Mississippi Militia standoff(lasting 1997-1999)

[LawDog]

SEEL!

what the crap does that mean?

Some time ago, a young gentleman appeared upon our sister Forum TFL and claimed to be a SuperSecretDeadly Navy SEEL.

Not realizing that among the several thousand members are a few of us who didn't fall off the turnip truck last night.

We gently pointed out that if he were, indeed, a member of the naval Special Operations unit, he would probably at least know how to spell the name right.

He then tried to tell us that he wasn't a SEAL, he was a SEEL and that they were top secret so noone would know anything about them.

*sigh* Youth, these days.

It was kind of amusing to do terrible things to the poor little sprog, before the owner of the site took pity on him and sent him packing.

Since then, SEEL has become THR's word for wannabes.

LawDog

 

[Mr_Moore]

Yep, I am a computer engineer.

Child, it's the Internet. Between the IP address you register with every post, and the two different homepages you left in your Profile -- one of which is the actual homepage of your militia, complete with 'Members Only' area and sohelpmeMother a photo album and an open phpBB Forum -- any half-way decent script kiddie would have the names and locations of 90% of your militia within 48 hours.

LawDog

I am a computer engineer and I can tell you that LawDog is absolutely correct. Law enforcement will probably have your SSN, picture, telphone number, etc. within 24 hours.

It may take the papers and news agencies longer.

 

[LawDog]

Mr. Moore, enough, if you please.

Thank you.

LawDog

 

[V4Vendetta]

I know a lady who is Indian*. Her tribe owns a lot of land out West. When the government gave it to her tribe several hundred years ago, it was mostly desert witha few cactus's. Now it's got lakes, grass, trees & is worth around $2 million dollars. Now the government wants it back. The FBI came out there & tried to take it by force. Indians came from everywhere with rifles & shotguns. The media was there so nothing happened. But just think, your home could be next. It might not have lakes or be worth 2 million bucks, but your home is your home.

I think that if the milita would have stayed & helped the family, they should've been given the Medal of Honor. I read the whole article & I never read that the militia was paid or bribed to help. They risked their lives for their friends. THAT, is what being a human being is all about. It saddens me that the family lost their home. I haven't ever been in their position, but I prepare my mind & body for the time I might be.







*I don't care for political correctness.

 

[Mr_Moore]

Its your forum.

Mr. Moore, enough, if you please.

Thank you.

LawDog

Ok, if you say so. I am going to take the actions I mentioned, but I will not be making anymore posts in this thread.

 

[jefnvk]

Guess its supply boy for you then,cause this isn't no middle aged unit(oldest member is early 30's.)

That's the physical fitness requirement for this unit.Most militias have lower standards,but the vast majority aren't fat slobs as in the above.I know you looked for the fattest militia pictures you could find.Everyone who don't realize that is a dumbass.Am i insulting your intelligence.Well, i hope not.

http://www.mississippimilitia.com/pic21.jpg

The guys in this picture can do a mile in 7, and 60 pushups and situps? Or, are they the supply boys? Lemme guess, that's pure muscle.

And I don't know too many people up here that play soccer. You do know, of course, that according to a few sites I have glanced over, that your requirments are more strenious than the minimums for organizations like the Rangers and SEAL's?

SEAL - http://www.stewsmith.com/linkpages/seal.htm
Rangers - http://www.stewsmith.com/linkpages/pftstandards.htm

 

[NineseveN]

Ok, if you say so. I am going to take the actions I mentioned, but I will not be making anymore posts in this thread.

You know, that kind of tactic is gonna backfire on you one day, take the High Road...if you truly believed that the militia guy was plotting a serious crime, then I would have no words about this, but for you to invite the excrutiating pain of a Federal investigation or a news expose over a disagreement on the internet is mighty low, snails don't get that far down...not saying you're a bad guy, but what you're doing is not the high road.

You seem to make light of his claims of being in an actual militia or one capable of anyting other than being an annotance and grandstanding, yet you elevate this to the level of a tip to the FBI, and the MODs might just let you get away with this...not cool.

