Mosin Express Rifle

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Many of the 'express' rifles are in Drillings, a rifles 3 or more barrels, enabling the same gun to be used on multiple game, often there was a 'dangerous' game chambering, in case of something like an enraged elephant and the rifle was express, in it could be brought up and emptied quickly.
 
Driftertank said:
I've said that my M44, with 203gr SP's and bayonet fixed, would make a nice brush gun for feral swine. Handy and powerful, and with the "pig-sticker" out i'd be less concerned about one getting too close before i can draw a bead...lol

1. Poke pig
2. Pull trigger

:D
Click to expand...
All that would be left then would be to put a crank handle on the buttstock so you can use the rifle and bayonet as a rotisory.
 
A red dot belongs on an express rifle about as much as quad rails. A DG bolt gun might have 3 leaf sights and a 1/4 rib... the rib is the pricey bit.

You want a blade and bead front sight like on a Marlin 1895, brass or ivory bead. Brownells no doubt sells them.

It's really more $$ than it's worth, but might be a FINE project for someone going to gunsmithing school.

http://www.z-hat.com/express_sights.htm
 
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Each leaf is for a different range.
First you estimate the range and then you turn up the leaf for the nearest setting.
Right.
A high intensity round like 7.62 will shoot close enough to a single sight setting out to 200 yards. And that is already farther than I care to shoot with open sights so I don't need multi-leaf express sights. Famous elephant hunter (ivory poacher) John "Pondoro" Taylor agreed, saying he took the extra blades off his guns, depending on getting within the range covered by the main leaf, usually 50 yards for a "stopper" or 100+ for a medium caliber.
 
I have two 91/30s that have or are being sporterized. The first is a 1942 Tula cut to 22", mounts a ATI stock with a Pachmyer shotgun recoil pad, a Rem M-700 bolt handle, and a white bead Williams streamline front sight with a Mauser M-98 peep rear that I use as a ghost ring. My old eyes easily hold 1.5" @ 100 yards, and recoil is very manageable.

The second is currently under construction, and will actually be like your 'express' rifle. A 1931 Tula hex with a '51 barrel, matching numbers, it is cut to 19", and will get a Richards Precision old classic full-length stock, butterknife bolt handle, and a Ruger #1 quarter rib with 2 additional dovetails cut to accomodate three Lyman folding leaf sights. The original plan was to rebore and chamber it in .348 Win rimless, but the cost would easily double the cost of the entire project, so will likely never happen.

Don't be afraid of blast and recoil. The design of the original stock is one of the very worst on the planet. Get an aftermarket stock and fit a shotgun recoil pad and it will be a pussycat. In the field, it won't seem any louder than any other 30-06 class carbine.

I do most of my own smithing, so I have less than $200.00 in the first rifle, but I'm splurging a bit on the second, with the fancy stock and sights, but expect it to come in under $500.00...And before you milsurp snobs start in on the 'why not buy a Remchesterby?'...Because I hate vanilla, and the Mosin-Nagant, properly sporterized, is the most elegant rifle I have ever laid eyes on, and life's too short to shoot ugly guns.
 
I have a 1944 Carbine I love but the damn thing does kick and throw a lot of flame. A couple years ago I purchased a muzzle break for the gun at my local gun show. I have no idea who made it but it WORKS lowering the felt recoil and cutting down the muzzle blast. That old war horse is my "truck gun" that has taken both deer and hog. You need to reload though. If nothing else get a bullet puller, cheap lee loader, and bullets of choice. If its the 147gr FMJ you can substitute the bullet with a 150 grain pill of your choice using the same powder. If it's the heavier bullet pull and replace with the same weight sporting bullet. Neat part???? You don't have to look around for the spent berdan cases. :D Note the bullets are somewhere around .311 (same as Brit .303) so don't use .308 diameter bullets.
 
Hi Folks,

You might check out http://smith-sights.com and http://brassstacker.com/mosin-nagant/ for Mosin accessories related to what you're doing.

Yes, I run Smith-Sights. Brass Stacker makes some awesome items, including a front sight adapter ring so you don't have to mess with trying to remount the stock sight block, and I make hi-viz sights and such.

I was making roller-bearing triggers for about a week (based on a Finnish design that couldn't be patented and I was therefore violating nobody's existing patent), but found out my insurance wasn't good for triggers. Figures.

I plan to bring them out again, but I'm trying to figure out how to do so and still keep them half the cost of other triggers out there.

Regards,

llc%20sig.jpg
 
Josh I'd be interested to hear more about those Finnish triggers. How do they work and what are the advantages?

Clipper I'd love to see both of those rifles.

Also, any thoughts on Mannlicher stocks?
 
My latest project will get a Mannlicher-type stock. Richards Precision makes full-length stocks in some of the classic styles for an extra $50.00 or so.
 
Take military surplus ammo and download the powder charge. I have reduced the powder charge from 48 grains to 42 grains. It improves the accuracy IMHO and it reduces recoil. A recoil pads improves the comfort. I don't think the M44 is that bad to shoot overall. The accuracy of most Mosins can create a challenge. My thoughts are anything less than 20" barrel will be inaccurate.
 
