Mosin Nagant 91/30 Q's

[dak0ta]

Hey,

I'm searching for my first MN 91/30. I was wondering whether you guys recommend shelling out the extra cash for a laminated stock or does the hardwood stock work well enough? Also, are most of the MN's in this country Arsenal refurbs? This means that the barrels were pretty much replaced after the war? Or counter-bored?
Also, is the hex receiver worth $10 more than a round receiver? Is it just an indication of pre-war manufacturing and hence better quality? If so, should I not hesitate and get a hex receiver rifle?

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Hey!
I bought a Mosin Nagant a few months back, and have learned a ton about them.
1. Laminated stocks are better, yes.
2. Most MNs are century imports/arsenal refurbs. That said, it is still common to find them with all matching serial numbers.
3. There isn't a big difference in the receiver. However, after owning a round receiver one, I would spring for the hex receiver. As you said, pre-war manufacturing standards were higher which can only be better.

Here is where I come in:
The older Mosin Nagants are, the better they tend to be. That being said, STAY AWAY from ones that look very nice, but were made in around 1942-ish. That likely means that they weren't used in battle because they were never good enough shooters when they tested them.

 

[dak0ta]

Nice bit of info on the 1942 ones. What year were laminated stocks put in? And is it hard to find a hex receiver with a laminated stock?

 

[thralldad]

I picked up a 1932 hex at a gun show for $125. Looks straight out of the arsenal. The magazine floorplate serial number was struck through but everything else matched. Bayonet,ammo pouches,take down tools, sling and oiler. This month I couldn't find a comparable gun for less than $169 in Austin,TX.

 

[Franco2shoot]

Opinions are like noses, everybody has one... that said, I'm gonna take some exception with the previous poster and will pass along my own EXPERIENCE.

I looked for about a year at 91/30's not so much to make the perfect purchase, but more of a shopping experience. I saw low end's (rough condition wise) and High ends (really pretty). Now I am a history buff, so I also started reading about the rifle in battle conditions. So that's my background. I also wanted something that was not just a wall hanger, but something that could put bambi's Pappa in the freezer. Prices can be outrageous on both ends. Original sniper models can fetch 5-700 bucks, maybe more with the PU scope. Unless you are a collector, I would steer clear of these. I just wanted a basic model, not too dinged up. Prices were running from 90 - 200 bucks for these. Finnish models are highly sought after since they were better made. Visit this link for everything you ever wanted to know about Mosins:
http://www.mosinnagant.net/i3tro4.asp

One fine day all the pre-conditions came together (Gun slush fund at +200 bucks, nice example in a stores consignment rack, ready to buy feeling). The example I picked up had the ATI scope mount/bolt already attached - no Scope, but the price was 100 bucks.

It had all matching serial numbers, (Look on the butt plate, the bottom of the receiver, and the barrel), and MOST importantly very nice rifle'ing when viewd with my pocket penlight. The barrel was black, but the grooves stood out.

The stock was full of cosmoline, I'm guessing it was gunked on and wrapped in freezer wrap paper for about 50 years before winding up in my hands. Still for a hundred bucks what does one expect. It took me quite a while to get the stock to MY desired finish. Many will think this sacreligious, but its my gun... I used several rags, and gasoline out in the back yard to completely remove all finish and all the cosmoline. I then smoothed out dings using a hair dryer, and 800 sand paper. I was careful not to remove any of the arsenal markings. I took the stock to a woodworking guru and looking at the colour under the top of the forearm, (it was somewhat a cherry color) I combined two stains, a dark walnut and a cherry to come up with the color I wanted. Initially, it was too red, but some darker mix of walnut corrected that. I finished the stock off with an oil finish.

Next I turned to the barrel. This too was a multi week process going through several levels of grit cleaners always rotating in the direction of the groove. The next to last step was to "Cork" the barrel. This involves 3 very thin slices of cork taken lengthwise from a wine bottle cork. One piece goes over the top, the other two support the bottom 2 thirds of the barrel, and they go under the barrel up at the front most band.

Prior to this "corking", bench shooting at a local range with a target at 100 yards produced a pattern about the size of a small coffee cup saucer. Once completed, the pattern was reduced to the size of a small expresso coffee cup. Attaching the bayonett moved the entire pattern down and right.

