Mosin Nagant Questions

[Armueller2001]

Is there any drawback to getting the Carbine vs. the full length one?

Also, how many times can 7.62x54r ammo be reloaded before it's worthless? I found really really cheap ammo but it's either steel cased, or berdan primed. Haven't found any cheap boxer primed brass yet, I may just get cheap crap and not reload it.

 

[scott22]

IMO, you are better of getting the "cheap crap" and not reloading the 7.62x54r. As far as the going with carbine vs full length, hold 'em both see what you like. I only have an M44 so I cant give a whole lot of insight on that.

 

[Win75]

I shoot the longer rifles better because...of the longer sight radius, heavier thus less recoil, and probably because I shoot them more.

I have a Model 27 that shoots good but I prefer a 91 which I do not have at this time but I am going to remedy that soon.

I reload for my 27 because it is not D marked and has a .309 bore so I really don't want to shoot .311-12 stuff. I have bought S&B ammo, Winchester ammo, and some Norma stuff at pawn shops or gun shows and I am reloading those with mostly .308 FMJ. I have a hunting load with .308 Hornady's. I always just neck size the brass to make it last longer.

I have a 91/30 that I shoot the cheap stuff in.

 

[jrfoxx]

only drawback to the 91/30 vs a carbine like an m44 I can think of is the extra weight of the full size rifle. The Mosins are relatively heavy guns to begin with, so the longer ones are heavier. Not a big deal really, unless you use one to do hunting where you have to carry it all day though, and even then, just using the sling probly eliminates that mostly.

Oh, another drawback is the full size are a little quiter, and dont have the giant fireball coming out the barrel, so if that kind of thing makes you smile, then it may be a drawback.

Otherwise, the full size seem to generally be a little more accurate I'm told (only have 2 carbines, M44 and Chineses type 53, so I cant say from personal experiance, just seems to be waht I hear), and the added weight may help with recoil some, (but a slip-on buttpad makes the point moot), and added barrel length probly adds at least a little extar MV (not sure if it's enough to really matter or not though.).

Generally, the rifle vs carbine choice in Mosins seems to be based more on personal preferance than a plus/minus logic decision for most people.

either one you choose, they are basically a whittled down railroad tie with a barrel and bayonet that you'll be REALLY hard pressed to damage the value, function, or looks on (with rare exceptions for the rare(er) mosin types)

 

[GD]

I have about 30 Mosins in all sorts of flavors. The carbines do exhibit strong muzzle flash. A M44 weighs about the same as a M91/30 and has about the same recoil. A m38 or M91/59 has slightly more recoil as they don't have an attached bayonet and weigh a little less.
When it comes to accuracy, the most consistenly accurate mosin carbine is the M91/59 at about 2 MOA or better. The M44's and M38's should on average get 4 MOA. Finnish mosins generally are much more accurate than any of the Russians. You will pay for that difference too, unless the seller doesn't know what they have. Finnish M39's are the epitome of Mosin production and are still available at a number of dealers.
Personally, I like the balance of the longer mosins and find the long sight radius beneficial to my old eyes.
If I had to recommend 1 mosin, it would be the Finnish M39. It's benefits are 1.5 MOA on average, pistol grip stock, intermediate length between carbine and M91, nice sights, strong stock, and they are full of history. I have paid anywhere from $60 to $200 for the 6 in my collection.
If you can find a Finnish M27 like Win72's or any other of the Finnish rifles, jump on it - you can expect great accuracy out of them.

 

[jws527]

either one you choose, they are basically a whittled down railroad tie with a barrel and bayonet that you'll be REALLY hard pressed to damage the value, function, or looks on (with rare exceptions for the rare(er) mosin types)

This is very true. I'm somewhat amazed by how simple - and intuitive - the MN is, even by bolt gun standards. The bolt catch is part of the trigger assembly and there's no mag follower - the bolt literally slides around freely in the receiver when there are no rounds in the mag. The "safety" is best described as "simple" (and somewhat useless) and the trigger is absolutely terrible. Build tolerances (at least on my wartime Soviet models) are very loose.

Despite this, they're remarkably fun and effective.

 

[Mr White]

Privi and S&B load 7.62x54R ammo with boxer primed brass cases. You can also buy Privi brass from Grafs. Its a LOT cheaper than the Norma and Lapua brass. I haven't started loading this caliber yet, but being that its in a bolt gun and not getting torn up in a semiauto, I'd imagine you'd get at least 6 or 7 reloadings from it before it fails.

