Mississippi Militia standoff(lasting 1997-1999)

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Irrational and inflamatory argument.

A line has just been crossed and I think we need to take a step back to see it. We're dealing with a troll. Seriously. I'm going to copy a statement here, comment on it, and then advise we all be very circumspect in what we say. Also, I fear rational argument will have no effect as we are dealing with a social liberal, in the worst sense of the term.

Quote:
You mean back when blackie knew his place and you could beat your wife and kids with no fear of punishment? That America?
Also:
So you think the average militia member, is, educated? Ok...

When pressed to define and defend his position he resorts to implying racism and sexism where none existed until he introduced it and assumes his intellect is beyond we mere mortals (even though he misspelled "jihad"). I'm happy to discuss the issue while ignoring the troll.
 
Oh, and as for "militia members," lemme tell y'all a story.

The place: Knob Creek, toward the end of the last decade.

This was when the campground was packed and VERY rowdy. We pulled in, and found a place to camp. I was next to a large white tent.

Turned out that was the home base for the Kentucky militia, and it's general, whose name I don't remember, but he may still be a fugitive from justice. They seemed like an okay buncha fellows the first evening.

Second evening, some shortwave talk show broadcaster showed up, and everyone started talkin' about The Problem. Turned out the problem had many names, generally involving the term "mud people."

Well, I was drinking bourbon. I essentially offered to whip their asses, singly or en masse. Of course, I had a few friends watching my back.

Last I heard, their "general" was running from the law, and they don't really exist anymore.
 
So you think the average militia member, is, educated? Ok...
Click to expand...

As Attala pointed out, the average militia member is you and I, sir, whether you like it or not. And I, most certainly, am educated.

It sounds like you've bought in to the MSM propaganda of the last decade, equating the word "militia" with white supremacist bubbas built like Homer Simpson. I'm not defending those jokers. I guess what I'm saying is that making the baseless claim that someone is uneducated because they exercised their rights (within the law) beyond a point that you would choose to, is the same crap we get from the anti-gun/pro socialist crowd. I think we should be above that.
 
Actually I am the uneducated one.

What are the laws concerning the formation of militias? I don't mean just the constitutional cite but laws since then.

Can I get a bunch of buddies togeather and declare ourselves a militia. I know we could do it, but what would our legal standing be? Could we decide to attack court houses, police stations? Well obviously we could, but what would the consequences be?

I can not believe that just anyone can form an armed force here in the US.

However, this group says there are militias in every state.
http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_us.htm
However when I clicked on PA none of the counties had a link to a militia.

This group keeps track of militias
http://www.militia-watchdog.org/default.asp

I think I have a lot of reading to do.
 
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militia-watchdog is a child of the ADL. Do a search for "gun control" on their site. They're no friend of the second amendment. A bunch of pro-U.N. hacks.

You may also want to look up the definition of "jehad" (jihad). I didn't see religion come into play anywhere in that story.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

1911 guy said:
A line has just been crossed and I think we need to take a step back to see it. We're dealing with a troll. Seriously. I'm going to copy a statement here, comment on it, and then advise we all be very circumspect in what we say. Also, I fear rational argument will have no effect as we are dealing with a social liberal, in the worst sense of the term.

Quote:
You mean back when blackie knew his place and you could beat your wife and kids with no fear of punishment? That America?
Also:
So you think the average militia member, is, educated? Ok...

When pressed to define and defend his position he resorts to implying racism and sexism where none existed until he introduced it and assumes his intellect is beyond we mere mortals (even though he misspelled "jihad"). I'm happy to discuss the issue while ignoring the troll.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I came across as a troll or extremist liberal.

I also know that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.

However, my understanding of militias is that they are the new hiding places of KKK and neo-nazis. Of course they deny that. I have heard that there is racism, sexism, violence and general xenophobia in these groups. I have never belonged to a militia so I might be wrong - however, their reputation preceeds them.

I think I did let my emotions get the best of me in my posts in this thread. Thanks for pointing that out. I should never lose my temper.
 
hayseed said:
militia-watchdog is a child of the ADL. Do a search for "gun control" on their site. They're no friend of the second amendment. A bunch of pro-U.N. hacks.

You may also want to look up the definition of "jehad" (jihad). I didn't see religion come into play anywhere in that story.
Click to expand...

I did look up "gun control" and found that they were listing gun crimes committed by militia members.

Darrell W. Sivik, a 57-year-old militia member from Crawford County, Pennsylvania, has pleaded guilty in federal court to two counts of possessing unregistered firearms.

On January 31, 2004, a day before his trial was to begin, Sivik admitted stockpiling 10 illegal or unregistered machine guns at his home and at a hunting camp near the Allegheny National Forest.

Sivik, who faces up to 10 years in prison, admitted selling a gun to Charles Bilunka, head of the Christian American Patriot Survivalists. The latter is a militia group that agents said has trained to kill law enforcement officers in preparation for "Armageddon," which Bilunka predicted will occur in 2012.
Click to expand...
 
No hard feelings here, Mr. Moore.:)


I
did look up "gun control" and found that they were listing gun crimes committed by militia members.
Click to expand...

