Molon Labe? Gimme a break.

[444]

"Reality check...if you're willing to vote with bullets, where were you during all of the progressive rights-abridgments? Were you down at the Legislature with your M4 as they passed the AWB way back when? Did you "vote from the rooftops" when we had to start undergoing background checks and waiting periods? If not, when were the staunchly-Molon Labe proponents being hypocritical -- then, or now?"

Reality check for you: no, I didn't do any of those things: but some people did. If you read my last post you would probably agree that at every one of those points you mention, someone reached the breaking point. They were most likely killed and reported on the news as being a nut that the government saved society from. Once again, if you think that one day every gun owner in the country is going to say they have had enough, you can forget it. But, there will be a certain number of them that have had enough with every piece of legislation. Their reaction to it doesn't have to be opening fire, they might simply by-pass the regulations, they might move away from the state or local government that oppresses them. They might become a "white separatists" (that's new media jargon for someone that moves out in the middle of no where so they can get away from everyone that is bothering them, so the federal governement immediately bothers them) but some did start shooting and died as a result. You just wern't paying attention because you thought it would be some big dramatic civil war that had a definite start time and all the players were listed in the program. I am quite sure that no one here wants things to reach a point where it comes down to us or them. We continue to takes our lumps with our victories, but if things keep going the way they have been, there will be a point where our backs are to the wall.
The point at which your back is to the wall, is a personal decision only you can make.

 

[Molon Labe]

Were you down at the Legislature with your M4 as they passed the AWB way back when? Did you "vote from the rooftops" when we had to start undergoing background checks and waiting periods? If not, when were the staunchly-Molon Labe proponents being hypocritical -- then, or now?"

A lot of people simply ignored the law after it was passed. Many people today continue to ignore the AWB. While such a "passive resistance" approach isn't very glamorous, it does take a certain amount of courage...

 

[Sam Adams]

In reality, we should all try our best to stay alive and fight for the long haul. (A martyr is useless to us; they can't fight if they're lying in a coffin!)

I like how General Patton said it: "Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

 

[sm]

"Metal and Wood"


by Dennis Bateman

http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/Metal_and_Wood.html



The following essay was originally published at www.TheFiringLine.com

It is a rare person who does not attach some sort of value or emotion to some physical object or to an event. A home becomes more than a building. A statue of the Virgin Mary, a crucifix, a flag or a song, or even a photograph can stir emotions greater than the value of the material item.

I have a piece of paper showing I served in the military until I was discharged honorably. But, oh, the memories that piece of paper conjures up. The friends, the fun times. The bad times. The times when we were bound closer to strangers than to our own families and, in frightening chaos, our lives hung by a thread.

Many of our friends died far from home. Ask us about the feeling of "American soil" upon returning to the land we loved. Ask those returning soldiers about America.

Remember the old, faintly humorous band of American Legionnaires, wearing out-dated military uniforms straining at the buttons. But, God how proudly they marched. Grinning, waving to friends and families, and always, always "The Flag!" Ask them if the flag is mere cloth, I dare you.

See the elderly lady sitting in a lawn chair watching the fourth of July parade. Three flags carefully folded some forty years ago into triangles now rest in her lap - one for each lost son. Ask her if those flags are mere cloth, I dare you.

Look at the old man quietly crying, leaning against the Iwo Jiima Memorial at Arlington Cemetery. As he turns to you, smiles with some embarrassment, and says in a choked whisper, "I was there." Ask him, "Is it just metal and clay?" Ask him. I dare you.

The Wall. My God, the Wall. See the young man lightly tracing the name of his father there inscribed. Ask him if its just rock. Ask him. I dare you.

My guns? They’re of little real value compared to my family and my home. They are toys, or tools, or both. But what those guns represent to me is greater than all of us, greater than myself, my family, indeed greater than our entire generation. What could be of such value?

The freedom of man to live within civil, self-imposed limitations rather than under restrictions placed upon him by a ruler or a ruling class.

Imagine the daring, the bravery of a few men to declare they intended to create a new country, independent of the burden of their established Rulers!

