Modification of Sig P232 for safer carry

[FriedRice]

I carry my Sig P232 .380 in a belly band in deep concealment. It was brought to my attention recently that if I forget the de-cocking lever, I can have a ND into my belly as that SA trigger pull is light. I'm meeting with a gunsmith about another gun and we are going to talk about this as well. Anyone else done custom work to a DA/SA type Sig for this reason? It's my first time with a gunsmith so I do like to have a little knowledge ahead of time. I'm only 9 months into gun-land so please be overly simple, even if you think it might be insulting.

Options such as another handgun, different conceal method, etc are all on the table but I'd like to consider modifying this one first.

 

[Jim Watson]

The straightforward answer is to not "forget" the decocker.
I do not know if a P232 can be converted to DAO.
Try going around the house with an empty gun and see how often you fail to decock it.

If you are still afraid of your gun, trade it for a double action revolver.

 

[FriedRice]

Yeah, definitely don't want to forget the de-cocker, and don't intend to. However, I'm human and that de-cocker is my only safety when carrying on body. I'd like one more barrier but something that can be removed quickly when gun needs use, like DAO, heavier SA trigger pull, a 1911 style safety grip (is that even possible)? No external safety because that will be the thing I might forget under duress.

 

[rcmodel]

Forget to de-cock, forget to use a safety?
Sounds like you forget a lot of importent things!!

Seriously, I would trust my P-232 a heck of a lot further with it cocked in my pants then I would a Glock trigger.

Cocked, it still has a way long first stage pull to get to the second stage SA let-off.

If you understand the way the SIG works, you would realize that even if the hammer did somehow fall without you pulling the trigger, the firing pin lock would still be instantly engaged as the trigger snapped back forward.
It would block the firing pin before the hammer got there.
If the trigger isn't held all the way to the rear, it simply can't go off.

My openion is, any modifacation you could dream up would make the gun less safe then it already is.
Don't mess with it!

Just practice using the de-cocker until it becomes an ingrained habit you don't have to think about or remember.

And it's a very simple matter to put your thumb against the back of the hammer while holstering. If you feel it and the hammer is cocked, you "forgot" to do something!!

rc

 

[dovedescending]

If you're that forgetful of things when handling your gun, get a snubbie.

 

[Claude Clay]

the learning curve for carrying is done before the actual leaving of the home.

for the gun to be of value in a bad situation you must be the master of it. its operation must be muscle memory automatic. this takes around 3,000 repetitions of an action.

so, for the next few week while you are watching a movie ( and practicing safe gun handling) keep the gun at your side and keep picking it up and let your hand operate the de-cocker each time you pick it up and each time you put it down. if it was a 1911 style i'd be saying to practice thumb and slide lock lever.

now, each time you touch the gun you will be rendering it safe as you are touching it. no more guessing.

and dovedescending has a good idea cause you will want a snubbie eventually, get a 642 now.

 

[1KPerDay]

Ruger LCP?

 

[FriedRice]

I tend not to forget things when there's a gun involved. However after higher pressure training, I see how the mind degrades, so I wouldn't want to add another layer there. And I haven't forgotten to decock the hammer once. However, I met someone who did, and is very skilled, and had a ND with this gun. This is why I ask. My experience with snubbies so far isn't great, but I started with one too small. I'm good with this gun, just want to be super super safe. Thanks for the tips. So far no one recommends altering it?

 

[rcmodel]

No reputable gunsmith will alter the safety system on a SIG.
It is already as near foolproof as it gets.

I met someone who did, and is very skilled, and had a ND with this gun.

In otherwords, he pulled the trigger when he shouldn't have.

I know a long-time old cop who shot the plate glass window out of a restaurant with a S&W snubby revolver.
That doesn't mean the S&W revolver safety system is somehow defective.

rc

 

[FriedRice]

Yes, he did pull the trigger when he should not have. It was reflexive as it was falling out of his belly band in a crowded room. So he pulled that trigger all the way back in his reflexive grab and it wasn't in DA. Would it have been different if it was? I dunno. Would another holster make it less likely? I dunno. He spent two hours talking to me about it and he got my attention. Not sure if I'll do anything about it. I'm floating the question out there because I don't know what I don't know. Thanks for all the tips so far.

 

[1KPerDay]

FriedRice, I also recommend you don't try to get a gun do something it wasn't designed to do. If you want a DAO .380, there are a lot of options out there, and buying one of those will be cheaper and easier and more effective than having a gunsmith try to modify your 232.

However, it's your gun and your money. I'd be interested to know if it were even POSSIBLE to make a P232 DAO.

I've learned anything's possible with enough money and (a sawzall and duct-tape.)

 

[Leadbutt]

THe newer 232 compared to the older 230 model SIG states can be converted to DAO

 

[FriedRice]

Thanks for looking that up for me, Leadbutt. The reason I like the Sig P232 is that it's curves, weight and dimensions make it easier to conceal and retrieve from concealment (belly band, high abdomen). Other blockier guns poke at me and get snagged when I draw. I'm not crazy about the 380, I'd prefer at least 9 mm, but it's probably adequate. It's large enough for me to do extensive training on it with only mild repercussions to my hand. Smaller would hurt more, larger is hard to conceal. Lastly, I prefer mostly metal guns. The polymer ones seem to bite my hand at the mag or bite my trigger finger. These are the issues. This is my third carry gun. You're probably all right that it would be expensive to modify and it would probably affect my training to move to DA only. 500 rounds of DA only work is going to leave me very sore.