Sure, invite the FBI to this site, though I am sure they already know about it, it only takes a casual relationship for the powers that be or the media to link this site with militia activity and paint it in a negative light...it won't matter that a member reported it, and it don't matter if it's true or not, the media and yes, even the Feds have a habit of making mountains out of ditches when they want to on a hot buton issue.

But do as you will, the karma will be surprising no doubt.



'don't mess with me on the internet or I'll tell te FBI about you'...E-thuggery at its finest.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Here is the body of my tip to the FBI.

At the following internet location, I believe a self proclaimed militia member/terrorist is inciting the violent overthrow of the government.
He may also be trying to recruit members.

Now to the newspapers and local TV.

I would appreciate you keeping the FBI and media out of your personal distaste of the Attala and the militia movement. I saw no threats in his post to overthrow anything. Armed resistance, yes; maybe in circumstances considered poor judgment . . .

I'd rather not see this community fall under the spotlight of such scrunity. If so, I will go away. The moderators here have that responsibility, not you. Let them decide whom they feel they should report to the authorities.

And you personally need to tone it down. Your vitriol is palpable thru the screen. If you disagree, fine. Please do it with civility. There is a reason I have chosen to consort here and contribute, and avoid other on line communities. Exchanges like this is one of them.

 

[Jeff White]

Attala_County said;

To answer the question:
Level 1 training:
Run a mile in 7 mins
60 pushups(at once)
60 situps(at once)
10 Pull ups(at once)


20 shots at 100 yds on a man sized target(Accuracy 100%)

Basic squad training
Basic land navigation training
Basic communications training(radio and hand signals)
Basic survival in isolation training

I have some questions about your PT standards:

60 pushups (at once) - what does at once mean? Is there a time limit or do they have as much time as they need as long as they don't go to their knees.

60 situps (at once) - Again, is there a time standard?

How about the pullups? Time standards? Palms in or palms out?

Now to get to your other standards:

Basic squad training - this is pretty vague. It could mean anything from close order drill, to basic fire and maneuver, to CQB.

Basic land navigation training - Define basic land nav training. Th9is could mean anything from readind a road map to not being afraid to pull into the gas stations and ask directions. Day and night problems? Dead reckoning and terrrain association, field expediant methods of finding directions?

Basic communications training(radio and hand signals) - voice or code? AM/FM? Field expediant antennas?

Basic survival in isolation training - this one is interesting. Living off the land? Resistance to interrogation?

20 shots at 100 yds on a man sized target(Accuracy 100%) Ok so they have to be able to put 20 rounds into a man sized target at 100 yards. How big is your man sized target? Is there a time limit? What position do they have to shoot from? What weapon do they use? What is the standard weapon of the Mississippi Militia?

How many hours of instruction does your level 1 course have? What are the tasks conditions and standards for each part of the course? How do you know if someone passed? I'd think a unit led by a former SEAL and full of current and former police officers and military personnel would have a more professional training program. I'm sure you just gave me the highlights. Fill in the details for us.

Jeff

 

[Jeff White]

Been looking at your website for answers to my questions

Equipment:
http://www.mississippimilitia.com/training.htm

Basic equipment

1. King James Bible - I know what you are saying, "Why does it have to be the King James version?" "It has all those thee's and thou's and I really don't understand it." Thee and thou both mean you and look up John 5:4 in the NIV and tell me what it says.

2. Rifle and ammunition - this is pretty much your choice, but I would recommend .223, 7.62 x 39 or .308 because these are military calibers and are readily available. 1,000 rounds of ammunition on hand minimum. You should carry no less than 200 rounds when training.

3. Side arm - there are two trains of thought on this issue, one is to the reliability of the revolver and the other is to the fire power of the semi-auto. I think people who prefer revolvers believe each shot should count while those with semi-autos are more apt to "spray and pray." I own both and I incorporate both philosophies in that the more ammo carried the better, especially when I can put it on the target where it needs to be.

4. Shelter - a tent or tarp will do, just something to keep you out of the weather, but in the summer you will also face insects so mosquito netting may be needed.