Those men we call our forefathers were brilliant men. They could have maneuvered themselves into positions of influence within the structure of the times, but they did not. They struggled to free themselves from tyranny. They wrote the Declaration of Independence. And they backed up their words and ideals with metal and wood.

They knew the dangers of such dreams and actions. They knew it was a frightening and dangerous venture into the unknown when they dared reach beyond their grasp for a vision - for an ideal. But they dared to dedicate themselves to achieve Liberty and Freedom for their children, and their children’s children, through the generations.

Imagine the dreams and yearnings of centuries finally being reduced to the written word. The Rights of "We the People!" instead of the "Powers of the Monarchy."

Our forefathers dared to create a new government - a new form of government. And they knew that any organization has, as its first and foremost goal, its continued existence. Second only to that it strives to increase its power. It plots, it devises, it maneuvers to achieve control over its environment - over its subjects.

Our Forefathers decided to make America different from any country, anywhere, at any time in the entire history of the entire world. This country, this new nation of immigrants, would be based upon the concept that people could rule themselves better than any single person or small group of persons could rule them.

Other countries have had outstanding documents with guarantees for its citizens - but the citizens have become enslaved. How, these great men pondered, can we ensure this new government will remain subject to the will of the People?

They wanted limits upon this new government. Therefore, our forefathers wrote limitations into the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And one of those Rights was that metal and wood, as the final power of the people, would secure this country for the future generations.

Metal and wood were the means by which we won our freedom.

Metal and wood were the means by which we kept our freedom.

Metal and wood may be the means by which we regain our freedom.

Metal and wood are the final power of the people. Take away the metal and wood and the people become powerless - they can only beg, they supplicate for favors.

We are unique in our ability to rule ourselves but we are letting it slip away. Today we compromise. We try to appease man’s insatiable appetite for power by throwing him bits of our freedoms. But the insatiable appetite for power can not be appeased. The freedoms we feed him only make us weaker and him stronger. We must conquer him and again ensure the "Blessings of Liberty" won for us by our forefathers.

We must be ready to use metal and wood again, for if we are ready, truly ready, we may be able to conquer the monster with words - for in its heart it is a coward. But if we continue to feed the monster our freedoms, we will become too weak to win, to weak even to fight, and we will become a conquered people. We will have sold ourselves and our future generations into servitude.

If words fail us, we will use metal and wood, we will regain what we have lost, we will achieve what we seek, we will guarantee the America of our forefathers for the future generations.

So you see, our guns are more than metal and wood. They are our heritage of freedom. They are the universally understood symbol that the government, no matter how big and strong it may be, answers to us! They are the tools we will use to prevent tyranny in the land of our forefathers and our children. So, ask me what my guns mean to me. Ask my children what our guns mean to them. Ask us. I dare you.

 

[sm]

A Declaration of Civil Disobedience

A Declaration of Civil Disobedience

Marko Kloos

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34976&highlight=civil+disobedience



I will not register my guns. If such a law is ever enacted on the federal, State or municipal level, I will choose to ignore it. I was required to leave my personal data with the gun dealer when I purchased each of my guns legally, and this data is doubtlessly on record already. Let law enforcement look it up if they choose, but I will not register my guns: not now, and not in the future. Registration of handguns, or any other firearm, will not prevent a single crime from happening. It only serves to harass the law-abiding citizen for the sole offense of owning a politically incorrect item.

I will not surrender my guns voluntarily, ever. If the possession of handguns is declared illegal by any legislative body, I will choose to ignore it. If the owners of newly or soon-to-be illegal weapons are asked to turn them in for compensation, I will not comply. Let them try to enforce a law that is not enforceable, and declare a war on guns that will be no more successful than the war on drugs that has eroded most of our civil liberties in the last two decades. If they go from door to door to ask for guns, I will deny ownership; if they break down doors to search for guns, I will do my best to make their mission difficult. Confiscation of firearms will do nothing to make society safer. It merely takes away an essential basic right from the peasantry: the right to self defense. Without the means to it, the right itself is nonexistent except on paper.