With those parameters in mind (and I might be talked out of them) I'm open for other gun options, in addition to suggestions of modification to my current Sig P232. I have the P230 but the trigger pull seems to lighten significantly halfway through a mag and until I get that figured out, I'm not carrying it. I'm going to a range in a week where I will likely be able to try much of what is suggested. Glocks are out as I haven't found one that doesn't bite me yet. Springfield XDM is on the table, as are Sig P225, P250. Others? Also if mods want to move this to another area of the forum, that's fine.

 

[oldbanjo]

I wouldn't let a Gunsmith touch it I'd be talking to Sig.

 

[BBBBill]

380 ammo is more expensive than 9mm. An S&W 3913/3914 is pretty darned small in a better caliber.

 

[1KPerDay]

Smaller would hurt more, larger is hard to conceal. .

I assume you have shot the LCP... I personally find it a lot more pleasant to shoot than my P230. The locking barrel makes a big difference IMO. But if you find otherwise, go with what you like of course.

Leadbutt, thanks for the info on 232 DAO conversion. Sounds like just the ticket.

 

[FriedRice]

The gunsmith nixed the whole idea of modifying the gun. He will definitely get more business from me. See thread "Kahr K9 SS 9mm thread for carry?" for continuation.

 

[J.R.W.]

Honestly, being a carry piece, how often do you anticipate manipulating the hammer/slide? I'd think in a belly band, you'd have far less to worry about in terms of lint contamination as opposed to pocket carry. Load the gun, chamber a round, decock it, and forget about it. There really should be no reason to "play" with it routine maintenance aside. I'm thinking you're looking for a solution to a problem that may not exist.

 

[FriedRice]

I anticipate manipulating the hammer/slide every time I shoot this gun, which if it's my carry, will be often. I'm not the type to just load my carry, chamber, decock and forget about it. I train on it. And plink with the others. But that's just me. IMO I should be better trained and put more rounds through my carry gun than any of my others.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes you should.

That's why everyone here thinks you are over-thinking your perceived safety need on a SIG de-cocker pistol.

Learn to use it, it's a safe already as modern design and your brain makes it.

rc

 

[FriedRice]

rcmodel, that's a good point. I do need to engrain it into my muscle memory. And I have been using your "feel for the hammer" technique as of late to make sure it's de-cocked. I really thought this was idiot proof for me until I met someone who had a different experience. With more time, I can get that de-cocking into auto-memory. However, this guy shot himself and did not know until they discovered it in his leg via x-rays hours later. He walked around a house, did all kinds of things, with a bullet in his leg and did not know. That's concerning. That makes me want to step up to a 9 mm. Also after 250 rounds, my hand took a bit of a beating. I can train with a glove but I'd rather not. In firing the Kahr K9 9 mm, the recoil was significantly less in the hand. I was a Sig loyalist, and this may be my only non-Sig gun, but I think it's the next step. Also, it conceals a bit better with how I carry. It's less likely to poke at me and require re-adjustment given it's dimensions. Hard choice, but I've got a unique set of circumstances and I needed to really think it through. The dialogue about it on this board has been helpful so I thank you for your input.

 

[rcmodel]

Hard to understand how a SIG P232 could be hurting you. Mine is as soft shooting as it gets of all the .380's I have owned over the years.

But maybe 250 rounds in one session is just too much of a good thing!
You would probably gain more shooting skill with less rounds expended if you cut range sessions to 50 or 100 rounds of concentrated training to shoot every shot well.

I, like most folks, get tired and make shooting mistakes & lean bad habits like flinching during a marathon range session like that.
It also makes my old arthritic hand sore.

rc

 

[FriedRice]

Until I shot 250 rounds at a class, I did fine with any of my Sigs. I really do enjoy this gun and find the recoil generally manageable. I keep range sessions around 50-75 and have no problem. I couldn't afford to shoot over 100 rounds in practice since I'm not a reloader and *cough cough* shoot indoors locally. However, in training, we do a lot more and I intend to continue training with my carry gun. I also have long fingers (so love Sigs) but not much meat to my hand. It's probably less able to take a beating than yours (and I have arthritis, too). Worse case scenario is I have another gun, then go back to my Sig P232. That gun isn't going anywhere. I like it.

 

[DT Guy]

A person who had an ND and then didn't realize he'd been shot is NOT someone I'd use as an example of what to do or not to do.

If you aren't comfortable with a decocker, buy another gun. But EVERY gun, even DAO revolvers with 12# trigger pulls, require enough training and practice that you can use it correctly under stress. And IMHO, the answer isn't modifying the gun, it's more training, as many have already stated.

An example would the 1911 or similar autos; could you forget to re-engage the safety before holstering? Absolutely. And that's what training and practice are for.

Larry

 

[Crabbys44]

I tend not to forget things when there's a gun involved. However after higher pressure training, I see how the mind degrades, so I wouldn't want to add another layer there. And I haven't forgotten to decock the hammer once. However, I met someone who did, and is very skilled, and had a ND with this gun. This is why I ask. My experience with snubbies so far isn't great, but I started with one too small. I'm good with this gun, just want to be super super safe. Thanks for the tips. So far no one recommends altering it?

Contact SIG.

They converted my P229 to DAO (Agency restriction). They might be able to do the same for you. It was around $50.

Good luck.