Mosin M44 Accuracy?
- Thread starter primalmu
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Ash
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That's alright, those people get to walk about in the real world from time to time and learn the difference between impassioned opinion and the way things really are.
Ash
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An innuendo, perhaps, will pass into reality with them.
d2wing
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A US tank driver could not take much comfort as he rumbled down a cobblestone road, that he could be easily replaced if he came across a Tiger. It is easy to say 70 years later that the Nazis were doomed by superior industrial capacity. It may not have felt like that to a merchant marine stalked by wolf packs or a Sherman Tank crew facing Tigers. I doubt any Russian or German Soldier took any comfort that his rifle may have some small functional difference. In my experience the K98 is a little better but neither was a match for a Garand.
Ash
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Never once did I say that the Sherman was a match for a Tiger, it clearly wasn't. But the tanker crews had air support. How about a Tiger vs a P47? An infantryman huddled in a crater or foxhole while artillery falling down felt no less terror or dread, and artillery beat rifles every day. But the war was not a series of one on one roll the dice engagements. Failing to look at the big picture is failing to understand what happened. Sailors of the Merchant Marine suffered higher attrition than did infantry, and they didn't even get to have medals or the like. My grandfather (mother's dad) worked in that realm and lost an eye while escaping a burning ship.
War is terrible, dirty, violent. The here-and-now of it is something none who experience it want to relive. Yet it is no fantasy world to actually understand the big picture, either.
In any case, there were only 1,368 total Tigers made during the entire war, production was halted in 1944 in favor of the Panther, which was supposed to be able to better fight the T34 (it was a sort of copy of the T34) but had dismal reliability. Some 50,000 Shermans were made. The bulk of German tanks in WWII were Panzer IV's. So, said M4 crew was most likely to face a tank against which they had more or less parity.
War is terrible, dirty, violent. The here-and-now of it is something none who experience it want to relive. Yet it is no fantasy world to actually understand the big picture, either.
In any case, there were only 1,368 total Tigers made during the entire war, production was halted in 1944 in favor of the Panther, which was supposed to be able to better fight the T34 (it was a sort of copy of the T34) but had dismal reliability. Some 50,000 Shermans were made. The bulk of German tanks in WWII were Panzer IV's. So, said M4 crew was most likely to face a tank against which they had more or less parity.
Back to the Mosin....with how accurate they are don't discount the ammo. If you are shooting surplus made in 1950 by some WWII german POW. Modern factory and even better your hand loads can do wonders for these guns. One of mine will toss all over the paper with surplus, but with partisan ammo it is in a group the size of a head at 100 from a rest.
Don't discount them until you try some good quality ammo.
Don't discount them until you try some good quality ammo.
BCRider
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Helping to get this back on track again I'll add that my own SPAM can milsurp ammo is horrible. It gives 8 to 10 inch groups at best at 100. Switching to some Privi Partisan ammo immediately dropped that down to 3 inch groups. And given my "old guy eyes" and the plain iron sights along with rather sketchy rested hold skills I'm pretty sure the rifle is actually capable of 2 inch or better and it's me that is holding it back.
The german tiger tank could hit and destroy the sherman before the sherman's gun could even reach the tiger. The shermans round would also bounce off the frontal armor of the tiger. The shermans could only destroy a tiger attacking from the side. If the germans had enough tigers we would be speaking german now. Of course having the madman Hitler as their leader did not help their cause either. Zhukov was the russian general who survived Stalin's purges to help win the war.
Ash
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The Tiger was no match against a P-47 or a P-51. You could have all 1,300 Tigers ever made and they could do nothing against the Jabbos. They had an unreliable engine to boot. The Germans even knew the Tiger wasn't where it was at, they stopped manufacturing them in 1944 and concentrated on the Panther.
British Firefly versions of the Sherman was capable against the Tiger, as was the M36 and the Pershing and Patton tanks. Sure, the King Tiger was an awesome tank, but tanks could never compete against airpower.
British Firefly versions of the Sherman was capable against the Tiger, as was the M36 and the Pershing and Patton tanks. Sure, the King Tiger was an awesome tank, but tanks could never compete against airpower.
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