5. Bed roll - this is dictated by your environment. In north Mississippi we have sub-freezing nights in the winter and above 80 degree nights in the summer. Many of my friends have extreme cold sleeping bags while I use an intermediate cold with a wool blanket on cold nights. Both are mummy bags and I would not recommend anything else, you can sleep on top of it in the summer. A rubber sleeping mat will reduce the chill of the cold ground while also providing a little cushion.

6. Food - this includes a mess kit and the utensils needed to prepare and eat it. I would have to add that a lot of people carry MRE's, they are easy to deal with but are also expensive. Canned goods from your grocer such as "Chef Boyardee" can be carried and eaten without heating. I also carry some type of canned fruit; peaches, pears or mixed. A three day supply is recommended.

7. Water - two canteens minimum. You should also have some chlorine tabs for purification or a portable purification system; a friend of mine has one of these, he can suck water right out of the ditch and it's good to drink.

8. Rain gear - since you aren't about to go trompin' through the woods with an umbrella I suggest a poncho. Spend some money and get a good one, they're light weight and easy to carry when you don't need it, and when you do, you'll be glad you have it.

9. Matches - cigarette lighters or some form of combustion. At the end of the day a fire will be most useful, whether for warmth or cooking. In a wet climate normal matches may not work so I suggest dipping the ends in candle wax.

10. Clothing - it should fit the season. If you are going out in the winter you need a good coat, warm gloves, head-gear and thermal underwear. In the summer you need light clothing, head-gear to keep your grape from becoming a raisin and insect repellant. Always carry extra underwear.

11. Foot-wear - any pair of 6 -8" boots will offer amble ankle support and with the right socks can be worn in any type of weather. Nike, Adidas, Reebok, New Balance, etc. all offer cross-training shoes that are good for hiking unless you are going into deep snows or swamps. In the winter you need to keep your feet warm so insulated boots may be necessary to keep you from misery. Remember that foot powder goes on your feet and not in your boots.

12. Machete, hatchet, knife, shovel - any of these that can be used for clearing your way through the forest, cutting fire wood, turning dirt or digging a hole. I could do any of them with any of these, it just may take longer with some.

13. Compass or GPS - you should always know where you are and where you want to be. Landmarks in your area should be pointed out to everyone in your party so if anyone gets lost they can find their way home. Maps of your local activity or planned excursions should be available on-line and distributed to all party members.

14. Communications - FRS radios should be carried by all individuals, whether in a convoy on the highway or as a point man in the field; the ability to communicate is a must.

Are you sure someone with military experience came up with this list? Unfortunately the other links only gave some very basic instructions and didn't tell me anything about the standards or how you train. How do you guys expect to field an effective force if you don't have measurable standards that you can be relatively certain that all your troops can meet. There is nothing about collective training at all. Is Mississippi one of the 28 states that have laws against para-military training? Is that why it's not mentioned?

Sorry but so far you guys aren't looking like any more of a credible force then any other militia I've looked at....

Jeff

 

[Old Dog]

The ten pull-ups thing cracks me up ... I'd pay to see video of all the members of the "MS Militia" working on their pull-ups ...

Attala_County asked:

Are yall going to let a troll do this?

I ask (after reading through this whole, weirdly fascinating thread): Who's the troll here?

BullfrogKen: Good post, thanks.

 

[Art Eatman]

When I get too old to do anything useful, I may resurrect and read this thread...

, Art

 

[EghtySx]

I am surprised this thread isn't already closed. I expected and kinda wished for it a coupla pages ago. At least it's new guys acting that way. I can't see any High Roaders acting like this because it degraded way off The High Road long ago. I'm not talking about anything criminal, just childish and too contentious for this place. You know that good feeling you get when you read a THR thread, not at all like this one feels.

 

[atk]

Child, it's the Internet. Between the IP address you register with every post, and the two different homepages you left in your Profile -- one of which is the actual homepage of your militia... any half-way decent script kiddie would have the names and locations of 90% of your militia within 48 hours.

From the "Contact Us" page of the Mississippi Militia homepage:

Commander Drew Rayner, Mississippi Militia: [email protected]

I'm somewhat dissapointed at the general conversation in this thread, and wish to bring up a few points.

