Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Monkey County MD: U.S. Marshal Involved In Deadly Shooting

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Harry Tuttle, Oct 28, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,093
    Montgomery County police are investigating a shooting involving an off-duty deputy U.S. Marshal late Thursday night.

    A police spokesman says the deputy marshal was the shooter, and the person who was shot has died. The circumstances are still unclear.

    The shooting happened at the Mid-Pike Plaza in the 11-thousand-800 block of Rockville Pike, between Old Georgetown and Montrose Roads.

    http://wusa9news.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=34425

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    http://www.nbc4.com/news/3871432/detail.html

    channel 4 had video of a red "ricer" pointing into the front of the AC Moore store

    witnesses reported the traffic altercation moved from 355 to the plaza and the red car tried to run over the armed marshall

    the marshall had his family with him in his car
     
  2. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    3,454
    Location:
    Terra
    Be sure to update when there are ANY facts to consider.
     
  3. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,093
  4. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,093
    U.S. Deputy Kills Driver In Dispute, Police Say
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8240-2004Oct29.html

    By Allan Lengel and Nicole Fuller
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Friday, October 29, 2004; Page B01


    A traffic dispute between two motorists on Rockville Pike turned deadly last night when one driver, an off-duty deputy U.S. marshal, fatally shot the other in the parking lot of a busy shopping center, police said.

    The federal law enforcement officer, who was driving with his family in a sport-utility vehicle, exchanged words about 8:30 p.m. with a young man driving alone in a red Chevrolet Camaro with New Jersey tags, said Capt. John Fitzgerald, a Montgomery County police spokesman.

    The two drivers pulled into the Mid-Pike Plaza, where they got into a fistfight, Fitzgerald said.

    "Preliminary information is that the deputy marshal tried to defuse and disengage, to calm it down and settle it, and wanted to get the local police involved," Fitzgerald said.

    He said the young man got back into his car and drove toward or near the off-duty officer, who then opened fire, shooting multiple times. Officers found nine shell casings at the scene. The young man was taken to Suburban Hospital, where he was pronounced dead a short time later.

    Fitzgerald could not confirm reports that the dispute stemmed from a fender bender.

    A witness at the scene offered a different account of the incident at the Rockville shopping center where some had gone shopping for Halloween.

    Eugenia Hull of Silver Spring said she and her sons, ages 12 and 15, were walking through the parking lot of the center, in the 11800 block of Rockville Pike, when they came upon the men having a dispute.

    She said that the off-duty deputy stood in front of the Camaro with his gun drawn and that he ordered the young man out of the car.

    She said the deputy marshal shouted, "Get out of the car, or I'm going to shoot you again." He also said, "that's all the ID you're going to see," she added.

    The deputy then threatened to shoot if the young man moved his car, Hull said.

    "Then I watched the Camaro move around" the deputy, she said, and "I heard pop, pop, pop." She said the car jumped the sidewalk and crashed into the building.

    "I feel it's so wrong for him to shoot this kid," she said. "I can't believe he shot him. I heard people say they had an altercation. How does that give him the right to shoot him?"

    Fitzgerald said the incident is under investigation.

    Attempts to get comment from the U.S. Marshals Service were unsuccessful. The deputy was treated at a hospital for minor injuries, officials said.

    The names of the officer and the other driver were not immediately released.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8240-2004Oct29.html
     
  5. Kharn

    Kharn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,999
    Location:
    Maryland
    WWDC 101.1 was talking about it on my drive in this morning.
    A listener called in and said he passed by only minutes after the shooting.

    There was something odd about the situation, according to him:
    The bullet holes in the Camero were in the back window, the front window was intact.

    Kharn
     
  6. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,572
    Location:
    Essex Co, MA
    Wow.

    There are some seriously conlicting reports on this one.

    Depending on which version is true (in reality it's probably somewhere in the middle), this is either a good shoot, or murder.
     
  7. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,093
    we have had a fair number of pretend police officers pulling people over in the DC area in the last year...
     
  8. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,291
    Location:
    Arlington, VA

    Unless this happened under some limited circumstance where a US Marshall would have authority to apprehend a suspect on a Federal Warrent, where's the authority for this Officer to draw his pistol, particularly in Montgomery County Maryland.

    I'd like to see the Federal Marshall try some murderously arrogant crap like this here in Va where he could expect return fire.
     
  9. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,093
    Road Rage Victim Was Shot From Behind
    U.S. Deputy Argued With Driver Before Rockville Killing

    By Fredrick Kunkle and Elizabeth Williamson
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Saturday, October 30, 2004; Page A01

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10479-2004Oct29.html

    An off-duty deputy U.S. marshal embroiled in an apparent road rage confrontation along Rockville Pike on Thursday night fired repeatedly into the rear window of his adversary's car, killing the man as he sat behind the wheel, according to police and witnesses.