I will never again concern myself with concealed carry laws. I will carry my sidearm as I see fit, and wherever I choose, whether I am in Wyoming or New York City. I will ignore unjust laws denying me the right to determine my own fate while exempting friends and cronies of the legislature and the executive from the same laws. I will try to comply with the law whenever possible and obtain a permit whenever given the opportunity; I do not wish to be a lawbreaker if I can avoid it. But I will no longer comply with the demands of legislators who want to leave us defenseless against those who will always prey on others with the help of guns no matter what the law says.

I know that I am not alone. I am part of a growing group of citizens that are fed up with being painted as radical, violent, ignorant and bigoted. Most of us are not camouflage-wearing conspiracy theorists. We are doctors, lawyers, soldiers, carpenters, nurses, computer programmers and convenience store clerks. We are fathers, mothers, grandparents, brothers, sisters and colleagues. We are "the American people" so often quoted and invoked by politicians. We come from all walks of life, all levels of income and education, all faiths and non-faiths. We share a common anger at those who want to take our self-determination away from us, those who blame us for every senseless and over-publicized act of gun violence in this country, those who are more than willing to trade an essential liberty for the illusion of safety. We are tired of politicians who create law after law to fight actions by people who by definition do not obey laws, in order to pacify a vocal and ignorant portion of the population. We also share the belief that the responsibility for our safety is up to us, and can never be completely entrusted to an understaffed, underpaid and overworked police force that is mostly tied up in an unwinnable battle against drugs.

We do not ask for special rights, we merely ask that our right to self-defense and self-determination is respected and not undermined. We wish to be left alone, and we do not want to surrender our integrity and our means to enforce our right to life and liberty for a social experiment that has already been a massive failure in those countries who attempted it. We are citizens, not peons. We are free men and women, not serfs who exist to provide taxes to the ruling caste.

We have tried to play by rules that have turned more pointless and nonsensical by the year. We have paid the fees, filled out the forms and subjected ourselves to the background checks. We have been fingerprinted like common criminals. We have tolerated the insults and the scapegoating of some of our fellow citizens, and that of the mass media. We have, where we could, taken all the steps necessary to go armed and obey the laws at the same time. Here we draw a line in the sand. Stop harassing us, for we are not the problem. Taking our rights away from us will not solve your problems, or make us all any safer against crime. We have done what we can to work with you when you came after us year after year. We gave up our military-style sporter rifles, and society did not turn any safer. We were forced to purchase guns with crippled magazines that limited their functionality, and yet society did not turn any safer for it. Yet you come back with sure regularity, asking for more of what is ours, in return for the promise of a safer society. You pass laws because it is the only thing you can do in the face of outraged soccer moms demanding that something be done to "stop the violence'. You cater to ignorance, and you willingly chip away at the rights of a group that is perceived to have little public support--minimizing the risk of election day backlash. Everything you have done has failed to improve society, yet you return and ask for one more restriction, one more "common sense" gun law, arguing that the last round of restrictions was just not severe enough.

We are tired of it. We know that if you made all guns illegal, it would have no effect on crime and violence, but we also know that you would not turn around and return us our rights and our guns after you are proven wrong by reality.

As an individual, I will choose to disobey whenever you enact a law inconsistent with my basic right to self-defense. Try to force us into registering our guns, or giving them up altogether, just so you can garner support for your next election, and you face the responsibility for whatever happens next. Many of us will refuse to obey, and then you will have a choice between trying to enforce this law or silently ignoring those who choose to disobey it. A law that is not obeyed, and cannot be enforced, does more harm to you than it does to those you try to govern. As Albert Einstein said after the repeal of the Prohibition laws, nothing will cause more disrespect of government than the enactment of laws that cannot be enforced. And make no mistake, a general gun registration or outright ban can only be enforced by sending the police from door to door, forcefully entering those homes which refuse to cooperate. How many dead citizens are you willing to tolerate before you repent? How many police officers are you willing to sacrifice? More importantly, how much of this is the general population willing to take? The war on drugs has brought about the demise of most civil rights, a war on guns would bring society to its knees. You've declared drugs illegal, yet they are available on most every street corner in this country. What good will a ban on guns do?