I mounted a Wally World 125$ scope on my 91/30, and for the price it is fantastic. Ammo 7.62x54r is inexpensive especially when considering just how powerful a round it is. I now keep several tins of it and watch for any discount deals at gun shows.

OK so I've passed along my little story and with respect to your questions,
1. Hex or round - only difference is one's older (what looks better to you)
2. Arsenal marks - Just means some slub in a commie factory took everything apart put
it back together and shoved it out the door. I would look to see a clean (Non
counterbored ) muzzle... Really look for solid rifle'ing
3. Laminated vs non ( do you like Blondes or Redheads?) just a preference thing

Here's what I take to the range, and it never goes that someone admires it and asks about it.

Tips,
Make up and attachment that will screw on the rifle's cleaning rod and swap out with a damp cloth (I use windex, but any commercial cleaner will do) I then do a thorough clean once I return home.

Cork the barrel, it will improve accuracy.

Shoot the beeejeezus out of it, it was inexpensive to purchase, and you can taylor it to your own satisfaction.

Watch out cuz once you buy one, a penchant for more develops, I now own 3.


KKKKFL

 

[88 Cutlass]

All these posts are very informational. All I did was wait for Cabela's to have thier $99 sale. Went and picked out a matching numbers Mosin Nagant, cleaned it well and took it right to the range. I was able to hit clay pigeons out at 100 yards after not to many pratice shots. I would say any Mosin Nagant as long as the rifling looks good and the action isn't to rough should serve it's purpose

 

[sayak]

Laminated stocks resist warping and shrinkage more than regular wood, but the MN laminates are not pretty. Worth the extra money? Maybe not. Free float your barrel and there may be no need.

Some MNs shoot well right out of the box; most need some tuning. I mounted a scope (along with a Boyds stock and various other features) on mine and was able to get better groupings.

 

[rondog]

Lots of info here, make a pot of coffee.... http://7.62x54r.net/

 

[dak0ta]

I'm tending to lean towards the blondie hardwood stocks myself. Probably going to use it as a range gun/hunting. Which parts are the most important for matching? Bolt, barrel, magazine, and?

 

[rondog]

Matching numbers don't really matter, only from a collecting standpoint. What matters most is that the barrel's in good condition, and the bolt's headspaced correctly. Pre-war Mosins are usually machined much nicer than ones made during the frantic war production years.

 

[Blue Brick]

The magazine floorplate serial number was struck through

Huh?

 

[wrench]

Type of stock-personal preference.
Hex or round receiver-personal preference.
Matching numbers on bolt, barrel, buttplate, magazine cover. Important? To collectors, it is, for a shooter? Not so much.
For a shooter, look for bore condition first, then bore condition, and finally, bore condition.
Buy a pack of as many different types of ammo as you can find, any given gun will have a preference. Some of mine pattern like shotguns with one type, and will hold the 10 ring with others.

 

[hirundo82]

I picked up a couple of Mosins from AIM Surplus a couple of weeks back with my C&R ($69 each, delivered to my door). I got a 1936 Tula and a 1940 Izhevsk. Both are in pretty good condition and with all matching numbers, although the fit and finish on the '36 is unsurprisingly better than the '40. The barrels on both look good and are not counterbored.

Just wanted to report that the batch AIM has right now is pretty good, if you want to order one.

 

[wnycollector]

I have owned a half dozen different model of M/N's. I have sold off everyone except my 1932 hex receiver. This rifle is a legitimate 2-3MOA with Hungarian light ball. I have had M/N's (my M-38 comes to mind) that would not keep all 5 rounds on a 1' target at 100 yards...but to look at it...it was a beaut I think it is really luck of the draw when it comes to these rifles and accuracy.

If I only had one rifle chambered for 7.62x54, it would be a Finn M39...those rifles are much more consistently accurate!

 

[GD]

I would save for a Finnish rifle - the M39's are still being sold by a few dealers. The Finns took the mosin and made it an accurate rifle.

 

[SpentCasing]

The magazine floorplate serial number was struck through

Huh?

