More press on DHS Ammo

[Oklacoyotekiller]

Washington times now reporting that dhs has ammo shortage and cutting back border patrols ammo. if they have an ammo shortage, shouldnt border patrol be at top of list to get theirs, or is this just a game to shut everyone up? Still say they have 240some million stockpiled.

 

[alsaqr]

US congressman Lynn Westmoralnd of GA (R) is happy with the way DHS orders ammunition.

In this case, DHS entered into a contract that allows them to purchase up to 450 million rounds of 40 caliber ammunition over the next five years. They cannot exceed 450 million rounds and are not required to purchase 450 million rounds. Basically, they have a tab with a manufacturer to order more rounds as they are needed over the next five years – not a onetime ammunition order.

Setting up contracts in this manner allows for a cheaper purchase price, saving money over the long-term. In fact, contracts like this one saved taxpayers $336 million in FY2011 alone. Additionally, purchasing in bulk like this helps DHS headquarter conduct better oversight over its agencies and ensures consistency among all the agencies under DHS. So, in this case CPB, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the U.S. Secret Service, and other DHS agencies will all use the same 40 caliber round so these rounds can move between agencies if need be – another way to potentially save money down the road.

To put this more concisely, just like you and your family take that monthly trip to Sam’s Club or Costco to get your bulk needs cheaply, DHS also buys in bulk because it saves the American taxpayers money.

http://westmoreland.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=642&Itemid=372

 

[22-rimfire]

So this contract is for ammunition on demand like walking into a gunshop and picking up a few boxes of ammunition. The gun shop has to make sure they can fulfil the ammunition order on demand by maintaining a stockpile availabe for this purchase when demand is made.

Still sounds like a way to lock up the ammunition manufacturers with huge orders so they can not address civilian demand.

 

[alsaqr]

Still sounds like a way to lock up the ammunition manufacturers with huge orders so they can not address civilian demand.

Not exactly. The US government sends the company a delivery order to be completed at some future date. Then the company makes the ammo.

These IDIQ contracts for ammunition are very iffy things. The company has a contract for one year. Within that one year period the US goverment may buy some ammunition, or they may not. The US government has the option of extending the contract for up to four additional years. The goverment may cancel the contract after one year and order another round of bidding.

The storing of huge quantities of product is a non gainer for companies.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

Actually there is a story here. Relative to other police agencies they are buying at a much higher rate per man. The logical conclusion is that they are in fact preparing for something that they don't want to tell us sheep about.

Not really. DHS runs several training facilities that train agents and officers from a plethora of federal entities. Thus they are filling the demands of well beyond the numbers of agents specifically working for DHS. That possible order spaced over several years and divided by the number of people being equipped and trained is not vastly out of proportion. Also, we would expect federal law enforcement agents to be better equipped and trained than the local cops in Middle-of-nowheresville. So the comparison is a little bit apples and oranges. Frankly though, if you summed up all the demands of the agencies that used to place orders independently but are now part of the lump DHS order, I very much doubt it would be significantly different than the current order. People really do need to stop fixating on this because it does make us look paranoid and incapable of logical reasoning.

Here's the Vuurwapen Blog on the subject who did a decent job explaining some of how much this is a non-issue:
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2013/03/27/billions-of-bullets-and-thousands-of-mraps-oh-my/

 

[Kevin5098]

So what the debunkers of this conspiracy are telling us is that DHS ORDERS billions of rounds to get a good price, but they only BUY normal quantities. Suppliers don't make and inventory the entire amount ordered. This doesn't seem to add up. How do you get a volume discount without having to purchase the volume? How can the supplier offer the discount without actually selling the amount ordered?

 

[bikerdoc]

Petty much answered in post 75 and 80, so I am going to use the 3 page guideline .