Law is law, but a bad law is just that. It was the law in Germany to refuse Jews access to public air raid shelters during World War Two, and many people chose to ignore that law. I am glad they did. I value my conscience and my integrity over your seat in Congress. Therefore I declare that I will no longer obey laws that are an affront to my humanity, laws that are nothing but elitist arrogant attempts to keep arms out of the hands of the unwashed masses. Pick another group for your social experiments, like the criminals for example.

We have no intention to commit crimes of violence with our guns, and we are deeply offended by the notion that you alone can make the decision who can be trusted with a gun, and that we serfs just cannot act in a responsible fashion when given access to guns.

No registration, no confiscation. Ever. If I should ever break your laws and get caught, you can arrest me. I'd rather live in jail with the knowledge that my spirit is free, than on the outside as a tax-paying serf knowing that I only serve as a worker bee with no rights and little personal freedom. I know that I am not alone, and let's see just how many jails you can build to accomodate all those who have had enough of your failed and unjust policies.

 

[Sam Adams]

Molon Labe

A lot of people simply ignored the law after it was passed. Many people today continue to ignore the AWB. While such a "passive resistance" approach isn't very glamorous, it does take a certain amount of courage...

Without patting myself on the back too hard, I did just that with NJ's version of the AWB. In many trips to Pennsylvania gun shows, and via mail order to my job in NYC (of all places), I acquired very many magazines that could hold more than 15 rounds of ammo - after the NJ ban on mere ownership was law (and I violated no federal laws while doing so). Note that this law is no mere exercise in grandfathering - it is a true ban. Anyhow, years later while on my way out of the PRNJ I passed over the Delaware Memorial Bridge and saw the "Welcome to Delaware" sign. At that point I turned to my wife and said, "Now you won't have to bail me out of jail." She naturally gave me the bug-eyes and slack jaw that I expected, following by rather intense questioning. She was relatively new to NJ (to the US, for that matter), and didn't know a thing about the gun laws. I explained to her that NJ penalized (and still does) mere ownership of a stamped metal box with an internal spring, if such is deemed to be "too big," with a felony conviction and up to 5 years in prison. She asked me how many I had, and I merely replied, "Oh, there's about 200 years worth sitting about 2 feet in back of us." She then asked me if Texas had any laws like that, and I told her, "No, Texas is in America." It warmed the cockles of my heart to hear her say, "Good, let's stay there."

I like to tell this story not because it points out my courage (I don't think it points out anything except how pi$$ed off and stubborn I was), but because it is funny. However, I know of MANY people in NJ who did - and still do - defy the NJ ban as I once did. Yes, even in the lowly PRNJ there are heroes, people who won't become sheeple, and I have to believe that the percentage of folks in other states where gun ownership is not merely acceptable but popular who feel the same way is much higher...and therein lies the problem that the Feds have - there are too many of us and we're too well armed. They can never dominate all of us, even if they can kill some of us, kick our pregnant wives in the belly, stomp our cats and burn down our houses. In the end, we will prevail and this will be a free country - though I hope that the utter futility of trying to dominate us will become apparent, thereby causing "Them" to never try.

 

[pinblaster]

MOLON LABE !

 

[Sam Adams]

Cajuncoona

There are many that would kill to protect their possessions, but I am not one. Yet I benefit daily from those who do.

Here's Your Answer:

Metal and wood were the means by which we won our freedom.

Metal and wood were the means by which we kept our freedom.

Metal and wood may be the means by which we regain our freedom.

Metal and wood are the final power of the people. Take away the metal and wood and the people become powerless - they can only beg, they supplicate for favors.

From "Metal and Wood" by Dennis Bateman (thanks, SM, I had almost forgotten about that great essay)

 

[sendec]

All of this over a thing?

