Missouri Bullet Company Question

[Doc Jerry]

I just purchased some 45 ACP bullets from Missouri Bullet Company (IDP #4-XD). My past experience loading and shooting non-jacketed bullets has been frustrating, but I hear good reports about Missouri Bullet Company bullets, so thought I would give them a try, but I have some questions, hoping for a more pleasurable experience.

1. The website says the bullets are lubed, but do I still need to lube them with something like Lee Alox lube or Rooster Jacket lube, or can I just load them straight out of the box?

2. Is it OK to use a Lee factory crimp die with them, or will that effect how they seal in the barrel and cause more leading? I am partial to the factory crimp die, as it seems to resize the round, even if I use little, if any crimp.

3. Is there anyway to avoid shaving lead off when seating non-jacketed bullets? It makes the process messy and unless I spend time removing it, the rounds do not chamber well in my Gold Cup. Flaring more, chamfering brass, etc. Other options?

Thanks in advance for an help,
Jerry

 

[sexybeast]

Lets see,
#1 No you don't have to lube them.

#2 I no longer use the FCD, I now only taper crimp with lead. It may make no difference with 45 because its a straight case. I started taper crimp because of 9mm

#3 Open up the case enough! If you are shaving lead the case is not flared enough. I also use a Lyman expansion M die to open it up. AGain with .45 that may not be necessary.

Missouri bullets are good, they are even better if the package gets to you without being opened and destroyed by the machines of the United States Postal Service. My last two orders from Brad were "shared" with them. Missouri should use stronger packaging.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

1st off, Missouri Bullets is as good as it gets IMO. I used them before I started casting my own and had zero complaints. Great product and fair prices.

1. The website says the bullets are lubed, but do I still need to lube them with something like Lee Alox lube or Rooster Jacket lube, or can I just load them straight out of the box?

You do not need to lube again. Load em up as shipped.

2. Is it OK to use a Lee factory crimp die with them, or will that effect how they seal in the barrel and cause more leading? I am partial to the factory crimp die, as it seems to resize the round, even if I use little, if any crimp.

I wouldn't use the FCD with cast bullets unless absolutely necessary. If you have been, that may be the reason you have been having issues in the past. If you crimp enough to size the bullet smaller than your bore you'll get leading every time. I don't with 9mm but I have to with my .40 because my Sig's tolerances are so tight. If you don't absolutely have to, don't.

3. Is there anyway to avoid shaving lead off when seating non-jacketed bullets? It makes the process messy and unless I spend time removing it, the rounds do not chamber well in my Gold Cup. Flaring more, chamfering brass, etc. Other options?

You just need a little more bell. Flare it just enough to start the bullet and seat without shaving lead. Crimp just enough to remove said flare. I just use the seating die to apply a very small amount of crimp.

I have found .45 stuff to be very easy to load cast bullets for so I don't think you will have any issues getting it figured out.
Happy loading.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

MBC uses Thompson's Blue Angel Bullet Lube, one of the best.

Missouri bullets are good, they are even better if the package gets to you without being opened and destroyed by the machines of the United States Postal Service. My last two orders from Brad were "shared" with them. Missouri should use stronger packaging.

Brad self-insures the shipping. If you have a problem or complaint, contact Brad and he will make it right. This is not the place to whine.

 

[chiltech500]

If you crimp enough to size the bullet smaller than your bore you'll get leading every time.

I'm a newer reloader using leaded SWC or LRN (1000 45 Acp - 200-300 9mm) and don't quite understand what is meant by crimp the bullet smaller than the bore - does that mean the completed round or literally the bullet itself?

I have wondered how to check the diameter of a given round vs the bore. I don't believe I have a problem because my 45 ACP rounds are same diameter as factory FMJ, which I used as a guide.

I also don't really know how to recognize leading. I've been told little balls around the rifling. My Dan Wesson barrel has had most of the 1000 rnds of LSWC shot through it and after cleaning there are a few gatherings of material - but not necessarily in the rifling (I'm fudging description because these old eyes needed more light and a magnifying glass - which I haven't used yet).

 

[sexybeast]

Brad self-insures the shipping. If you have a problem or complaint, contact Brad and he will make it right. This is not the place to whine.

I will whine if I wish to!
I did contact Brad. I sent two emails with pictures of the boxes and I recieved no reply. I weighed the contents of the boxes that did make it undamaged and compared them to the one's burst open. I even contated him through his site to confirm I was sending the email and pictures to his correct address. I heard back nothing.
Its not a problem now. I am using a different bullet company that packages much better.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said above, no additional lube needed.