    Numerous witnesses to the death of Ryan T. Stowers, 20, at the Mid-Pike Plaza in Rockville shortly before 8:30 p.m. were being interviewed by Montgomery County police yesterday. Authorities said no decision had been made on whether charges would be filed against Arthur L. Lloyd, 53, a 28-year veteran of the U.S. Marshals Service assigned to U.S. District Court in Washington.


    "The rear window was shattered out," said Capt. John Fitzgerald, a police spokesman, who said investigators had begun to talk with at least 40 witnesses. "With that many witnesses, there ought to be a very clear picture of what went down."


    Although Fitzgerald said Stowers may have driven toward the federal agent in the plaza parking lot, three people who said they witnessed the shooting told The Washington Post that Lloyd was standing with his gun drawn and opened fire after Stowers drove past him.


    David Sacks, a spokesman for the U.S. Marshals Service, said the federal agency will decide Monday whether Lloyd, who was not at work yesterday, would be placed on leave during the investigation by Montgomery police.


    "We will wait with everyone else for the facts of the case to become known," Sacks said. "Regarding what happened, we cannot comment until the investigation is complete."


    Lloyd could not be located to comment.


    Stowers, of Redding, Calif., enlisted in the Navy and had moved to the area on Navy business. A Navy spokesman yesterday would not provide any information about him.


    The confrontation began in the thick evening traffic on Rockville Pike, a four-lane artery known for its routine congestion, and played out in the large, well-lighted Mid-Pike Plaza parking lot, about six miles north of the District line.


    The following account of the incident was drawn from preliminary police reports, law enforcement sources and interviews with witnesses.


    The altercation was sparked by a traffic incident on Rockville Pike and continued after Stowers and Lloyd turned into the shopping center lot. It is unclear whether the vehicles collided or the two drivers merely had a traffic argument.


    Stowers pulled his red Chevrolet Camaro into the lot, not far from the A.C. Moore craft store, behind the dark-colored sport-utility vehicle that Lloyd was driving, with his wife and several children as passengers.


    A shouting match turned into a fistfight, and Lloyd suffered a broken thumb, according to one source familiar with the investigation who declined to be identified because the investigation is not complete.


    Cindy Nachman-Senders of Potomac said she heard shouting in the crowded parking lot as she strapped her 5-year-old son into his booster seat. She turned to see two men in a confrontation beside their stopped vehicles.


    She said Stowers got into his car and was on his cell phone. She said Lloyd started yelling: "Give me the cell phone! I'm going to call 911!"


    A witness who said he was driving in the opposite direction in his Toyota Corolla at that point said he saw a man who was wearing street clothes holding a semiautomatic handgun and a badge standing by the Camaro's right front fender. The driver's window was down, he said.


    "I noticed that the officer was standing in front of the Camaro, pointing his gun and saying, 'Get out of the car, or I'm going to shoot you!' He was yelling it very loudly," said the Toyota driver. He spoke on the condition that his name not be used because he was afraid of getting in trouble with the police. He said the man with the gun "just kept yelling. He was saying, 'You just hit a federal officer. Watch what's going to happen to you in the morning if you leave.' "


    Stowers refused to get out of the car, the Toyota driver said. "The young man in the car was yelling: 'I need a picture ID. Show me a picture ID. I don't believe you,' " he said.


    Another person who said she witnessed the incident, Eugenia Hull of Silver Spring, also said she heard Lloyd order Stowers to "get out of the car." She said Lloyd responded to the request for additional identification by saying, "That's all the ID you're going to get."


    Witnesses agree that Stowers attempted to drive away, although there is not agreement on whether he moved in reverse or tried to swerve around Lloyd.


    Fitzgerald, the police spokesman, said preliminary interviews indicated that Stowers "drove away in the direction of the deputy marshal . . . but we'll accept any fact pattern that changes this." He said investigators "would have to determine where [Lloyd] was and how far away from the car he was" when the shots were fired.


    As Nachman-Senders saw it, Stowers reversed the Camaro, gunned the engine and then went around the SUV, not at it. "He was trying to leave the scene, not hit the officer," she said.


    Hull described Stowers as trying to "move around" Lloyd when she heard the shots.


    The Toyota driver said he had just eased his own car by the confrontation when the Camaro backed up and then lurched forward. He said he was about eight feet away when he heard the first of three shots, and he said that Lloyd fired into the Camaro from the rear.


    "He shot the back of the car," the driver said. "He shot the guy in the back, pretty much."


    Nachman-Senders said she turned back to Lloyd, who stood with the gun at his side. Then she heard a loud crash. She turned toward the noise and saw that the Camaro had hit a wall.


