Minimum caliber for dog protection

[MCgunner]

I got a buddy that saw a neighbor's dog killing his chickens. He lives north of the city limits of Waco, outside Belmead, actually. Anyway, he was POed, stepped out on the second floor balcony and unloaded a magazine on the dog with his AR. Wasn't a lot left connected on the dog. The deputy that investigated the dog owner's complaint was impressed with the performance of 5.56mm and, seeing as the feather and chicken part evidence was everywhere, went next door to explain the situation to the neighbor. My friend doesn't like his neighbor anyway and has him good and intimidated, now.

 

[Kiln]

I got a buddy that saw a neighbor's dog killing his chickens. He lives north of the city limits of Waco, outside Belmead, actually. Anyway, he was POed, stepped out on the second floor balcony and unloaded a magazine on the dog with his AR. Wasn't a lot left connected on the dog. The deputy that investigated the dog owner's complaint was impressed with the performance of 5.56mm and, seeing as the feather and chicken part evidence was everywhere, went next door to explain the situation to the neighbor. My friend doesn't like his neighbor anyway and has him good and intimidated, now.

Yeah I would imagine that the 5.56 would be pretty sufficient in taking out varmints, though I've never owned one myself. But unless you're at home the 5.56 just isn't an option for protection against a dog unless you're one of those people who concealed carrys a PLR 16.

 

[GLOOB]

just stand up to the dog. don't run the dog wont attack unless it's rabid. im very experienced in this on country roads with dobs rotts mutts on foot you run you get bit you stand up to them they'll turn tail and run

Exactly. Any dog that can and will (without being trained specifically to do so) take on a wary adult that is standing his ground, is a breed that will soon be illegal to own as a pet, along with African cats and alligators. With all the controversy over certain breeds of dog, imagine if they were real man-killers. They would have been banned as pets a long time ago. Bark, charge, nip, growl? Yup. They'll do that all day.

Against a pack of aggressive dogs... well, hopefully they get the attention of the community before anything bad happens. Best defense would probably be spray and/or loud noise.

 

[DM~]

Exactly. Any dog that can and will (without being trained specifically to do so) take on a wary adult that is standing his ground, is a breed that will soon be illegal to own as a pet, along with African cats and alligators. With all the controversy over certain breeds of dog, imagine if they were real man-killers. They would have been banned as pets a long time ago. Bark, charge, nip, growl? Yup. They'll do that all day.

Against a pack of aggressive dogs... well, hopefully they get the attention of the community before anything bad happens. Best defense would probably be spray and/or loud noise.

Any dog that will bite me or anyone else on MY property will be SHOT and not with pepperspray. Too many kids are being chewed up by biteing dogs, and i for one don't need dogs that are that aggressive around.... peroid!

That's just what you need to tell a small kid in your yard..... "honey, just stand up to it!! and you won't get bit". RIGHT!

KEEP YOUR DOG HOME and it won't get shot! That's what i do with mine!

DM

 

[Ben86]

Which is why 38+P or 357 JHP is what we choose to keep handy for home defense.
Which is what I would be carrying, in handgun or in carbine, depending on environment, if concerned about being attacked by either dog or man.

Wait. You have a .357 or .38sp carbine?

 

[sixgunner455]

Marlin, Rossi, and others make .357 lever carbines. Very cool little guns.

 

[Jitterbug]

Living in Boulder, I think you'd be better off giving up jogging, the dogs were there first you know.

I'm just outside the land of fruits and nuts and one of my biggest concerns is using a CCW on any 4 legged animal. I figure getting chewed or eaten by a four legged critter is a better alternative then to what the courts and media will do to ya.

Hospitals and funeral arrangements are probably cheaper then attorneys too.

 

[Dogguy]

You leave yourself open to a civil suit for shooting someone's dog, even though it might be trying to bite you. A pack of wild dogs is another matter, of course.

Overall, your wiser course of action is the strongest pepper spray you can legally buy.

