don't know it.)

I'd recommend a good 4" or (preferably) 6" .357 Mag., preferably an N or L Frame Smith or equivalent Colt, Ruger, or Taurus. I carry a .44 Mag Redhawk when in the "big woods" and hunt deer with it, but it's a handful. Black bear aren't particularly hard to kill, and you'll do better with a .357 class weapon that you can shoot accurately than a .44 or .500 Mag that you'll flinch and miss with.

 

[River Wraith]

Get yourself a Glock 29. It's compact and 10mm, made for camping and hiking. You can't go wrong...unless you aim badly. Use Cor-Bon hunting loads with it.

 

[Deersniper]

I'd carry a .22

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

get a .357 revolver. small, compact and powerful as hell. black bears keep to themselves alot and are not as aggressive as grizzlys. so you'll be ok. but pepper spray in the small "fire extinguisher" type can, is always good.

for your wife you can get a small .357 as well. they arent the most expensive guns out there so it shouldnt be too bad. check out www.gunbroker.com for an idea about prices.

 

[Standing Wolf]

My two bits' worth: carry the gun you have, and have your wife carry a second gun in equal or greater caliber: you'll get off twice as many shots early on, when they're most critical—if, of course, you need to shoot.

Personally, I'm prejudiced against anything smaller than the .44 magnum in the woods.

 

[Preacherman]

I agree that .357 Magnum would be a minimum - check out Buffalo Bore or Georgia Arms for some good heavy loads for it (180gr. bullets for expansion and deep penetration). However, for my money, I'd rather spend a similar amount of money on a S&W 629 or Ruger Redhawk (my personal choice) in .44 Magnum. If a bear decides that you're on the menu, I prefer a more powerful dissuader!

In a pinch, your .40 S&W would work, but I'd suggest as potent a 180gr. load as you can get, and plan on emptying it, reloading, and emptying another magazine!

 

[Onmilo]

Having seen a black bear killed with one .22 lr high velocity solid fired from a Harrington Richardson 686 revolver I would say that it is the absolute minimum.
Personally I feel a lot more comfortable with an S&W .44 model 629 and a cylinder full of jacketed soft points.

 

[sumpnz]

Deersniper - Yeah, I know but I don't want to knee-cap my wife. She'll likely be the one carrying our daughter in the backpack (I'll have the food and such heavy stuff). Unless we have our good friend babysit. Besides, I don't think she'd be too pleased with me if I did that. Might make me wish the bear had gotten me instead.

There's a Crossroads sponsored gun show here in Phx next weekend. I'll see what sort of options I have there for both me (10mm - .44mag) and Mrs Sumpnz (.357 - 10mm). Have to look for some decent holsters too. Is there much difference in velocity (and hence effectivness) between a 4" and a 6" 10mm? The 4" would be easier to conceal, but if the 6" is that much more effective it might be worth it. Budget will be a big issue, so I might have to just get a .357 for my wife.

WRT pepper spray, that might work on a blackie. Wouldn't want to count on it against a Griz though.

 

[River Wraith]

I read that Black Bears are more likely then Grizzlies to engage in a predatory attack on a human. Grizzlies are more likely to attack to defend a cub or territory..or a carcass.The book was Bear Attacks:The Deadly Truth by Gary Shelton. He also wrote Bear Encounter Survival Guide. I highly recommend both.

 

[chaim]

I will start by saying I am not an expert on this area having never fought off a bear attack.

That said, most people seem to consider .357mag the bear ( ) minimum for bear, and .44mag is much preferred. I'm not sure if I'd want a 10mm, it isn't that it isn't that powerful (raw energy is comparable to .357), but I'm just not sure you'll have the penatration that you'll have with the heavier .357mag, .41mag, and .44mag hunting JSP rounds. I definately wouldn't want to rely on 10mm Special (.40S&W), though if you were going tomorrow and didn't have the time to pick up something else I wouldn't say to leave it at home. Since you will likely need to pick up something new anyway I'd say to stay away from 10mm or .357 since .357 is the bare (I'm sorry, bear ) minimum against bear. Go with a nice .41mag or .44mag or if you handload (or have access to some of the stronger, Ruger only loads) a .45LC (go with a Ruger for strength in .45LC). If you already had a .357mag then my advice might be a little different (it is the minimum, and it is important to be familiar and confident with your platform).

 

[Yooper]

I agree with chaim, if you're going to purchase a handgun specifically for bear protection, it might as well be a magnum revolver. I suggest a 44 mag, and a 6" or 6 1/2" barrel will probably be easier to master if time is limited. I use a 250 grain Keith hardcast bullet with either 23 gr W/W 296 or 21.6 gr 2400 and these approach maximum recommended loads. If maximum loads prove difficult, I suggest the same bullet loaded to about 1100 fps as a lighter load.