Guns have nothing to do with freedom. They may make it easier to stay free, but y'all are defending things, not a concept. You do not need a gun to be free any more than possession of one makes you free. As a matter of nonfact, once we tie our freedom to the possession of a physical item, the existentialist/Kristoffersonian in me holds that you can never truly be free.

My mind is what makes and keeps me free. The gun is a tool to ensure that, but not the only tool and not a foolproof tool.

If, in the infinitesimal possibility that all guns are outlawed, I do not know what I'd do. But there is more out there than just guns. I'll innovate and adapt.

If somehow it could be guaranteed that violence was swept from the face of the earth, would you give up your guns? I would, I am not a sportsman and have no other need for my moderate collection than putting bullets into bad people. But I dont want to have to do that.

 

[pinblaster]

Some people just don't get it .

 

[Sam Adams]

Sendec

Guns have nothing to do with freedom.

With respect, you are wrong. Guns (or, more accurately, weapons) have EVERYTHING to do with freedom. Maybe in some esoteric, philosophical sense, you're right, but we all live in the real world.

Tell those at the edge of the pit at Babi Yar in 1941, in what is now Ukraine, that "Guns have nothing to do with freedom." Oh, yeah, you can't - they're all dead, shot by rifles, machine guns and handguns in the possession of the Einsatzgruppen...weapons that they didn't have to fight back with.

Tell those in the cattle cars at Auschwitz in late 1944 that "Guns have nothing to do with freedom." Oh, yeah, they were all gassed and shorty thereafter burned into smoke and cinders - because resisting the SS men armed with submachine guns, rifles and handguns was futile, since they were all disarmed.

Tell my wife's uncle that "Guns have nothing to do with freedom." He had his entire family murdered by the Nazis, and even witnessed his father and brother being murdered - by Germans and Ukrainians armed with rifles and handguns. He had no weapon THEN, so he couldn't fight back...though he did after the war, when he and some of his fellow townsmen returned to their neighborhood to find that those who had pointed out "the Joooos" to the Nazis back in 1941 were living in their old homes. None of those informers saw the next sunrise - and THAT is what good guns are in the hands of those whom the government would oppress.

The example of the Warsaw Ghetto fighters is one of the few bright spots of resistance to tyranny in all of World War II among the civilian populace, and especially among the Jews. This motley group of starving, untrained civilians took a few dozen rusty old handguns and obsolete rifles and fought the battle-hardened SS and German Army. Yeah, they lost, but they took hundreds or more with them, and they died as men, not sheep - all because they had weapons. Would that 1 million more Jews, and a million of other oppressed minorities, done the same - the slaughter would have ended far sooner and with far less bloodshed.

You'll NEVER convince me that "Guns have nothing to do with freedom."

 

[Ivy Mike]

I have a very simple take on the subject. Molon Labe is, quite simply, the line in the sand. When a govt. says I must surrender my arms, I will tell them no. When they attempt to take them, my guns will tell them no.
The phrase is very simple.

see my signature for more details.

 

[Jack T.]

I've heard it said that there is no cause worth dying for that is not better served living for. That being said. . .

Most everybody has a "breaking point". A point at which they say, "Based on this (or these) actions, our government is no longer legitimate". For some people it is taxation, for others it is state's rights, for me it is gun control. Sure, you can look at Europe, who (for the most part) has Draconian gun laws and say "well, it's not so bad over there". I mean, it sure is better than the African continent, which is in serious turmoil.

However, without guns, are we still "The United States of America"? Is a government that completely ignores a cornerstone of its foundation the same as the original?

I've said it before (and seem to be saying it more frequently): I don't *want* to go through a revolution. I like America, I like what we stand for. But being an American brings with it duties and responsibilities.

On a slightly different note, part of the education folks were talking about earlier should include the fact that the 2nd Amendment is *not* about hunting or sporting. I'm not sure where that idea came from. . .