 

[defcon]

You leave yourself open to a civil suit for shooting someone's dog, even though it might be trying to bite you. A pack of wild dogs is another matter, of course.

Overall, your wiser course of action is the strongest pepper spray you can legally buy.

I tried to point that out on page 6 also.

 

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>You leave yourself open to a civil suit for shooting someone's dog, even though it might be trying to bite you. A pack of wild dogs is another matter, of course.<

Yessir. That's a fact...and it can get pretty bad even if the owner doesn't sue. There's a lot to be said for not firing in residential areas unless it's absolutely necessary.

A pointy stick about five feet long and a can of pepper spray should take care of 99.9% of the bad dog problems you're likely to encounter. The gun on your belt is there for that point-one percent that goes wrong.

A good/wise practice is to start thinking of the gun as the last resort instead of the first response. It'll go a long way toward keepin' ya out of court.

 

[Karl Hungus]

Any dog that will bite me or anyone else on MY property will be SHOT and not with pepperspray.

That's great, but the thread is about a guy jogging (presumably in the suburbs of Boulder), not what's going on on YOUR property.

 

[gscrasher]

Tonight's 10pm news in Albuquerque described a case from earlier today where a pit bull attacked a full grown horse, while a woman was riding the horse. The dog brought the 1000 lb.-horse down just as they entered the woman's corral. Fortunately, her husband, after unsuccessfully attacking the dog with a set of antlers, retrieved his shotgun and put an end to the dog.

New Mexico is somewhat special in regard to the high frequency of pit bull attacks on humans possibly because dog fighting is still a popular activity here. This leads to many fight-trained/abused dogs of this variety. The local news also carries many stories of animal abuse concerning pit bulls. It is part of the culture here that is very disheartening.

 

[Oyeboten]

I have long wished for a very nice pet Hyena who could be part of our Family here.

They are very family oriented, sensitive to hierarchy and status just as most Dogs are, intelligent, and, are very good protection against any stray or malevolent Dogs ( or people ) which might attack one as one is out doing Yard Work or walking or whatever.

No Routwiler or Pit Bull or Boxer or Spitz or Mastif or any Dog breed ( or Wolf even ) would last five seconds if they insulted or aggressed against a Hyena, or against any of the Hyena's family or friends if the Hyena is present.

The Pit Bull would run up, and lunging, bite the Hyena on the Throat or Neck or Shoulder, getting no where and not getting through the furr, though hanging on of course, and, the Hyena would instantly remove the Pitt Bull's Legs with a few easy lightning fast bites, and, then disenbowel it, and, shake off the by then mostly exanguine corpse with head...no worse for wear.

 

[Diggers]

I sometimes jog with my LCP .380 in a holster shirt. Works pretty well because its a very light gun.

I vote for the pepper spray also. I've been sprayed with OC and its not fun at all, cant imagine having the senses a dog has and being exposed to OC. Yikes!

 

[Ben86]

A pointy stick about five feet long and a can of pepper spray should take care of 99.9% of the bad dog problems you're likely to encounter.

Who goes running with a five foot stick? That sounds quite unwieldy. Maybe an ASP would work. Pepper spray is a better idea than a gun though legally speaking. It's good to have a gun on you as well, but if you can stop the attack without killing the dog that may be a better legal option.

Marlin, Rossi, and others make .357 lever carbines. Very cool little guns.

Sweet, I'm going to have to check those out.

 

[1911Tuner]

Well, Ben...it ain't gotta be a staff. About a half-inch in diameter and real pointy will suffice, and a little discomfort beats spendin' the night in jail...and your kids' college fund...defending a possible criminal action and a nearly guaranteed civil suit.

Shorten it to four feet if you'd like.

 

[Guillermo]

John,

Interesting that you do not recommend a firearm even though you are with us only because you had a gun, unholstered, which saved you from death by dog attack.

 

[1911Tuner]

I wasn't on my feet in a populated section of town. I was in a semi-reclined position in a remote area...roused out of a sleep...by a pack of dogs who were within springing distance. There wasn't a lot of time available.