There's a serial number on the floorplate of a MN. If it had to be replaced at the arsenal they would pull an old mag floorplate and attatch to the now being refurbed rifle. Obviously the new(old) floorplate would have corresponding serial number to the rifle it was taken from so a line would be "struck" through the old serial number and a corresponding "new" serial number would be struck in too match the other numbers.

Collectors like to have all original matching numbers is all. Shooters not so big of a deal. Hope this made sense.

 

[Cosmoline]

I would save for a Finnish rifle

This. I love the 91/30 in a lot of ways. It's light and handy for such a tough a war rifle, and fun to shoot. Some can be accurate. But it overheats fast and the barrels are very thin. The M39 is a rifleman's rifle and I love it more all the time. You really notice its advantages of barrel thickness and stock over the course of a day's shooting.

 

[dak0ta]

Would you recommend the 91/30 or M44 as a range/hunting rifle? I'm just hesitant about the side folding bayonet having to be deployed in order to shoot straight unless I tap the front sight to drift it to zero without the bayonet folded out.

 

[Cosmoline]

You hit on the M44 solution in your post--just re-zero in the configuration you want with the ammo you want.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Laminated stocks resist warping and shrinkage more than regular wood, but the MN laminates are not pretty. Worth the extra money? Maybe not. Free float your barrel and there may be no need.

Some MNs shoot well right out of the box; most need some tuning. I mounted a scope (along with a Boyds stock and various other features) on mine and was able to get better groupings.

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I'll be damned if I don't have a verrry pretty laminated one.

 

[Dfaught]

TheS@W 32-20

I was reading some past conversations on the Smith and Wesson 32-20. Mine has a serial number of 27480, I was noting that this number is possible a pre 1905. could someone tell me when this handgun was manufactured and where I might find ammo for it. My grandfather used it as a guard in the coal mines during the union/ non union disputes.

 

[Blue Brick]

That being said, STAY AWAY from ones that look very nice, but were made in around 1942-ish. That likely means that they weren't used in battle because they were never good enough shooters when they tested them.

Hope not....1938. I have not fired it yet.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

That is pretty much exactly how mine looked.

Its just a guess, it isn't proven, but it is an educated guess.
1. Russia was in a lot of battles in 1942, including Stalingrad.
2. Any rifle around that time probably would have gotten pretty beat up.
3. If a rifle wasn't used in combat, then there are a few explanations that I can see. 1, it was an officer's rifle, 2, it was stockpiled or something, or 3 , that it failed to pass production standards (Which I see as most likely, judging by how mine turned out )

In my case, my rifle has all matching numbers, very good appearance, shiny barrel, shiny bore, shiny/smooth bolt, but shoots 6 inches to a foot high. The fact that it has all matching numbers means that it was likely put away and never touched again.

What I did, in my case, was to sand down the sight base, and I took off about 6 inches of bullet-rise.

 

[Deus Machina]

What range is it shooting high at? MNs are pretty notorious for shooting high at the 100-yard range.

My thoughts on the matter are 1) the ammo they used in WW2 was round-nosed and heavier, so may have dropped off quicker or not had the velocity of today's light ball and 2) they probably trained (read: told, then shoved onto the front line) the soldiers to aim for COM instead of trying to actually hit one particular place, and shooting a foot high would do that at more settings on the rear sight.

The common fix for shooting high is to slip a piece of Q-tip stick, or shrink tube, or any other properly-sized tube over the front sight so it sticks above, and trim to length.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

What range is it shooting high at? MNs are pretty notorious for shooting high at the 100-yard range.

My thoughts on the matter are 1) the ammo they used in WW2 was round-nosed and heavier, so may have dropped off quicker or not had the velocity of today's light ball and 2) they probably trained (read: told, then shoved onto the front line) the soldiers to aim for COM instead of trying to actually hit one particular place, and shooting a foot high would do that at more settings on the rear sight.

The common fix for shooting high is to slip a piece of Q-tip stick, or shrink tube, or any other properly-sized tube over the front sight so it sticks above, and trim to length.

Huh, I may have to try that. Ill see how it shoots with the rear site base sanded down.
Yes, it is at the 100 yard range.