First, militias, in and of themselves, are not bad. Every able bodied male between 18 and 60 (IIRC) is officially a member of the Unorganized Militia of the United States of America.

Second, there are some organizations, for better or worse, who call themselves militias, and who advance agendas that are inappropriate (overthrow of the government prior to the other 3 boxes of freedom failing, racism, etc). These are the organizations that give militias a bad name, and the only ones that the mainstream media chooses to showcase.

Third, the bad apples to not represent all militia forces, and I see many people who appear to believe that they do (I also see many people who are reacting directly to what the MI Militia member says, here).

Fourth, as LawDog put it, (I'm still on page 6 of the thread, right now), there seems to be an air of "Super Secret Squirrel" going on, here. Whether paraniod or deserved, it will (and probably already has) made the conversation take a turn for the worse. If there's a good reason - and verifiable proof that it's necessary, and that reason is explained (and proven), I hope people will accept it. Otherwise, it's a losing argument to bring it up (just like bringing up Hitler or Nazis when arguing with an anti).




I say the above as a member of the Massachusetts State Guard (www.mastateguard.com), direct descendent of the Massachusetts Volunteer Militia, which existed (and served the Commonwealth of Massachusetts) during the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WWI, WWII, The Korean War, and The War in Viet Nam.

 

[Thin Black Line]

You mean back when blackie knew his place and you could beat your wife and kids with no fear of punishment? That America?

I am personally glad to see it gone.

Oh, I see, since I don't agree with you, I must be a racist, wife-beater,
and a child-abuser?

I'd ask you to look up "sophistry" but you already seem to be an expert
user of that technique.

In any case, I guess you're also glad to see the America pass away where
our children were the best-educated in the world and ranked among the
highest in reading and math. I think we're about two dozen down on the list
for both now.

Yes, let's toast the new America that produces more lawyers than chemists!

 

[Jeff White]

ATK,
There is a big difference between a sanctioned state guard force and the Michigan, Missouri, of Mississippi militia. The state guard units are in keeping with the true spirit of the militia as it's defined in the constitution. Volunteers who respond to the call of the electedd authority in times of need.

These other militias have a political agenda of their own and are waiting for the time that they are they authority. They claim to stand by to protect their particular version of the constitution. Did you catch Attala_County's post about having to re-read the federalist and anti-federalist papers before he could come up with an answer to a question?

These groups are nothing more then armed political parties. Armed political parties belong in Russia in 1917, Germany in the 1930s and places like Somalia today. They are not a legitimate part of the American political system.

We have a system that allows the average citizen more opportunity to participate in his government then any other place on Earth. Yet the members of these so called militias seem unable to work within the system. It never occurred to them to join the local Democrat or republican party and to try to advance their agenda by conventional means. Perhaps their agenda, which could be anything from racism, anti-semeticism, or the establishment of a Tailban like Christian theocracy in the US is so out of the of the mainstream of political thought they can't function within the system. Then there is the fun factor, the Democrats and republicans don't have secret meetings where they show off their new Ram Line 30 round magazines for their Ruger 10-22s and discuss the best way to modify a Yugo SKS to accept an AK magazine. The Democrats and republicans don't talk about taking over by force when things get too bad. As bad as things are loooking for the DNC these days and as upset as the Democrats are at being out of power, I doubt Howard Dean is planning on arming the party rank and file to win the next election by force.

I spent almost 29 years in uniform defending the constitution. Since retirement I work full time as a peace officer in an area that is full of militia types. Some of them can be dangerous, but it was a big eye opener watching a member of one of these groups crying like a child while he was on his way to jail for driving without a license because his particular group insisted that there was no constitutional authority for requiring drivers licenses. Obviously, at least for that member, it never occurred to him that there would be legal penalties for the stand he took.

Jeff

 

[atk]

Jeff,

I appreciate your response. You've dealt with fringe extremists, and come to the conversation with experience. I've never (knowingly) dealt with such folk, so I can't claim the same experience.

Attala_County's post about having to re-read the federalist and anti-federalist papers before he could come up with an answer to a question

.