Little difference there...

 

[Stainz]

I had a friend , a LEO, who once emptied his .40 S&W Glock at a charging pit bull, putting five or more in it's body. It stopped at his feet, gurgling - he reloaded and dispatched it with a head shot. He got permission to carry a .45 Colt 625 MG - worked better, he just got tired of dispatching animals. He then changed his duty station, losing the call him for mad dog responses. I lost touch with him... he was a good guy.

I carry a 642 with it's usual +P 158gr LHPSWC loads when I walk the neighborhood - and avoid the streets where rotts, shepherds, & pit bulls roam. The revolver is personal protection - from bad guys. I walked the neighborhood around school bus time in the AM, thinking owners of such dogs would control them. Wrong - they are usually the most careless of pet owners - or why would they be roaming free? Personal responsibility, what's that?

I have six inside-only cats... two will 'attack' you when you enter the house - demanding your attention. A third will come out soon - and try to trip you by rubbing your legs. The other three will hide - seemingly forever. I got five down to the basement before the tornado jumped us last week - one hid real well - from me. Good pets.

Stainz

 

[Guillermo]

I know...and Thank God you had your gun in your lap or we would not be having this conversation.

But from your description of the event even if you were awake, a stick does not sound as though it would have been effective.

 

[SleazyRider]

Quote:

>A good/wise practice is to start thinking of the gun as the last resort instead of the first response. It'll go a long way toward keepin' ya out of court.

I've gotten a lot of terrific advice on The High Road, and this ranks among the very best! Well said, sir!

 

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

>But from your description of the event even if you were awake, a stick does not sound as though it would have been effective. <

Not lying down against a pack of ferals intent on having me for breakfast, for sure. On my feet, with one territorial aggressive dog? Yep. A sharp stick rammed down the throat turns'em off about as quick as anything.

 

[MCgunner]

Marlin, Rossi, and others make .357 lever carbines. Very cool little guns.

 

[dagger dog]

I have been dog bitten, not nipped, several times, more than I like to count.

A dog will bite you if he afraid, injured, or teased.

Then there is the dog that is guarding HIS turf or property, that includes HIS people, don't turn your back on him,no matter how small, you are on HIS property or diturbing HIS kin and he has the right to confront you, this is the dog you have to back away from, plus you do not want to make direct eye contact.

The other type dogs mentioned are easily handled with pepper spray loud noises etc.

Then you get into the HOTTER breeds as in thouroughbreds your Pits, Rots, Chows,among others, when these dogs fixate on a target they are very hard to handle, some were bred for the express purpose of dragging down and killing.

When SEEING RED the only way to stop them is by killing and is best handled with a firearm.

But we as men are the ones that bred them for such traits, and our duty is to KNOW WHEN TO RETREAT. Most man dog confrontations are easily stopped by simply backing away, it saves the dog plus it saves the MAN.

Now a savage horse that's a different story!

 

[Rexster]

I managed to knock a medium-sized dog unconscious with a three-foot wooden dowel I carried while running, back before I could legally carry a handgun. IIRC, it was 5/8" or 3/4" in diameter. One well-timed blow to the side of the head and the dog dropped, unmoving, for several seconds, then got up slowly, and ran off. He was fine by the next day, and never chased me again.

I favor .357 Magnum nowadays, but still believe I would carry a stick if I again take up running in a rural area. Body language and stern verbal warnings will deter most dogs, and the stick backs that up. I would rather not shoot a dog if I can avoid it, though a truly dangerous dog is certainly an exception, and I might be inclined to intervene rather aggressively, with my badge to back up my actions.

I work for a large PD. We shoot several humans a year, and more dogs than humans, mostly using .40 duty pistols and shotguns. .40 seems to stop dogs quite successfully. We don't shoot humans or dogs unless there is an imminent and specific threat, as per policy. We don't just go around shooting loose dogs because they are unconfined.