Again, does that guy represent the militia, as in, the armed populace? You may have missed the "visit to a gun show" article equating the NRA and everyone at that show with far right extremism. They are against guns in individual hands, plain and simple. Odd for an organization that claims to look out for our Jewish friends.

How
ever, my understanding of militias is that they are the new hiding places of KKK and neo-nazis. Of course they deny that. I have heard that there is racism, sexism, violence and general xenophobia in these groups. I have never belonged to a militia so I might be wrong - however, their reputation preceeds them.
Click to expand...

Replace "militia" with "the NRA", "gun owners", or "gun clubs" and you'll get my point.
 
hayseed said:
No hard feelings here, Mr. Moore.:)


I

Again, does that guy represent the militia, as in, the armed populace? You may have missed the "visit to a gun show" article equating the NRA and everyone at that show with far right extremism. They are against guns in individual hands, plain and simple. Odd for an organization that claims to look out for our Jewish friends.

How

Replace "militia" with "the NRA", "gun owners", or "gun clubs" and you'll get my point.
Click to expand...

Thanks for saying there were no hard feelings.

I did miss "visit to a gun show". It may have been my search string.

That is a scary thought if you replace militia with "gun owners" cuz now its against me.
 
I don't think the mainstream media would want to cover a story like this since the mainstream is basically controlled by the government.They don't seem to like to put out storys that contribute to further resistance of unconstitutional laws.This story was in the local media although i hav'nt seen it anywhere else.

Here is one other article on the story i found that was written by the ultra-liberal ADL(Anti-defamation league)

http://www.adl.org/mwd/confront.asp

(Scroll a little more than half-way down the page to find it)

Mr.Moore,
Legally, members of the crips and bloods are part of the unorganized milita,but obviously the crips and bloods are no militia.They are criminals.
 
Bad apples in militias and every other group.

The problem with any group is that the name can be co-opted for a purpose for which it was never intended. A prime example of this is the supposed militia members cited by Mr. Moore. They are no more legitimate militia than I am a ballerina. They took the name and defamed it. The latter group also took the name of a religion and took actions no church I know of would condone. So while there are bad apples and imposters, the real intent of the militia as intended by the founding fathers was what happened in the situation that brought up this discussion. Resistance was given to an injustice. Being a lunatic, racist and sociopath may be legal, but it's not what the militia is for.
I am of the opinion that armed resistance is a last resort and only when you know you are in the right in the eyes of our heritage. So I can understand your indignation at the name militia if your only exposure to it has been the dregs of society playing rambo dress up and acting like fools. The fact is such people are out there, but we all do well to not let them define us or impact how we see the well meaning folks who have to share a name with them. Similar to how we view muslims. Not all muslims are terrorist sociopaths, but at times we let the few color our view of the majority.
 
I read threads like this and it brings home the idea that there is a VERY thin line between protecting your rights and paranoid fanatacism.

I absolutely agree that eminent domain has been severely misused and misapplied in the last couple of decades. It's also readily apparent that there have been NO successful defenses of eminent domain cases by militia or armed stand-offs in the entire history of the US. There have been numerous cases overturned or dropped through a combination of legal proceedings and sympathetic news reporting, but you sacrifice the sympathetic support of the community the moment you take up arms.

Fortunately, the political winds at this point are blowing against government's use of eminent domain due to it's misuses of the process, so the folks in south Florida stand a pretty good chance of overcoming their problems, but NOT if they organize themselves into a militia. They are being served, and will be better served to concentrate on peaceful and rational actions including PR drives to get the word out and flooding the courts with legal motions. Pretty soon the developers will decide it's not worth the legal costs.
 
Kinda like Timothy McVeigh.The mainstream media blasted all over the place that he was connected with the Michigan Militia.When in fact the only connection McVeigh had to the militia is that he attended a pubic meeting hosted by the Michigan Militia.This was a meeting thatpolice went to regularly as well as anyone who wanted to.Not only was the meeting public,but McVeigh was actually told to leave because of his extremist beliefs.
 
Billy Cockrell is not a member of the active Mississippi Militia.He simply called on us for intervention.
 
Billy Cockrell is not a member of the active Mississippi Militia.
Click to expand...

Since he apparently doesn't believe that the State of Mississippi exists, I can see how it would be difficult for him to belong to the militia of that State.

LawDog
 
1911 Guy presents probably the most cogent explanation of the corruption of the term militia as I've seen. Much as the terms "Violence Policy Center" or "Physicians for Handgun Safety" have been co-opted by gun banners.

The sanctity of the right to own private property is one of the hallmarks of a free society. Certainly there are rare instances where there is a compelling public interest to enact an eminent domain action, but the situation described above does not meet that standard...and though a court may declare it legal it doesn't make it right.

And, Mr. Moore.....you may dismiss my earlier post as "clownish" or that of "a 3 year old", however I still contend that a home is more than an assembly of 2x4s and sheetrock.
 
