More bolts falling off of Remington 700's

[BHP9]

I was speaking to a stranger at our shooting range yesterday and we were discussing rifles. I mentioned the fact that I had read on the net about a hunter in Africa being killed by an elephant and his rifle, which was a Remington 700, was found laying near by with the bolt broken off. Speculation running both pro and con toward the "Big Green".

Well sir, the old man smiled and said, "Mr. I want to show you something that will eraise all doubts as to what really happened to that poor devil.

Well Gents he pulled out not ONE but FIVE Remington bolts that had their handles broken off. He attributed this to faulty soldiering of the bolt handles which he claimed was done by machine not by hand.

Well, says I, is this simply a problem of quality control or a combination of that and also one of poor design. He smiled and said only, "Did you ever see a quality weapon like say, a solid forged Mauser 98 bolt fall off"?

End of conversation, End of report.

 

[BigG]

What was he doing with five broken bolts in his range bag?

I would agree with the idea that it looks like the Rem guns have the same quality control now as the American auto manufacturers had around 1975. They are looking for any and every way to cheapen the designs, it seems to me, even at the risk of endangering their users. I would not want to pass down a lot of these current weapons to my heirs.

 

[Art Eatman]

BigG, some folks carry stuff like that around as conversation starters.

The sad thing about all this is that we have no info about the dates of manufacture of the "baddies". Could have been a short-term problem during a production run, for instance. This puts a cloud over thousands of rifles with no QC problems.

"Soldering": Silver solder? Normally, that's a pretty secure process.

Overall, though, I'd rather see some parts and pieces made as near to unbreakable as physically possible. "Do it right, or take up a new line of work."

Art

 

[BHP9]

What was he doing with five broken bolts in his range bag?

Good queastion and it was one that I asked him about. It turns out he was a gunsmith and also a had a gun shop. He has quit selling Remingtons except only on special order. Right now he is pushing Savage 110's and he kept the Remington bolts to steer customers toward the Savage line of products. He said he had other problems with Remingtons and the headaches were not worth the all the trouble of stocking them.

I tend to agree with Arts comments. I do know some people recently that did buy Reminton Varmint rifles and so far their bolt handles have not fallen off. I shot a synthetic stocked heavy barrel 22-250 with a new trigger spring kit installed a week ago and easily put 5 shots in 1/2 inch at 100 yards. This is one reason why Remingtons are so popular.

 

[Quartus]

First time I've heard of this, but this thought comes to mind:


A varminter is not usally in danger of his life. An elephant or Cape Buff or lion hunter very well may be. So an adrenaline charged yank on a bolt handle will stress it just a tad bit more than a varminter reloading for a next shot. Which is usually not done for a quick follow up, just by the nature of varminting. I know, a running coyote would require that. But still, there's not the same adrenaline energy behind it.


So a charging elephant just might be a bad way to find out that silver solder is great for sights, but not for bolt handles!


To each his own, but I sure wouldn't trust my life to it!

 

[762x51]

After seeing this now I feel even better about having Badger Ordnance install one of their knobs on my 700P.

 

[BHP9]

To each his own, but I sure wouldn't trust my life to it!

Here, Here, Quartus , as the English say. I share your views.

By the way ground hogs can be dangerous. A fellow nimrod who's name I will not mention for obvious reasons once cut loose on a ground hog and missed 5 times at close range. The ground hog actually came after the the shooter who hot fotted it to my automobile. I was sitting behind the wheel at the time preocuppied with volumes of hysterical laughter. When the shooter got to my automobile I locked the doors so he could not get in and in desperation he leaped up on the hood of the car to escape the wrath of said gound hog. Feeling some empathy for the marooned shooter I then drove off to escape the enraged ground hog with the shooter clinging for dear life on the hood of my car.

He was using a Remington 700 of ancient vintage and the bolt handle did hold but next time we visit that area I told the fellow shooter to play it safe and use another type of weapon.

 

[WYO]

My 4WD pickup is more prone to rollover accidents than a passenger car, but I still drive it. Some people say my Beretta slide is going to cream me in the face, or the locking block will break, when some crazed crackhead attacks me, but I still carry it. Some people say my wife’s Glock will blow up in her hands, but she still carries it. Now I am told that my bolt handle will break off on my 700. I guess I’ll make the first shot count and keep carrying it, because I like it for a number of reasons.

We can't guard against every possibility. All we can do is make informed decisions and perform inspections for signs of failure. If something rises to the level of a recall, I'll send it in.

 

[Nero Steptoe]

Yeah, it takes a real man to "hunt" an elephant. IF the story about the Remmy 700 and the elephant hunter is true, (which I doubt) the guy got his just rewards.