Post #2 states:

I no longer use the FCD, I now only taper crimp with lead. It may make no difference with 45 because its a straight case. I started taper crimp because of 9mm

which confuses me because the Lee FCD's which are supplied in the 45 Auto and 9mm are tapered crimp dies. I use the Lee FCD without a problem with lead bullets. Some reloaders don't like them with lead bullets. You will have to decide for yourself.

If you're shaving lead off the bullets you will need to flare the mouth a little more. Try not to add too much flare or you will probably shorten the brass lifespan. Try to add only what's needed. when you stop shaving lead stop adding flare.

Welcome to the forum...

 

[sexybeast]

Archangle wrote:

which confuses me because the Lee FCD's which are supplied in the 45 Auto and 9mm are tapered crimp dies. I use the Lee FCD without a problem with lead bullets. Some reloaders don't like them with lead bullets. You will have to decide for yourself.

With lead being a little larger in Diameter and there being a slight bulge after setting the bullet I was afraid the bottom carbide ring was swaging the bullet smaller. This was mostly a concern with 9mm and I do think my accuracy is better with only using a taper crimp only, I'm still doing some testing. I have not tested .45 enough to know yet. I will no longer be using the FCD with 40 or 9mm

 

[MuffinMaster]

I buy from MB and I do buy thier 230gr. I must say in geneal that MB is a good company to deal with. Issues do arrise from time to time with any product. They WILL correct an issue that is truely a mistake. I think they would be very forgiving and overlook, at times, the mistakes of thier customers (i.e me) . In short I would buy from them any time.

#Keep in mind I am a newbie but I'll share my experiences so far

1) The bullet is lubed but I tubble lube as well. I believe it will help reduce leading.

2)I do not use the FCD nor the M die even though I have both. I have a lot of issues with the expander plug working its way loose. In fact all things that are screwed/bolted on that die keep coming loose. I may have a defective die. I use the the FCD for only 2 things. I use range brass and bugle bust the cases that do not drop into my case check die after being sized. If I end up seating the bullet crookedly and it will not drop into the the case check die I then run it though the FCD. The FCD does squeeze down a lead bullet. This fact, I believe, has a side effect. It causes leading. I use a very lite tapper crimp of .472 - .473, just enough to drop in my case chech die.

3) I have found so far that belling the case, seating and then with another step crimp really works for me. The Lee seating/crimping die is very hard to adjust correctly, for me. I believe this is due inpart to the lenghts of ALL the shells you run must be very close in size or you will pinch alittle lead ring every so often. It works so far for me.

I experience leading with the MB 230gr. It is my fault not MB. It is also an accurate bullet out of my gun so far. To over come the leading I need to figure out the right combinations of variables such as bullet sizing, powder type, bullet depth, or maybe it is just my gun. I am looking at the H&G 68 200gr as well. There is a learning curve to all of this, but it is nice when you figure it out.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Archangle wrote:
With lead being a little larger in Diameter and there being a slight bulge after setting the bullet I was afraid the bottom carbide ring was swaging the bullet smaller. This was mostly a concern with 9mm and I do think my accuracy is better with only using a taper crimp only, I'm still doing some testing. I have not tested .45 enough to know yet. I will no longer be using the FCD with 40 or 9mm

Do you realize how very small one-one thousand of an inch is? 1/1000, that's what we are talking about, .355" and .356"...

 

[sexybeast]

Do you realize how very small one-one thousand of an inch is? 1/1000, that's what we are talking about, .355" and .356"...

Aparently it makes a difference! And what if its "squeezing" it even smaller. I just did some testing with 9mm and not using the FCD and only taper crimping has made a great difference.
If 1/1000 of an inch did not make a difference why is every cast bullet oversized,,,,,,,,,,,you get it,,,,1/1000 of an inch!!!
It makes a difference.

 

[cfullgraf]

3. Is there anyway to avoid shaving lead off when seating non-jacketed bullets? It makes the process messy and unless I spend time removing it, the rounds do not chamber well in my Gold Cup. Flaring more, chamfering brass, etc. Other options?

Thanks in advance for an help,
Jerry

With cast bullets versus jacketed you probably need to flare the case a smidge more due to the little bit larger than diameter of the case bullet.

Also, if you chamfer the inside of the case mouth, it is less likely to shave the bullet.