    "I'm just in shock and disbelief. I can't believe there's a kid who was here one minute and then not the next," she said. "I can't believe that an argument could escalate this way so quickly. . . . How responsible was it for him to shoot like that in the middle of a busy parking lot?"
     
  10. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,221
    Location:
    MD
    Great, there's Maryland's first murder with an "assault weapon"




    Where's Quinter and Garagiola when we need them?
     
  11. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,938
    Location:
    The Copper Country, Michigan
    Yep, this sounds like a no-good shoot. It sounds like the threat had already stopped when he shot.
     
  12. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    Northern VA / Burkeville, VA
    Sounds like he brought a gun to a fist-fight. :scrutiny:

    There have been several cases of "pretend" cops in the area in the past couple of months.

    4 rounds through the back window doesn't sound like "I was in fear for my life" to me.
     
  13. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Furious Styles said:

    I concur. Anybody but a Fed or off duty LEO would likely be arrested and incarcerated until they posted bail.

    From the face of it, looks like a bad shoot.
     
  14. nico

    nico Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,212
    Location:
    Baltimore/Laurel, MD
    not only that, but the cops wouldn't be defending the marshal ("he tried to diffuse the situation" despite several witnesses saying otherwise) and they wouldn't be debating whether or not to charge the guy, they'd be debating which charges to file, regardless of the outcome of the investigation.
    But, in Montgomery County, is anyone really surprised by the fact that they're circling the wagons?
     
  15. Yooper

    Yooper Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    570
    Location:
    U.P. Michigan
    I agree, based upon the information provided, it doesn't look good.

    The only possible explanation I can see is attempted homicide with a motor vehicle before the parking lot incident, and the reasonable belief that it would continue. But how do you then explain the fistfight?
     
  16. tulsamal

    tulsamal Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    Vinita, OK
    That's exactly what I was thinking as I read about him firing multiple shots into a vehicle that was moving away from him.

    Every group of LEO's has a few guys with a power complex and a gun. This guy sounds like he's got a bad temper to go with it.

    Gregg
     
  17. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    The People's Republik of **********
    I am in no way one of the cop bashers that lurk about here, but in this case, this officer should be in prison. Why is a fender bender worth a young man's life? This officer should have known to de-escalate the situation and just let the kid go. If there was no contact between the vehicles (we don't know right now), then there is no reason to stop, especially with your family there. Instead he killed him in what sounds like a personal rage. I sure hope the DA in that county does the right thing. What a waste of a career and a life. And to do this all in front of your family. This is sickening.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2004
  18. Agent Schmuckatelli

    Agent Schmuckatelli Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    I exist only in the vapornet of the ATF imaginatio
    From The Desk of Agent Schmuckatelli, ATF...

    He'll get away with it. We 'feds', as you call us, always do.
    We need guys like him: hot-headed fighters that will murder given the chance. They obey certain orders others may not. Maybe he'll get a desk job for awhile then a transfer to keep him low-profile until he is needed again.
    Reasonable men with even tempers and a background in constitutional law and negotiating skills are passe and wont be very useful in the near future.
    Expect more of this behavior and subsequent administrative cover-ups in times to come.
    Regards,
    S-
     
  19. saddlebum

    saddlebum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    432
    Location:
    oklahoma
    from the info i saw on the news the fed was behind the car when it came at him in reverse. ( his story) that could explain shooting in the back,but i don't see how this could have escalated in to what happen if proper procedures had been followed by the leo.
     
  20. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    Northern VA / Burkeville, VA
    Interesting how, if going in reverse, the car ended up hitting the building nose- first. :scrutiny:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. nico

    nico Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,212
    Location:
    Baltimore/Laurel, MD
    maybe the driver shifted into first with his last ounce of strength:scrutiny:
     
  22. carebear

    carebear Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,373
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Or, like here in the really, real world, there'll be 40 different, individual, murky pictures of what went down. From which the investigators will have to try to extract the truth.

    And the conflicting reports will of course remain to be given credence by those various 'others' with dull axes and time on their hands.


    Long live the internet! Huzzah! :rolleyes:
     
  23. carebear

    carebear Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,373
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Furious,

    I was just refering to my experience/knowledge of the worth of "eye witness" testimony when seeking the actual, abstract facts in contrast to how it is perceived by the general public.

    People's perceptions do wacky things of which they are often not aware.

    As for me? My axes are just fine as far as this case is concerned. :D

    Let's all hope the truth comes out.
     
  24. Shield529

    Shield529 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Arkansas
    This looks bad, oh so very bad.
    With his family right there to.
    I think 15-20 years sounds just about right.
     
  25. Sergeant Bob

    Sergeant Bob Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    The Swamps of Goldwater, MI
    So, Fitzgerald says all of the above, then comes off with this?
    I'd say you've already commented plenty there Chief, and all of it in favor of the deputy marshall's case.

    Just planting the seed. Disgusting.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page