"MOLON LABE" and Greek Letters

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Python, your question is about accents.

Neither classical nor koine greek had (written) accents prior to around the 6th century CE, when they were invented (that's approximate; some diacriticals [the technical name for the set of marks including acccents and breathing marks] appeared before others, and they developed and standardized over 3 or 4 centuries). Ahadams is right that most of the manuscripts of ancient Greek documents, including early Christian documents, have them; but most of those are late copies of copies of copies (etc.); none of the earliest manuscripts do.

The style of script in your proposed tattoo is the all-capital "Uncial" manuscript style of all ancient formal and literary documents. There would have been no accents; indeed, there would not have been any separation between the words. The standard style was In Scripto Continua, just a long string of capital letters. The reader was left to sort out where words, sentences, paragraphs etc. all began and ended. No punctuation or anything. Reading was a real skill back in the day.

The quotation comes from Herodotus, doesn't it? Or is it Thucydides? Either way, it would have been, both originally and for several hundred years, the Uncial type of text I've described.

CG
 
I'm the guy that makes the hats and t-shirts.

I went with accents as that was how it was shown in a Greek encyclopedia entry on the Battle of Thermopyle sent to me by a Greek TFLer. Then I confirmed it with a Greek professor at USU.

Over the last 3 years I've heard arguments back and forth between people who are all way better educated than I am as to what is right. :) Way over my head. But I've also had native Greeks check out the hats (as have a ton of other folks I've sold them to) and they all knew what it was.

So bascially it is correct on the hats, however nobody is 100% certain on the accents.

The monument in the picture doesn't have accents, but I've also seen a close up of a plaque from Greece that had accents.
 
The tattoo idea is cool. Don't worry about what other, less tolerant people think. Of all the reasons listed, you can bet the one who would regret it most is you for not doing what you want in life. Besides the ones who judge on appearances are superficial and hypocritical. Just look at Bill Clinton, He looks like an upstanding citizen. :D

Hey Correia, where can a brotha' get one of those hats ????
I'd like a black one with a white character set, like Lend's.....
 
Carlos, right now I'm in the process of moving. When I get settled in I'll take orders for another batch. Figure mid April. I'll post details here.
 
Just look at Bill Clinton, He looks like an upstanding citizen.
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Carlos, that was in poor taste. This WAS a nice thread! Then you had to go and throw in that obscenity...

:barf:






;)
 
:( I know, I know, the HIGH ROAD ! I apologize to all the Clinton sympathizers................................:rolleyes: You missed the part where I suggested that one have confidence in one's self and not
to burden themselves with the judgemental nature of others. IIR, He was not much of a role model, maybe a Rhodes scholar, but education does not give one moral superiority.

;) ;)
 
Christopher, man, you're saying all that accent stuff I've been trying to learn didn't come up until the 6th century or thereabouts? :what: ack! :what: please shoot me an email with a cite on that so I can, uh, mumble mumble bring this up with somebody else mumble bishop mumble.

ack!

I'm also an Anglican lay minister, y'see and uh mumble...
 
E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
_
Come and take Them.
_
The reply of Leon’idas, King of Sparta, to the messengers sent by Xerxes to Thermop’ylæ. Xerxes said, “Go, and tell those madmen to deliver up their arms.†Leonidas replied, “Go, and tell Xerxes to come and take them.â€
 
Gosh darnit. I'm so sick of getting ripped off.

Just the other day some loser was pretending to be me and selling cheap rip off Molon Labe hats on some other boards. He was even using pictures of my gear.

Oh well. That is capitalism for you.
 
Correia-

I went with accents as that was how it was shown in a IGreek encyclopedia entry on the Battle of Thermopyle sent to me by a Greek TFLer. Then I confirmed it with a Greek professor at USU.

Over the last 3 years I've heard arguments back and forth between people who are all way better educated than I am as to what is right.

So bascially it is correct on the hats, however nobody is 100% certain on the accents.
Click to expand...

I've done some research off-line as well, and the accents really don't seem to belong there in any lingual sort of way. But they do look cool!

So the question becomes, to put them on the tattoo, or not?
:confused:
 
Python, it is your skin. I think you are going to have to go with your gut on this one. :)

I'm just ticked off. Looking closely at those pictures they aren't just an imitation, they are an exact rip off. The embroidery appears to have been copied directly from one of my hats.

I sent him an e-mail. I wonder if he will respond.
 
molon%20labe.jpg

I took a koine greek class (which, granted, is not classical greek) which barely went over accent marks. the reason it "barely" did is because, as mentioned before, they were not in the original manuscripts. they were, however, later added as they add pronunciation help.

since we only barely went over them, I don't know what they all mean. I know the second one (at the end of labe, on the epsilon) is a breathing mark, not an "accent" per se. basically, it says the 'e' should be pronounced as if it were done with heavy breathing, making the e' (epsilon with breathing mark) prounounced somewhere between an e (epsilon) and an h (eta)

as shown, the above would be prounounced "mah-lone lahb-heh"

and omega is quite allowed early in a word. omega is the long-O sound (like the O in 'code') and omicron is the short-O sound (like the O in 'log').
 
English speakers, naturally enough, tend to put the stresses in words where they would be if the word were English. Every language has its own rules about where the accents fall. English is particularly bizarre since it has words from so many languages. The accents in molon labe are therefore quite useful to us, whether they would have been necessary to Mr. Leonidas or not. My Greek copies of Aeschylus, Herodotus, and so on all have accents.

By the way, I have one of the hats. They are high quality and often spark conversation. They give you the chance to discuss guns in a positive way. It doesn't scare people or play to stereotypes, like a hat might that says, "My business is killing and business is good." You can also just say "It's an old Greek saying" if you don't feel like explaining it all.
 
I checked the spelling with a professor of Classical Studies at UofA. He mentioned the accent marks, but said they weren't necessary, and that it is okay to add an exclamation point, though the ancient Greeks didn't have one.
 
I like the tat. Great saying.

But if you find someone questioning the accent marks on your "Molon Labe" tat you are definitely in the wrong bar or with the wrong lady.

I studied Greek a couple of years (Jesuits) an aeon ago. I think no accents--see other posts--is the way to go. More lapidary, my man.:D
 
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