 

[BJPARKER]

River Wraith, I've read those books and they're great books. They definately give the real deal deal about bears.
Another option in a magnum with less recoil than the .44 is the S&W 657 .41mag, my personal favorite. Though if you're not already acquainted with magnums, the .357 4in barrel will, by far, be easier to learn to manage and be accurate with.

 

[mete]

Attacks by black bear are rare.I've met them face to face and they have always ignored me.They will look for food of course so that should be stored securely and not in your tent .To "defend" yourself ? Try a very loud whistle.As for a handgun 10mm or 41mag minimum.

 

[Cosmoline]

I actually worry more about the "little" black bear than the monster brown bears we have up here. I've only encountered brown bears from a distance, and they run off like the dickens. The black bears are a lot more likely to tolerate human activity, and they have been known to prey on people. I've been within ten feet of black bears alongside popular trails in the Anchorage area before they reveal themselves. When they look people up and down, they're not trying to be cute.

My choice remains a .357 revolver I can pack easily, draw quickly and fire rapidly. For me personally the big boomers are too heavy on the hip, to slow on the draw and too sluggish on followup shots.

 

[willeo6709]

12 gauge pump

I'd go with a 12 gauge pump, 18 or 20" rifle sighted barrel, loaded to the gills with 3 inch 1-1/4 ounce fosters.....mag extention tube and a not cheap weapon light. If you are shooting at a bear its gonna be in shotgun range... leave big holes and plenty of them, never get boxed into a corner.

 

[Sodbuster]

there's only black bears in CO

voice over: "Assume nothing"
que music: "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin

You have to have seen the Cadillac commercial

 

[SShooterZ]

I've been surrounded by black bears in NW Wisconsin and have always carried my XD-40 for protection. While I agree that a larger caliber MAG round would be preferred, I don't think you're going to lose much to a 200 - 300lbs bear.

Now, if you run into a grizzly, well, that's a different story. Better bring a Tommy gun with a 30 round mag to stop him.

I think the most important point is that you can ACCURATELY shoot what you're carrying. If you're pretty accurate with your current firearm and feel you can place a round in a vital area, preferable the head, than that is what I would carry.

If not, I think a .357 or .44 MAG Ruger revolver would offer the best in punch and affordability.

I also second the idea of pepper spray.

 

[cookekdjr]

1. Your Ruger in .40 is sufficient. If you are comfortable carrying it, then bring what you are already used to.

2. The most important rule for bear encounters is the same as the first rule of gunfighting: have a gun. So pick something that you will always carry with you, even if it means carrying a smaller caliber than ideal or a compact instead of fullsize. You want the gun to be light and compact enough that you won't be tempted to put it down, leave it in your tent, or o/w be without it.

3. Bearing rule #2 in mind, if your Ruger is too heavy I'd get a Glock 23. Holds 13 rounds of .40 cal yet is very light and compact. If .40 has to much recoil for your wife (which I doubt) she could carry the 19 (9mm).

4. Load fmj instead of hp's. The key for bear defense is penetration. There are recorded instances of brown bear kills with 124gr 9mm fmj loads (not ideal, but penetration was the key to breaking the bear's shoulder then setting up the finishing shots).
Good Luck and have fun.
-David
Edited to add: I've heard many Alaskans second Cosmoline's .357 suggestion. As a lighter alternative to a revolver you may consider a compact Glock in .357 Sig.
-D

 

[JamisJockey]

What exactly will you be doing? Do you know how to survive in bear country? Black bears rarely attack unless its over food or cubs. They don't see people as food.
Hiking: Keep food in your backpack, not on your body. Make plenty of noise. I'd go with a .357, I think thats plenty for a black bear. Trade your wife's .38 on a .357 snub for her. When you're in civilization she can shoot .38's out of it.
Camping: Don't sleep in the same clothes you cooked or ate in. Keep food a minimum of 50' from your tent, and cook as far away as you can. Bears will break into cars for food in areas they are accustomed to people. I'd be reasonably comfortable with the .40, as long as I had a 12ga nearby, loaded with slugs.
Pepper spray: Its handy to have when dealing with bears. If a bear is making you uncomfortable, but you don't feel like you could shoot it, spray it. Just make sure you're backed up with something more substantial....

 

[secamp32]

What type of .357 ammo

would you suggest for bear?

 

[Bear Gulch]

Mete hit it on the head. Besides, a big black is 350 pounds or roughly the size of an NFL lineman. .40 S&W with FMJs would be sufficient. Further, packing is not a replacement for practicing proper bear country camping skills.

 

[black bear]

You got a lot of good advise, I have hunted and shooted black bears, and I know how much punishment they can take, so that is why when I am not hunting them my revolver of choice (while fly fishing in bear country) is a Colt Anaconda .44 magnum with a 4" barrel.
I use Remington 240 grains jacket sof points, or equivalent.
Of course a Smith and Wesson .44 will serve as well.
I'll stay with the 4" barrel for comfort.
black bear