Model 12

[Blkhrt13]

I have a model 12 with a split barrel. It starts at 23 inches from the breach and heads up toward the muzzle about three inches. My dad stuck a steel shot in it hunting ducks. Thankfully it didn’t hurt anyone. But now I need to do some cutting. I want to cut it back to 20 inches flat. He thinks it best to try and save as much barrel as possible. Either way if we don’t get it threaded and cut for a choke it’s a straight bore. So what say y’all ? Does two inches matter? I can’t see the velocity moving much either way. Odds are if it will stay in my closet anyway.

 

[PapaG]

Cut it to 18.5". Magnaflux what's left and if ok, enjoy your riot gun.

 

[e rex]

Or you can find another barrel and have it fit. I've seen a model 97 barrel fit to a model 12 also. I doubt you can tell much difference between 20 and 22 inches. There is an outfit at Atwood, Kansas that is highly thought of for their choke tubes, you might call them and get their advice.

Edit: Carlson's choke tubes. Atwood, Ks.

 

[Blkhrt13]

Cut it to 18.5". Magnavox what's left and if ok, enjoy your riot gun.

That’s part of why I want to go twenty. I don’t have magnaflux stuff at my house. I know how even if I’m not certified.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Depends on what you're going to hunt with it after you cut it or use it fro defense. If you still want to hunt with it, threading for a choke tube is a must. How well will it swing with a 22" barrel vs a 20" barrel? You could turn it into a slug gun for deer. In that case, you would leave it as long as possible for the better sight radius and add a ramp front sight and a ghost ring rear, or some sort of optic. Leave it without a choke and fire rifled slugs. If it's going to be a defense gun, make it as short as you can, but I thought those older Model 12s had 6-shot tubes so I think you're going to be close to 20" anyway.

On a related side note, if you keep it as a duck hunting gun, you still have the issue of steel shot, unless you buy Bismuth, or other non-steel/non-toxic shot-which is rather expensive, btw, otherwise, you just risk blowing the barrel out again. Subsequently, conversion to a defensive shotgun is most practical.

 

[Blkhrt13]

Depends on what you're going to hunt with it after you cut it or use it fro defense. If you still want to hunt with it, threading for a choke tube is a must. How well will it swing with a 22" barrel vs a 20" barrel? You could turn it into a slug gun for deer. In that case, you would leave it as long as possible for the better sight radius and add a ramp front sight and a ghost ring rear, or some sort of optic. Leave it without a choke and fire rifled slugs. If it's going to be a defense gun, make it as short as you can, but I thought those older Model 12s had 6-shot tubes so I think you're going to be close to 20" anyway.

On a related side note, if you keep it as a duck hunting gun, you still have the issue of steel shot, unless you buy Bismuth, or other non-steel/non-toxic shot-which is rather expensive, btw, otherwise, you just risk blowing the barrel out again. Subsequently, conversion to a defensive shotgun is most practical.

That’s why I just wanted to cut it to twenty inches and leave it a cylinder bore. Just a defensive gun at that point. It’s cheaper and safer that way.

 

[Riomouse911]

20 is where I would go, especially if you think it may be a safer alternative.

Stay safe.

 

[Thomasss]

I have found from past experience, that choking a gun even for deer slugs can be advantageous. AND even newer, rifled chokes will substantially improve siting and distance than having just an open bore. Of course the type of slug, of which there are many these days, will also have an effect too.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Shorter would be better than longer to get as far away from that crack as you can. As you must know if you are proficient in magnafluxing, small stress cracks resultant of the primary fracture can go quite a long ways.

 

[entropy]

Cut it to 19", have Briley put the threads in, and you have a very versatile shotgun. HD, Turkey, Deer, grouse, small game, heck even three gun competition, it will be much more useful than cutting it and leaving it Cyl. bore.

 

[Bill M.]

Did just shooting steel loads cause the damage? That is not supposed to happen. Or were other factors involved.?

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Did just shooting steel loads cause the damage? That is not supposed to happen. Or were other factors involved.?

Absolutely it will. Any shotgun made prior to the early 1990s should not be fired with steel shot. In 1991, the Feds banned lead shot for hunting. The barrels on guns made prior to that were designed to be used with lead shot, which was the standard of that era. Steel shot became the go-to non-toxic shot, but it is much harder than lead. As such, it will not deform when passing through the choke. Yet, the steel on the barrel is not hard enough to resist, so it fails. Anything from a bulged muzzle end to cracks, to a tulip muzzle can happen.

Sadly, non-steel, non-toxic shot, typically Bismuth or a couple of other materials (Fiocchi Tundra, Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles, and some version of Kent) are extremely expensive. So much so that it is farrrr cheaper to simply buy a new shotgun with a barrel made for steel and just switch to steel shot, than it is to continue to hunt with your vintage shotgun. (Which angers me a little as my vintage, pre-64 Winchesters are a joy to shoot-not to mention the sentimental connections.)

 

[Blkhrt13]

Shorter would be better than longer to get as far away from that crack as you can. As you must know if you are proficient in magnafluxing, small stress cracks resultant of the primary fracture can go quite a long ways.

That was my concern. That’s part of why I am going to go with twenty inches just to try and get past where the damage is-was.

 

[Blkhrt13]

I’m going to try and work on this over the weekend. I will see what I can do to get the barrel marked and cut. I need to at least spot it for the sight bead Installation. I’m not sure I know what I did with the drills. I know where the tap and beads are.