However, my understanding of militias is that they are the new hiding places of KKK and neo-nazis. Of course they deny that. I have heard that there is racism, sexism, violence and general xenophobia in these groups. I have never belonged to a militia so I might be wrong - however, their reputation preceeds them.
Click to expand...
I don't know that I agree with that, though I do believe that's a very common perception.

From what I've seen and heard, some/all of the following are components of the whole "militia movement:"
  • Back in the eighties/nineties some banded together to form militias as an attempt to maintain 2nd amentment rights -- the 2nd amendment specifically references the militia, so there you go. This kind of died down after the OKC bombing.
  • Some see problems with America and see an (eventual, unavoidable) conflict with federal troops as the way we're heading. Most of these folks who find militias have no military experience, and see the occasional FTX as a good thing. I think they mean well, but I think they're mostly kidding themselves. Some in the "movement" seem to have realized that they're mostly drawing overweight underachievers, so they've designed standards that all should aspire to.
  • There are a bunch of folks out there who want to live their lives as they see fit, and are fairly dissatisfied with what they see when they gaze across America. Generally, those of this type who congregate in militias tend to have a fairly common view of the common problems the country faces and the best way to solve those problems (religion seems to play a primary role here).
  • Then there's the traditional shootin'/drinkin' social club.
I don't think as a general rule you'll find much racism there -- most welcome all comers regardless of skin color, provided you're a "real" (Christian) American.

Now, whether these organizations have a useful purpose is another question entirely. I tend to believe that most are formed by habitual under-achievers trying to form a feifdom who pass out bad legal advice based on their reading of the constitution (and listening to talk radio) and who are under constant surveillance by feds. It's surprising how often the "general" in a band of less than 100 will be charged with something like manufacturing sten guns from parts, or building pipe bombs, or some such. Of course, this could all be manufactured, as lots of militia members claim.

For the most part I think they mean well and are (mostly) harmless.

No offense to THR's militia members, or to those who have formed or belong to groups they see as more serious. I think me description applies to 90+% of the militia-boys out there, though.
 
As for Florida,they should form militias as a last resort.There is no way the government could enforce removing even 500 armed residents from their home.If they did enforce it and kill that many people,then that would enrage the public.That is something the government is not willing to do.If the gov. is willing to do that,then i don't know what the hell America has come to.

The do not want to expose themselves as tyrannical.That would slow Riviera Beach's liberal plan for disarmament of the people.

Either it would slow it down,or government would demand disarmament right then.

The people will not accept total disarmament.The government knows this.Thus,ultimately,the gov. would have to back down.
 
judgement

Attala_County said:
Billy Cockrell is not a member of the active Mississippi Militia.He simply called on us for intervention.
Click to expand...

And you guys responded?!?!

What does that say about your judgment?

If that link provided by LawDog was the same guy, he is a lunatic.

Again, I do NOT trust a militia to represent me.

It just looks like that whole incident was a bunch of guys looking for an excuse to pick a fight and run around in the woods with guns. I would not be proud of participating in that fiasco.

Of course I could call myself GENERAL MOORE! That would make me impotant!

I changed my mind, I want to play with you guys if I get to call myself GENERAL MOORE! I could get some metals and a uniform... wow cool.
 
Norton said:
And, Mr. Moore.....you may dismiss my earlier post as "clownish" or that of "a 3 year old", however I still contend that a home is more than an assembly of 2x4s and sheetrock.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, I do own my own home and I do know what you mean.

But if it came down to me getting into a shootout with police or obeying a court order, I would obey the court order first. I might try to sue their butts off later, but I would not call in a "militia" to start a mini war over it.

That was what I meant by childish. Not the affection for your home but the declaring of war/violence against eminent domain.
 
Attala_County said:
As for Florida,they should form militias as a last resort.There is no way the government could enforce removing even 500 armed residents from their home.If they did enforce it and kill that many people,then that would enrage the public.
Click to expand...

So you have no problem with advising 500 people to go to their deaths to fight eminent domain?

I do not even know why I got upset with you... This is just pathetic.
 
Actually about half of Mississippi Militia members are either active or former military or police.Commander of my unit is a former Navy Seal.I work hard for Attala Engineering.There are no underacheivers in my unit.If you can't pass level 1 training,then all you can be is supply carrier or messenger in a time of war.

But facts are that if a revolution is ever needed to take place.We would win.It may take 15-20 yrs. max, but for the most well armed population in the world.This would be a fairly easy task.

The insurgency in Iraq is estimated to be 10,000 or so strong and seems to be winning.The current acive militia in the U.S. is much more than that.I would say about 40,000.

Not to mention that tyrannts have made the mistake in the past of thinking the military would fight its own people(maybe half would...maybe much less, maybe more)Armed with high tech weaponry.

Also when you look at history no modern military has defeated a guerrilla war 400 yrs.
 
Then again i do not believe the government would have audasity to killed 500 people.That is just beyond my belief right now,but i possibly could be wrong. This is what our founding fathers had to say about it.

No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for the defense of the state...Such are a well regulated militia, composed of the freeholders, citizen and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen. -- Richard Henry Lee

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.
-- Patrick Henry, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution
(1788)

what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from
time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take
arms...the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood
of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
-- Thomas Jefferson
 
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