 

[Quartus]

BHP9, you just got nominated for the funniest story on THR!


Uh, if I ever go shooting with you, I'll remember how you treat your friends!




Friend of mine had filled his tags, so he was shooting prairie dogs out in Wyoming. Had a comfy spot on a hillside overlooking a dog town about 100 yards off, and was popping them off with a Smith 29 in 8 3/8 .44 mag. He had his back against a tree, and was using his knees for a rest. During a lull, he noticed one pop up between his feet.

Just in line with his muzzle.

So he fired.


The prairie dog counter attacked!

.
.
.
.

By splattering all over his boots!

 

[Gewehr98]

SO, just like BHP9, this guy with all the broken bolts had an agenda...

Right now he is pushing Savage 110's and he kept the Remington bolts to steer customers toward the Savage line of products.

(having myself witnessed a Savage bolt head retaining pin shear at the wrong moment...)

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Remington Agenda?

Hello, having been around guns for far too many years I will believe that most any gun can break But-
I've seen exactly two Remington extractors fail and three Savage roll pinned bolt heads break and zero factory bolt handle failures.
Really, to have a local yokel in Bohunk City USA to claim that HE has had five in his lttle corner of the world break!!??
Nope, sorry folks, since the advent of the net we should have heard abot this the same as with the Glock Ka-Booms complete with digital images.
Somebody has an agenda,
Best!

 

[Steve Smith]

Bottom line

Is that all mechanical devices can fail. They are designed and built by humans, just like you and I. Monday hangovers and Friday night dates happen. All of this is well beyond your control and knowledge. Perhaps the best method regarding dangerous game is still the tried and true double rifle, with two independent actions in one gun. But even that can fail.

The final answer may just be to inspect your equipment as carefully as you can before you engage, say a prayer, write a will, and file your front sight down, just in case.

 

[Wildalaska]

Here in Alaska, where rifles are routinely trashed, I can assure you that the Remington service center has not seen any problems with bolt handles falling off...

Thats not to say that it has not occured...everything can be broken...everything...

 

[BHP9]

SO, just like BHP9, this guy with all the broken bolts had an agenda...

Agenda's come from real life experiences Geweher and although I regard the Remington 700 as a great play rifle and a good value for the money I would never use it in any serious situation. I have personally seen it fail far too many times. Broken extractors, failures to feed, live rounds that pop out of magazines. A tinny stamped sheet metal trigger that proved a failure in Viet Nam and even on the pristine grassy boulevards of your local shooting range. The first thing that I recommend is replacing the trigger with a good aftermarket job. I just feel safer getting rid of the thing as soon as possible. I have seen far to many Remingtons fire when set too to light a pull, far more than with other rifles.

If you want low price and a super accurate gun this gun is for you and this is why it has alway been so popular, certainly not because of its reliabilty under harsh conditions or its safety or workmanship or quality of materiels used in its construction or its gas escape system.

 

[RTownsend]

762X51 I think the Badger knob is just a knob that is screwed onto the factory bolt handle after it is cut off and threaded. The weak spot is where the bolt handle joins the bolt body. To beef up the Remington bolt to avoid this problem it should be sent to Jeff Hicks. I don't have personal experience with him but he is well respected among many people on another site I visit.

I've known of one handle to break off of a Remington. It was a long 90+ F. day on the range during a rifle class. The guy had been shooting really hot ammo in really hot weather. He justified it by saying it was loaded for the rifle by the gunsmith that built the rifle. He was blowing primers and having to jerk the bolt back on most rounds. It finally locked up hard and he preceded to try to hammer the bolt back with a piece of wood. He later broke the bolt off then carried it back to the gunsmith.

I think the rifle did good to hold together as well as it did that day. Major abuse from the operator.

 

[Quartus]

I haven't looked at how the bolt handle is attached on a 700 (sold mine many years ago) but I DO know that silver solder is not a good choice for any joint that has shear forces applied to it.

 

[Wildalaska]

I would never use it in any serious situation. I have personally seen it fail far too many times. Broken extractors, failures to feed, live rounds that pop out of magazines. A tinny stamped sheet metal trigger that proved a failure in Viet Nam and even on the pristine grassy boulevards of your local shooting range. The first thing that I recommend is replacing the trigger with a good aftermarket job. I just feel safer getting rid of the thing as soon as possible. I have seen far to many Remingtons fire when set too to light a pull, far more than with other rifles.

Cmon, with all due respect who are you kidding? You complain that a rifle slam fires when the trigger is set too light? I have seen HUNDREDS of Remingtons with PROPERLY done trigger jobs with no proble,m...is it the gun or the gunsmith>?