 

[Molon Labe]

Sam Adams: I think sendec is in agreement with us, but is just looking at it a bit more abstractly. In a way, he’s correct; freedom is a mindset. There are people who do not own guns, yet are free by virtue of their mindset and actions. And there are gun owners who are slaves. (We all know some of these guys!) But it cannot be denied the existence and "success" of the former group is dependent on environmental conditions, and hence cannot last indefinitely. There will always come a point where liberty-loving people must physically fight. And this I where the use of tools comes in to play...

 

[Molon Labe]

I don't *want* to go through a revolution. I like America, I like what we stand for. But being an American brings with it duties and responsibilities.

Very well said.

We sometimes forget that being an American requires certain duties and responsibilities. If all you want to do is make money, raise a family, live in a nice house, go to church, and save for retirement, and you have no desire to fight for liberty, then you are not an American in my book; you’re a moocher who places personal comfort and security above all else. Such a person is more than willing to take advantage of opportunities made available because other people have made sacrifices, but they're unwilling to make any sacrifices of their own. A despicable creature such as this is not worthy to be called an American.

As an American, it is my solemn duty to protect and defend life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[El Rojo]

As bad as it might sound to some, the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to defent this country against tyranny. That means exactly what cajuncoona thinks it shouldn't mean. It means if the local sheriff decides to enforce the confiscation law, I am going to have to shoot him. Any law enforcement officer or military personnel that decide to enforce such a thing are fair game. I know if I were a cop or a soldier, I would desert. Just up and leave. If my CO and the rest of my comrades wanted to take up arms and resist, then I would go along with them.

The 2nd Amendment is about deterrant. We have to remain a credible deterrant and that means telling the local sheriff that if he is given an order to come get my guns, I will resist. It is then his decision whether he wants to take that risk or not. It is his decision whether he thinks the order and law is worth dying over. It really isn't any different than things are now. Law enforcement and the military believe there are things worth dying for, that is why they do their jobs today.

And what has already been said is we don't desire this outcome. That is why we are turning back the clock and getting some of the infringements thrown upon us overturned. We are fighting the easiest way right now, with our pens and our keyboards. However, the politicians and anyone they might attempt to have assist them need to understand, we are not afraid to do what it takes to preserve liberty. This is crucial to the entire point of our right to keep and bear arms.

 

[sendec]

No one died at Dachau because they did'nt have a gun - they died because evil people with guns killed them. There are no shortage of guns in Russia, Chechnya, Iraq, Sudan, Timor, and on and on. There is a surplus of bad people. I agree in the principle of freedom absolutely, I am just not going to tie it to the possession of one or more guns. Some people seem to rest policy on guns, I do not. They are tools, means to ends, and not ends in and of themselves.

For all the atrocities you cite there were resistance fighters, and opposing armies all trying to stop the killing. I would'nt believe those people were killed because they did'nt have guns (which is the opposite of "Gun Violence -that guns are responsible for death and injury) - they were killed by a lack of warriors in the right place at the right time.

 

[mountainclmbr]

Governments have killed more of their own citizens over the last 100 years than the other way around. Most banned guns first.

Protection of the Constitution from enemies foreign or domestic has never been more important. Please vote intelligently so it does not come down to Molon Labe!

 

[Weimadog]

mountainclmbr:
Protection of the Constitution from enemies foreign or domestic has never been more important. Please vote intelligently so it does not come down to Molon Labe!

So, is it vote for the Democrat, who has an "F" rating with the NRA, or for our President, who trounced the First Amendment by signing the Campaign Finance Reform Bill?
It will be more difficult to vote "intelligently", as there will be no special interest advertising allowed 60 days before the election.
Am I supposed to preserve the Second Amendment by voting for the bozo who's destroying the First Amendment?

From Some page at OMB watch

3. Issue Advocacy Prohibitions Corporations, including nonprofits, and labor unions are banned from broadcasting messages that include a federal candidate's name or image within 60 days of a general election or 30 days of a primary, caucus or party convention. 501(c)(4) social welfare organizations and 527 political action committees can broadcast such ads if the audience is not made up primarily of residents of the state where the named candidate is running. Only donations from individuals can be used to pay for the ads. If over $10,000 is spent expenditures and donors must be disclosed to the FEC. An alternative provision provided if the 60/30 day ban is declared unconstitutional.