 

[Vic303]

The M44 will be more accurate/hit POA if you extend the bayonet. The 91/30 while it is long, balances pretty well making carry easier than you think. The M39 Finns have a classic appearance, the best triggers of all the Mosins (except maybe another Finn), and the midlength barrel is good. The 91/30 makes a sweet pole-arm though if you put that 24" pigsticker on the end though!

 

[AmishFury]

only drawback to the 91/30 vs a carbine like an m44 I can think of is the extra weight of the full size rifle.

the M44 is actually 1/4lb heavier (standard stock... laminate stock rifles may be different)

however the 91/30 gains a bit of weight when you add the bayonet

 

[Franco2shoot]

decisions-decisions

I like both, but old eyes and a desire to hit what I am at have me shooting the 91/30 more. I've corked the barrel on the 91/30 and its pretty darn accurate. I'll post a target that you can see the difference achievable at least in my wobbly hands.

The holes are from the 91/30 and the patches are the M44 all shots a little over 100 yards. So here's some pictures.

91/30 w pig sticker attached balance is great.


Comparison of two:

I use surplus ammo just cuz I'm cheap, and cannot see a real difference in accuracy. At least not enough to spend the extra bucks. Just put a small bottle of windex in your carry case, and make your self a jag that will screw onto the onboard cleaning rod. As soon as you finish shooting spray down a patch with the windex and run it up and down the bore. This is just precautionary, I still do a thorough cleaning once I'm back home.

KKKKFL

 

[AmishFury]

first of all i recommend against using the included cleaning rod... it's made of the exact same steel as the barrel and can easily do damage to the bore (especially when used without the muzzle cover from the tool kit)

nearly all counterbored mosins got that way because Vlad damaged the crown while cleaning with the included rod and Ivan had to do the counterbore to fix it

if you're going to insist on using the included rod GET A TOOLKIT and use the muzzle cover with it...

photos of correct toolkit usage

step one make sure you have all the parts... some parts may vary and you might also have a brush


step 2 slide handle piece over cleaning rod


step 3 place other handle piece through hole on the part from step 2 (but not through hole in the cleaning rod)


step 4 slide muzzle cover on cleaning rod and screw on the jag


step 5 place patch on jag and push down bore using muzzle cover to keep the rod centered

 

[Franco2shoot]

I just took an 8 inch aluminum rod from an old pistol cleaning kit and re-tapped it so that one end screws into the rifle cleaning rod, and the other end accepts the plastic loop for a cleaning patch.
I toss this shorty rod with a clean patch into the carrying case. On finishing at the range and while still hot, I squirt the windex on the patch and with it screwed to the rifles rod, run it in and out.

It comes out filthy, and sometimes I'll use a second patch. Remember this is just an intermediate step til I get home.

KKKKFL

 

[AmishFury]

you still risk damaging your rifle's crown without the use of a muzzle cover to center the rod

the toolkit should have been included with the rifle but for those who didn't get a kit they are cheap (and useful... the screwdriver has notches for checking firing pin protrusion, can be used as a wrench for stubborn 91/30 bayonets, is a screwdriver, and can be used as a wrench for the firing pin and cleaning jag)

or just get a $5 3 piece aluminum rod for cleaning at the range... and clean from the chamber end

 

[Cosmoline]

Is there any drawback to getting the Carbine vs. the full length one?

Mostly the obvious stuff. The shorter the barrel, the louder it will be and the more flash there will be. Also as the weight goes down the recoil goes up. The shorter barrels are not inherently less accurate than the longer ones. The nation and arsenal matter more than barrel length as far as accuracy. Hunting I've gotten away with shooting full length M91's with only one plug in and had no ringing. Most of the noise and blast are gone by the end of that outrageously long barrel. I would never even try that with an M44 or M38!

how many times can 7.62x54r ammo be reloaded before it's worthless?

Winchester/S&B berdan primed cases are not too great and in my experience only hold up for about two or three reloads before they start to develop cracks. Norma and Lapua, available at midway, will last half a dozen or more reloads. More if you stick with mild loads.

For cleaning I like to use an extra long modern one-piece rod. The steel one will scratch it and the screw-together types can snap off. Minty bores with good ammo tend to be extremely easy to keep clean, but the older rougher bores can be a real bugbear.