Exactly how much, it is a feel thing and different brands of cases with slightly different wall thickness will react a bit differently.

You should be taper crimping your 45 ACP ammunition. All the crimp die does is remove the mouth belling, no more. In fact, too much crimp will have the opposite affect and actually make the neck tension less.

The Lee 45 ACP FCD die should have a taper crimp section in it. In my opinion. the handgun FCD die is a solution looking for a problem. A standard taper crimp die should work just fine. Lee makes one as do virtually all the major manufacturers.

To add, you seater die for 45 ACP should have a taper crimp ring machined into unless it is an old die, then it may have a roll crimp machined into it, I have such a 45 ACP seater die. So, you could crimp at the same time as seating. many folks do this successfully. I do not as I prefer to crimp in a separate step but it certainly is not require to make good ammunition.

Hope this helps.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Whatever... Lee designed their FCD to fix problems, not to resize bullets and rounds that are within specs. It is only supposed to resize out of spec ammo. I have never had a problem but you many be having a problem.

 

[sexybeast]

Whatever... Lee designed their FCD to fix problems, not to resize bullets and rounds that are within specs. It is only supposed to resize out of spec ammo. I have never had a problem but you many be having a problem.
Today 05:54 PM

Archangle I use to think the same thing. I thought the FCD would clean up any bulges and make any my ammo perfect. But in retrospect I have discovered that the carbide ring which goes to the bottom of the case swages the entire case. If the "bulge" is the base of the bullet you will be "undersizing" your bullets after you set them in the case.
As of right now I don't think the FCD makes much difference with straightwalled cases, but I have discovered that the bulge the FCD is removing on 9mm is squeezing the base from .356 down to as thin as .352. I once loaded some 9mm .356 lead in 38 special. Leaded my barrel something terrible. When that gas "cuts" around the bullet real bad things can happen quickly.
Right now I'm shooting .357 125's in 9mm and I'm very satisfied with the results short term.
A fellow competition shooter casts his own .45 auto. 200gr lswc bullets cast in moulds he special ordered. They are .4525 in the H&G 68 pattern. Tight is the name of the game with lead.

 

[kitsapshooter]

How very informative, please pull out the books and videos and statrt studying. Several of you will find your habits and practices are messing up your reloading.

 

[Rule3]

The MBC IDP #4 is actually a muti purpose bullet. It is actually a 45 Colt bullet that has a slight cannelure. You can find the same bullet under the 45 Colt.

The original XD's (not the XDM's)would not feed the regular LSWC lead bullets very well. This bullet has a flat nose that punches a nice hole in paper.

Seat it just to the cannelure and crimp just enough to smooth out the brass.

I like it as I can use it in the 45 Colt revolver and my 45 ACP autos.

All their bullets are lubed, just load and shoot,

 

[Doc Jerry]

Folks - Thanks for the informative replies and information. You all are a wealth of knowledge. I have been reading post from this site for years, as they came up on google searches. I finally decided to take the plunge and join.

I am using the Lee 4 carbide die set. I have found the Lee FCD useful for taking out bulges that I have gotten loading flat bottom bullets (Nosler 185 gr hollow points). But I think I will try loading the Missouri Bullets without it.

As for shaving lead ... the last time I loaded lead bullets, I had the Lee Expanding die cranked all the way down, hoping for no lead shavings. I still got some, but it was better. I am not using a Lee shell holder, as I am using an old CH magnum press and the shell holder that fits it. It must have a slightly different height, as I had to modify some of the Lee directions to use it. I think next time I will try camfering the inside of the brass and see if that helps. Perhaps chamfering just enough to take off the sharp edge.

Thanks again for all your useful suggestions.
Jerry

 

[ljnowell]

How very informative, please pull out the books and videos and statrt studying. Several of you will find your habits and practices are messing up your reloading.

How very helpful and observant your post was! I'm sure we all look forward to taking your advice and helpful hints to our reloading benches for future use!

 

[sexybeast]

How very helpful and observant your post was! I'm sure we all look forward to taking your advice and helpful hints to our reloading benches for future use!
__________________

yeah, I noticed that too. Held my tongue this time. Too many warnings from the mod this month!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

How very informative, please pull out the books and videos and statrt studying. Several of you will find your habits and practices are messing up your reloading.

Oh, so that's what I've been doing wrong all this time. Thanks man.
And welcome to the forum. I'm sure if all of your posts are as informative and helpful as that one, you'll be a real hit around here.