Voting well is a seemingly impossible task, when I look at all of my rights :banghead:

 

[2nd Amendment]

No one died at Dachau because they did'nt have a gun...

Really? So had those victims been armed a majority of them might not have lived? Had even a sizeable minority of them been armed a majority might not have lived? Had they not been disarmed from the start might they have never been IN that position? They died because they had no means to fight back, period.

 

[rick_reno]

They're not going to have to come and get the guns - the is an excellent educational program going on with the next generation that will take care of the confiscation problem. They'll turn them in when the time comes. Our enemy in this battle is persistent and patient and they're using our money to educate the next generation.

How do the "Molon Labe" folks touchtype while pounding their chests?

 

[Librarian]

[Art.] 10. [Right of Revolution.] Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.

New Hampshire Constitution

I had [distant] relatives who were 'disappeared' from the old SSRs. I will not go quietly. Taking away the means to resist "arbitrary power, and oppression" is death.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Am I supposed to preserve the Second Amendment by voting for the bozo who's destroying the First Amendment?

Weimadog-you're confused-the President does not make law-that would be the Congress

 

[hillbilly]

Again, a lot of folks would do well to do a lot more historical reading about the American Revolution.

It wasn't someting that just sort of happened one day.

There was a definite lead-up and escalation with event piling upon event over a long time.

When the militia formed up to resist redcoats who were marching to Lexington and Concord, they just didn't wake up that morning and say to one another..."Hey, I'm bored. You wanna go like shoot up some British soliders or something?"

They had been pushed to the breaking point after years of oppression. The Boston Massacre had happened five years in the past by that time.....

Even after the first shooting skirmishes of April 19, 1775, it took more than a year later for that document called the Delcaration of Independence to get written and signed.....more than a year after actual hot, shooting combat had kicked off.

We are not at that breaking point yet.

As someone else has pointed out, we are beginning to win some...the AWB sunsets in less than a month, more and more states are getting CCW laws, more and more young people are getting into shooting (see Tennessee's Scholastic Trap program, for example).

If anything the pendulum is beginning to swing away from the the breaking point. We are, in my estimation, inching farther and farther away from "throw down" time.

Of course, leave it to a bunch of pessimist gunnies on an Internet board to be unable to see our side's victories.

Perhaps the best quote I ever read about how to tell if it is "throw down" time or not went something like this.

"The next time you think it's time to start the next American revolution, run out on your front porch with your gun. If you can't see any neighbors who've also run out on their front porches with their guns, then it's not time yet. "

Again, go read American history.

The colonists knew when it had come time, because it was way, way, way past time, and they were pushed until they had no other recourse but to form up against the redcoats coming to confiscate their stores of arms, powder, and ball.

And I really, really believe that people who actually believe that the frog will be slowly boiled, or that we will lose chip by chip by chip, inch by inch, and that the evil forces will never have to show their hand, but gradually wear us down over years and years and years have not read enough history.

That's not how things happen. Events do pile up for a while, but then there is action that happens rapidly.

That's how the American Revolution began. That's how the American Civil War started. That's how the Nazi's came into power in Germany, that's how huge, important historical things happen.....That's how England and Australia lost their guns......There were specific, definite moments when specific, definite, explicit, overt laws were passed calling for confiscation in both England and Australia.

Events do pile up over a few years, but there is always a period of overt, often times violent action that does happen. Let's do what we can to not get there.

But if we ever do get there.........................

hillbilly

 

[goalie]

I hope people are willing to fight as hard before the "revolution" as they are stating they will after it starts. As the saying goes, 99% of the time, violence is the last resort of the incompetent. Let's be competent and fight the good fight, not with violence, but with the pen, computer and fax machine. It is not time yet to embrace violence as a means to an end, and hopefully it won't be in my lifetime.