More questions about supressors

[Samari Jack]

If this has been asked before please link to the response.

I was at a local gun show recently. A licensed gun dealer, from whom I bought a 223 Winchester, was also selling silencers. He had these forms, supposedly putting the silencer in a trust that conveyed legally being able to buy and sell a silencer. He stocked ones from a .22 to .308 NATO. He also sold bayonet style mounts that would screw on the barrel in place of a flash suppressor to enable quick attach and detach of the silencer (like those on a 35mm camera lens not the blade/sticking type). They were not cheap dummies but the real thing. One for a 556 was $800.00.

It admittedly got my interest. Cutting down on noise would be great, not to mention the cool factor. They apparently are not legal to hunt with, maybe not even to shoot, I'm not sure. I suppose owning one is OK but why own if you can't shoot. For $800.00, I'd have to win the lottery to buy one. I put it on the same wish list that I have for a Barrett .50 cal.

I live in the South, where we have beautiful GRITS (Girls Raised In The South). NC to be specific.

 

[kingpin008]

So...what's your question?

 

[GoingQuiet]

I agree with Kingpin - where's the question here?

 

[W.E.G.]

You bought a .223 Winchester?

I thought it was .223 Remington.

Are you sure it wasn't a 5.56?

I've heard you can't use silencers on 5.56, although you can use suppressors on .223, except for hunting crows on Sunday.

 

[Samari Jack]

M question is it seems like a legit loophole in allowing for the purchase of a silencer or supressor with no permitting, or fees. Just open a trust account, he gives you the paperwork to have, and plop on the gun silencer. You do need a Concealed Carry card. HE lives in NC as well but sells in Virginia, and Myrtle Beach South Carolina as a dealer as well.

You were right about the rifle. It is a Christmas present that I have only been able to cop a feel one tim. Yes, it is a Stag Arms 5.56 Model 8.

IF it is legit and legal, it might be helpful tool to have around. But not at the cost of a federal conviction.

 

[Shikijiyu]

So far as I know there are no loopholes. If there were, everyone would have silencers and full autos and nobody would be fool enough to pay $200 for a tax stamp.

When you fill out the form 4 you are applying to have an NFA weapon transferred into your name OR into a trust. There are certain benefits to transferring to a trust, namely (I think) that you don't need a CLEO signature and you can put other people on the trust. However, the paperwork remains the same and so does the $200 charge. You still get sent the stamp once you have been approved (and in neither case do you get the suppressor before you have been approved).

However, you were at a gunshow, just talking to some dude. There is always the possibility that he doesn't understand the process and/or doesn't care. Maybe he WOULD have been willing to just hand you the suppressor on the spot along with a meaningless pile of paperwork, but it would NOT have been legal.

I'm not positive, but I believe owning an NFA item illegally is a felony. Although the guy's prices seem reasonable for a silencer in that caliber, it is still a significant investment on your part. You might as well make sure that what you are doing is legit, so that you can shoot your suppressed firearm with the peace of mind that what you are doing is totally legal.

 

[WoofersInc]

M question is it seems like a legit loophole in allowing for the purchase of a silencer or supressor with no permitting, or fees.

What the trust does is allow you to bypass the chief law officer sign-off. It also means you bypass having to send in fingerprint cards to ATF. However you do still have to submit the Form 4 to ATF and wait for it to come back approved before you get possession of the suppressor.
Another benefit is that anybody listed on the trust can use and have possession of the suppressor. So if you have family, etc, you would want to allow shoot the suppressor, this allows them to take it with them if they are on the trust. You don't have to be present as you would on an individual transfer.

Shooting suppressed is a lot of fun, and also addicting. I've got 5 suppressors already and have the paperwork in with ATF on 2 more. I've also been looking at a few more. So just be warned if you do take the plunge..

One thing I would recommend is to start off with a 22 suppressor first as these are the quietest. Plus, they are a lower cost way to get into the game and find out if it is for you. My 22 suppressors are the ones that get shot the most.

 

[Ranb]

Ditto what WoofersInc said. I used to own my silencers as an individual, but recently went to using a shared revocable trust with my brother and I as trustees and our adult children as the beneficiaries. Not only does this eliminate the requirement for the sheriff's sig and finger prints, the kids can inherit without a will. I would still use an ATF form 5 though.

The other advantage is that my brother lives in NV and does not have a lathe, while I live in WA where silencers can be owned but not used. He submits the ATF form 1 and pays the tax; I buy the material and make it. After it is done I mail it to him and he stores it for our use. Mine are nearly as effective as the well made commercial ones and much cheaper, even inclcuding a $2000 investment in machine tools.

You need to know that the only suppressed firearms that are truly "not noisy" are the 22lr ones. Anything else will still be noisy, but probably not so loud as to require ear plugs, unless you shoot indoors or under weather protection.

Ranb

 

[Bubbles]

There is a whole lot of what-the-fruitbat??? in what the OP posted.

A licensed gun dealer, from whom I bought a 223 Winchester, was also selling silencers. He had these forms, supposedly putting the silencer in a trust that conveyed legally being able to buy and sell a silencer.

First and foremost, even if you hold NFA items such as suppressors in a trust, the Form 4 process is still required. Buying a NFA item is in no way ever a "cash and carry" deal, even between FFL/SOT's.

The only two advantages with using a trust or LLC to hold your NFA items: first is that some local LE agencies won't sign off on a Form 1 or Form 4, and second is that if there are multiple shooters (e.g. husband and wife) who would like to take the firearm out shooting, they can legally do so.

Second, if this guy is selling NFA items in multiple states, he must have an FFL/SOT in each one of those states. NFA firearms can not be transferred across state lines to a non-FFL/SOT. They must be transferred to a dealer in that state, who will then transfer them to the buyer.

Third, is this guy an attorney? If not, he has no business drawing up trusts for people. Most states have laws about practicing law w/o a license.

Personally I would stay far away.

 

[zoom6zoom]

One for a 556 was $800.00.

Keep in mind that the price of the can usually doesn't include the $200 for the tax stamp, either.

 

[GoingQuiet]

Unless it was a YHM Phantom.