I personally do not like the extractors..neverthelss, they are in fact reliable...I have seen "village guns" that were so abused that they were literally falling apart and the extractors still worked. In fact, I ve seen one held together with duct tape that still functioned and shot accurately enough considering the bore was like a rusty pipe.

Enlighten me please as to your personal experiences....

If you want low price and a super accurate gun this gun is for you and this is why it has alway been so popular, certainly not because of its reliabilty under harsh conditions or its safety or workmanship or quality of materiels used in its construction or its gas escape system.

Tell that to the villagers in Alaska who are still using their daddy's blue Remington 700s (well they used to be blue) in 243 to shoot grizzly bears...


WildilikeSakosAlaska

 

[Gewehr98]

I'll second WIldalaska's comments.

If you want low price and a super accurate gun this gun is for you and this is why it has alway been so popular, certainly not because of its reliabilty under harsh conditions or its safety or workmanship or quality of materiels used in its construction or its gas escape system.

Yup, that's why the U.S. military snipers are running Sako's, Howa's, Tikka's, and CZ Mauser clones. Oops, those M24's and M40's are Remington 700 variants? How DARE they?! Don't they know they're gonna get killed when their bolt handles break off?

I'd be more worried about getting caught between a Ford Pinto and an Audi 5000...

 

[Badger Arms]

I'll raise the BS flag. Sounds like a bag of crap to me. I have, however, seen the bolt handle on a Remington 788 broke off.

 

[762x51]

RTownsend:

Thanks. I thought they were talking about where the knob itself meets the rest of the handle. Oh well....wither way I'm really not worried.

 

[MarineTech]

Sorry, but I have to agree that this is seriously starting to sound like BS.

Let's look at a few things here.

1) I'm not really going to touch on somebody carrying 5 broken bolts around just to educate everyone he meets on Remington. I find this questionable, but I've met stranger people in my life.

2) The story about the elephant hunter. I've checked and the largest caliber that Remington offers in the 700 is .375 Remington Ultra Mag. While quite a stout cartridge, this is not an elephant cartridge by any means. Why would it be used to hunt an elephant? Doubtful.

3) Also in the story about the hunter, it states that the hunter was killed and the rifle was found nearby. Where was his guide/PH? A major part of their job is to protect the hunter in case something goes wrong. So, where was he? Again this causes doubt.

4) If this story about the hunter was indeed true, and the hunter was found after the attack, how do we know that the bolt handle seperated prior to the attack? I would be more inclined to believe that the bolt handle seperated during the period where the elephant was busy pounding this guy and his rifle into their component atoms.

I'm sorry, but this just dosen't add up. Compound that with the fact that Remington has always been pretty up-front about recalling defective rifles in the past (turning off safety fires rifle). I'm just not convinced on this one.

 

[BusMaster007]

Remington does offer large caliber rifles in their Custom Shop listing:

http://www.remington.com/firearms/custom/fi_700abg.htm

http://www.remington.com/firearms/custom/700SKSST.htm

One would surmise that they have a 'custom way' to attach the bolt handles here, uh, so they don't get ripped off during a charge by man-eating beasts...

 

[BARRY]

Unless mfg methods have changed,Remington used to use copper berillium washers to weld the bolt handle to the bolt body.This was the strongest way to attach them at the time. I have no idea if they still use this method or not, but I know they made many rifles with bolt handles attached this way and no reports of handles falling off. I'm guessing methods have changed. I read in The Varmint Hunter of a custom or 40X rifle that had this happen the first time they shot it!

 

[BHP9]

Yup, that's why the U.S. military snipers are running Sako's, Howa's, Tikka's, and CZ Mauser clones. Oops, those M24's and M40's are Remington 700 variants? How DARE they?! Don't they know they're gonna get killed when their bolt handles break off

I would suggest that anyone who is really interested in how good a gun the Rem.700 is should read the various books by Peter Senich. He details the developement and use of military sniper rifles which includes the history of the Rem.700 in Viet-Nam.

I think the big myth that most people seem to be mesmerized by is two fold.

1. They believe that military test trials prove the worth of weapon to be used in combat.

2. They believe the militaries always adopt the best weapons availabe.

Facts are nothing could be farther from the truth. Military test trials have often proved to be nothing more than dog and pony shows and are often even altered to get their favorite weapons passed. A case in point was alowing the water to drain out of the barrel of the M16 to allow it to pass the blow up tests in the U.S. military test trials.

Many small arms have been adopted down through the years by the various militaries only to prove less than adequate for the intended use. Examples are many but include the German Luger, the M16, the Beretta 92, the Japanese Nambu, the Rem.700 etc. etc.