Thunder Chief said:
Josh I'd be interested to hear more about those Finnish triggers. How do they work and what are the advantages?
Click to expand...

Hello,

There are two pivot points for the trigger on the sear instead of one.

The one I used to sell before I figured out I didn't have the insurance to do so (damned litigious society!) had single rollers, but I was working on a dual-roller that was an improved Finn trigger.

I have one of those prototypes in my favorite Mosin and it feels much BETTER than a Mauser or M88!

What I was selling:

roller%20trigger_sm.jpg

The page is still up, awaiting a time when I can find exactly what is required of me, insurance-wise:

http://www.smith-sights.com/finn-pinned-roller-triggers.php

Two-stage prototype:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWDitIiapo

Original Finn M28/76 trigger:

pix225593636.gif
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=290437990#PIC

Notice how alike this is to a Mauser trigger. It feels very nice.

The M39 trigger that I had improved upon:

pix292600034.gif
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=289384276#PIC

The difference between the Finnish version and mine is that mine uses roller bearings instead of static pins. Part of the trigger is left in place to serve as a bearing race, said race being highly polished.

To be fair, some of the Finnish models do roll, but whether that's accident or design, I do not know.

Pins are about 2mm give or take a bit.

In my humble opinion, any of these triggers feel much nicer than Huber and even, in the second stage, much better than Timney.

It does require knowledge of the inner workings and some tweaking to get the second stage feeling like better than a Timney, but once achieved it's worth it. Right now my trigger is sitting at about 3lbs first stage and 4lbs second stage (forgot to measure it!) but I have had it down to about a 1lb first stage and 2lbs second stage.

The second stage is very crisp in both these instances, and I like the slightly heavier pull because my Mosin is a working gun, not a safe or target queen. The fact that it will now do sub-MOA groups (I'm only capable of about 2.5MOA groups consistently with iron sights off a front rest, no rear rest) is what I require as I do take coyote with it out here to about 200 yards.

The Finns did a lot of good stuff! Google Finn Mosin modifications. I also have a lot of them listed on my site should you want to visit that.

I am somewhat of an experimental archaeologist, having grown up hunting with homemade bows (not great, but they worked for squirrel!), slings (NOT slingshots, think "David and Goliath", got pretty good making and shooting those!) and spears and atlatls (can't use 'em on deer in Indiana, so these pretty much stuck to paper. I tried a rabbit once but it just destroyed the critter!)

I've moved this experimental archaeology thing of mine to guns now, and I publish what I do. The sights are a way to support myself while providing this information for people to use; and, while I like doing the sights and think I do them well, I am really just a po'boy who likes to tinker and teach (sub license for the schools, even!)

Regards,

llc%20sig.jpg
 
It is funny that if you talk about cutting down an Enfield or Springfield rifle from the same era people will come in and say "bubba'd this bubba'd that" but if you talk about cutting down a Mosin people actually discuss it calmly and nobody tells you not to do it.

I know the Mosin isn't exactly a wonderous collector's piece but instead of buying a Mosin and cutting it down, why not just buy an M44 or M38 that is already in the configuration you're wanting?
 
I want something shorter than an M44, and with different sights and stock. A sporting rifle rather than a military rifle. I just happen to like 7.62x54R (my wallet does, too).
 
A few things to hit on what a lot of people have said here.

1) For and express rifle I'd shy away from a red dot. These are supposed to be robust and reliable for dangerous critters. For a boar rifle a RDS would be dandy.

2) Timney makes a drop in trigger for the Mosin if you don't mind dropping $100 or so - not too much more than that Finnish trigger.

3) From my experiences chopping down a Mosin, the stock stock is fine. You can cut it down for the barrel, bed the action, whatever. I also cut down the stock to fit a very generous recoil pad (and maintain LOP). Richard's Microfit also makes wood stocks for the Mosin.

4) I've seen Mosins with flash hiders added. I've seen ones that work with set screws. I'd probably favor something welded in.

5) As far as the recoil - the one I chopped was 20" and I could shoot it all day long. While the blast was impressive the kick wasn't any more than my 30-06. I doubt cutting another 3.5" would make that much difference.
 
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...Yeah, but the Timney has a real, useable safety lever. Worth the hassle right there. Besides, I want to mill most of that gruesome hump off the cocking piece (yes, I know some of it must be kept for the gun to cock), and turn the safety knob way down. Ought to have the added benefit of faster lock time.
 
If you really like Express Rifles then look at the Ruger African in .223. Best bargain out there and you can afford to shoot it.
 
One of the most handsom rifles I've seen in quite awhile was a sporterized MN. It looked like the work of classic gunsmiths Griffin & Howe. The stock was dark walnut with ebony nose and grip cap. The barrel was polished down and cut to about 22 inches and blued like a pre '64 Winchester. It had express sights and barrel band sling loop. I drooled and drooled over it and wondered what body parts I could sell to get it. I just couldn't find the $600 to buy it. I dont think you could build that firearm for $600....dang it was sooo sweet.

'loose
 
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