I missed that comment (comment #78 on page 4 of this thread). I've cut and pasted it, here:

ok,it depends on how you interpret just compensation.You do bring up a valid point.Thanks.i need to brush up on that part of the 5th amendment.Check the federalist and anti-federalist papers.I've found that to be more reliable than "precident."But i guess that depends on whether the constitution or court decisions are precident.

Ahhhhh.....im speculating.Better make sure.

Attala_County does bring up a good point, which others in this thread have echoed: the interpretation of "just compensation" is very important when eminent domain is to be invoked. And I see nothing wrong with looking back at the Federalist and AntiFederalist papers to help one form an opinion - we do this all the time when we talk about the Second Ammendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

I do question Attala_County's apparant disregard for precident (though I may be misreading what he says). It is part of our system, and I tend to like it there.

These groups are nothing more then armed political parties.

Just to be clear, you mean that they are groups that intend to use force to further their political goals, without using the system, right? I just ask because I could easily see that (or a similar) comment used against the NRA, NRA-ILA, GOA, etc. *grin*


I suspect I'm misinterpreting people, or, at the very least, I'm misreading your intent, but I would like to clarify one thing more: is it just the extreme fringe that you're against, or is it private militias in general? I suspect it's the... loopy ones (sorry, I can't think of a better word, right now) that you dislike, but I just want to clearly understand. In fact, I'm interested in other folks' points of view, too, since Jeff obviously doesn't speak for everyone.

It is my understanding that all militias were private in the early years of the US - until activated by the local authorities. All militias were equipped by themselves or by their unit commanders (if they were lucky enough to have a rich commander).

 

[richyoung]

So which one of your group has decided that he's this generations George Washington?

LawDog

??? What group?

Rich

 

[yucaipa]

Child, it's the Internet. Between the IP address you register with every post, and the two different homepages you left in your Profile -- one of which is the actual homepage of your militia, complete with 'Members Only' area and sohelpmeMother a photo album and an open phpBB Forum -- any half-way decent script kiddie would have the names and locations of 90% of your militia within 48 hours.

Goddess preserve me from the SooperSecretSquirrels. "Get intel on us". Judas tapdancing Priest.

LawDog

I enjoyed the "photo album" too, especially the picture of you all at "partisan rock"

My question is, if I join the MM how many times do I have to watch "Red dawn" before I'm an Officer?

 

[Attala_County]

Nutty question. If you actually read what i said before you would find that the Attala County unit physical traing is a higher standard than most militias including the state militia.nuff said...

and Jeff White.

Anybody can say what you just said. it doesn't mean its true.

political bull???? more than likely.

 

[Attala_County]

Oh yeah! I don't have time to answer 10 billion questions from everybody.Because i gota go to work.

Yall behave now.

 

[publius]

The problem is, who gets to decide? Traditionally that's been left to the elected officials, with the proviso that they must provide just compensation. A public golf course and noise abatement, however frivolous you may fell they are, are still legitimate reasons to take private property.

The question of taking property and turning it over to private developers is a different matter.

I just re-read Justice Thomas' dissent in the Kelo case with this incident in mind, and I'm w/Cosmo on this one. If a road is a public use, so is an airport. Both have a buffer area. A road has shoulders, an airport has the extended centerline of each runway.

Plus, it's really funny to think about everyone getting really quiet so that Tiger Woods can putt, and then a 747 blasting overhead at full power. It's also funny to think about taking an entire neighborhood, turning it into a golf course, but leaving one house because that particular guy isn't bothered by the noise.

Seriously, golf courses are a good thing to have at the end of a runway, and if the public is going to own the land, they might as well do something with it. If you takeoff isn't going so well, that par 5 fairway will look pretty attractive....

If so, the proper response would have been to oust the elected officials and reverse the decision. I also have sympathy for a HOMEOWNER who defends HIS property. I have much less sympathy for the intervention of a self-styled militia.

Not with you there, at least in the context of this case. If airports and noise abatement are "public use" like highways, the purpose of eminent domain is to keep one stubborn SOB from holding the whole thing hostage. That applies whether he acts alone or with friends.