 

[entropy]

Absolutely it will. Any shotgun made prior to the early 1990s should not be fired with steel shot. In 1991, the Feds banned lead shot for hunting. The barrels on guns made prior to that were designed to be used with lead shot, which was the standard of that era. Steel shot became the go-to non-toxic shot, but it is much harder than lead. As such, it will not deform when passing through the choke. Yet, the steel on the barrel is not hard enough to resist, so it fails. Anything from a bulged muzzle end to cracks, to a tulip muzzle can happen.

Sadly, non-steel, non-toxic shot, typically Bismuth or a couple of other materials (Fiocchi Tundra, Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles, and some version of Kent) are extremely expensive. So much so that it is farrrr cheaper to simply buy a new shotgun with a barrel made for steel and just switch to steel shot, than it is to continue to hunt with your vintage shotgun. (Which angers me a little as my vintage, pre-64 Winchesters are a joy to shoot-not to mention the sentimental connections.)

Well, you're half right. No Full choke made prior to that (actually no fixed full choke) should have steel shot fired thought it. This said it was a standard thing to do to open the fixed full choked barrels of duck guns back when steel came out to Modified, which will fire steel loads fine through them. Many an old Model 12 had this done to their 30" Full barrel, and a lot of 870's and 1100's did also. I just got a 28" Mod. barrel for my 870, as we were shooting closer in anyway, and the 2" shorter barrel worked fine. Most full choke tubes made after steel was mandatory will be marked "lead only" or " lead or steel". Even so, it's always best to back the choke down as the shot gets bigger. Armored Farmer has posted a picture in the past of what can happen if you don't. His son had a choke pull halfway out of the thread from trying to run goose loads through too tight of a choke for them.
@Armored farmer , got that pic handy?

 

[9x56MS]

At 20” it will make a fine grouse and woodcock gun. Plus double for home defense. Nothing puts the fear of god in a burglar quite like racking a round into a pump gun chamber.

 

[mavracer]

20" definitely definitely 20

 

[tmd16556]

I’d go with 22 just because you can always take that extra 2” off, but it’s mighty hard to put it back on.

 

[Armored farmer]

Well, you're half right. No Full choke made prior to that (actually no fixed full choke) should have steel shot fired thought it. This said it was a standard thing to do to open the fixed full choked barrels of duck guns back when steel came out to Modified, which will fire steel loads fine through them. Many an old Model 12 had this done to their 30" Full barrel, and a lot of 870's and 1100's did also. I just got a 28" Mod. barrel for my 870, as we were shooting closer in anyway, and the 2" shorter barrel worked fine. Most full choke tubes made after steel was mandatory will be marked "lead only" or " lead or steel". Even so, it's always best to back the choke down as the shot gets bigger. Armored Farmer has posted a picture in the past of what can happen if you don't. His son had a choke pull halfway out of the thread from trying to run goose loads through too tight of a choke for them.
@Armored farmer , got that pic handy?

Yep.
He was lucky.....

 

[StrawHat]

At 20” it will make a fine grouse and woodcock gun. Plus double for home defense. Nothing puts the fear of god in a burglar quite like racking a round into a pump gun chamber.

And that sound gives him/her a good idea where to shoot.

Kevin

 

[lemaymiami]

In my police years all of our issued shotguns for the street had 18" barrels... and we had to check them in and out each day. When I made sergeant I was issued an almost un-used 870 with a 20" barrel, in very basic configuration with the same improved cylinder bore that all of our shotguns had... Loved that weapon and would have bought it from my agency if allowed when I retired... 20" sounds just fine to me. I'm not very educated about shotguns for hunting in the field since all of my usage was for hunting two legged critters...

Good luck with that shotgun and post up how it works out for you whatever you do with it..

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...it was a standard thing to do to open the fixed full choked barrels of duck guns back when steel came out to Modified, which will fire steel loads fine through them.

That might be true, but I've never heard of that until now. In any event, there's no way I'm shooting steel anything in my father's and grandfather's 1950s and 1930s era Winchesters. No way.

Then again, as I just put those words down, I realize that I basically never shoot them anymore, either, so it's a loss either way.

 

[9x56MS]

And that sound gives him/her a good idea where to shoot.

Kevin

Or causes them to soil themselves.

 

[tmd16556]

Steel is tricky. I’ve shot a decent amount of it through 1970s Remington barrels with no trouble. not the full choke though, that as always off limits.

Older barrels may or may not fare well. Steel was around in some places by the 70s, my go-to steel shooter is a 1980s 3” 870 got to supplement his Model 12 wen the steel shot writing was on the wall.

In my case I have an older Remington 31 (1940 I think) and Ithaca 37 (1950s). Both fixed modified chokes. Would it be safe to shoot steel, yes. Would it wear the barrel faster, probably not. Would I shoot steel in them, not unless I had to.

 

[PapaG]

Shot a lot of small steel shot through our 870s made in the early 70s while hunting doves. Found out that our full and mod chokes lost us more birds than the imp cyls. I’ve recently been chastised for saying that by a well known gun writer but my boys and I doubled our take bu going more open on choke(and we are darn good shots). Example: one of many, on a really good day, fifteen of the thirty birds we shot were hit hard enough to tumble but recovered to fly off. Another day, lost only two of twenty eight using same shells. Day one, mod choke. Day two, imp cyl. Lots more data but we are convinced our guns prefer more open for steel.
Bottom line, though, is to chime in on the danger of using steel. None of our sixties/seventies Remingtons have suffered damage from steel, sizes six to eight. All fixed choke. One choke tube on another barrel did crack but it was a cheap aftermarket tube.
I won’t put steel through my fc model 12, my 3200, or BT (74).
Lots of fact and fiction out there.