Mosin-Nagant user thread

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Here are the data points that I have FWIW:
Soviet doctrine was for troops to "Always" keep bayonet attached, removal allowed for troop transport only. This was early in the war and pertained to 91/30's . As the war progressed and there was more "Street" fighting the M44 was born as the longish 91/30 was cumbersome. I really don't know if they continued the doctrine of bayonet extended, but would guess that they did.

From tests with my own 91/30 I can tell you that the bayonet shifts the POI. On mine the shift was 2 inches to the right and about 3 inches up. The pattern with the bayonet attached was about the size of a pie plate, however the test was flawed because I found the Tang and front screw had loosened.

Since the initial test where "No bayonet" was producing 1 MOA and about a 3 MOA with bayonet, I focused on bedding, and bore. Now I'm ready to repeat the test and will report.

The marks you have are for the Soldier's use, the Arsenal may or may not have sighted in the rifle, (when the arsenal did this they put a stamp on the barrel, but I don't have a clue what the stamp looks like) and with all the variations, it really doesn't matter. I would just use them as Today's reference point. Knock the front sight to where you achieve Total Gun Control. In other words you can hit what you aim at.

I am personally trying to improve as a shooter such that I can hold a pack of 20 rounds inside a 2 inch circle @ 120 yards with the 91/30. ( I can do this with my Remington Model 7 )

Start at 75 yards and using a bench with a rest tell us (or attach a pic) what your rifle is capable of doing and we will sort out the sight for you.

KKKKFL
 
Thanks

Thanks Franco for info on the ATI, a friend of mine got one the other day a Tula with all serial numbers matching does a Tula hold more value?
 
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Since the Tula arsenal had to be abandoned with the German Army advances the date on your friends rifle becomes a key factor. I also believe there is a general consensus that the Tula arsenal had better craftsmanship. Collectors are a funny breed, however, with differing ideas. For me, I'm not looking for a wall hanger, it's got to shoot great, so I look for the best rifeling, good crown, tight yet smooth bolt action. I'm not hung up on matching numbers since a re-arsenal means the weapon was checked out and refurbished some time after its initial construction. But, that's just me.

KKKKFL
 
Again thanks Franco for info I believe he said it was marked 1939 Low Wall reciever dont know what this is though, but he want's 170.00 for it, is this rifle rare? Or is the year (1939) common? just wondering why he wants so much for it. Its a nice looking rifle but I purchased 2 MN and I paid less than 170.00 for 2 rifles.
 
Chances are he is just trying to rip you off. If it has SA stamped on the barrel shank I don't see anything special about it.
 
CIMG2278.gif

Okay, I moved that sight over and got to the range today, I lined up the other marks on the front sight, and the first round, yes the VERY first round, I blew the cap off of a mountain dew bottle at fifty yards.

I suprised myself to be honest..

I also shot a brake drum that was layout around at the range, amazing penetration... I have a pic that I'll upload later.

So now, my Mosin doesnt need the bayonet to shoot accurately :)
 
electronic bore cleaner

Hey,
I just joined the forum. Avid Mosin shooter. Anyway, I saw the post about the bore cleaner and I found a link to a really cheap one and made it. Patches came out clean before using then I used the cleaner and wow, what a difference. Here is the link; http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp
Look forward to posting pics of my Mosins. Have a 91/30 sniper that I just got and will be looking forward to shooting.
 
Diminishing returns

I made mine using a brass tube and a couple faucet washers. Used it on my 91/30 first and after the first 5 minute session no more gunk came out. On my M44, it took several treatments each lasting 10 minutes or so. The brass seemed to stop working but the barrel was still not shiney, so I thought that something went wrong. I replaced the brass with Steel, but still no more black came out of the M44. Another observation was the resistance. When I first started with brass, the resistance was near infinite without the liquid mix of water/vinegar/ammonia. On pouring in the liquid the resistance dropped to about 5 ohms. I used an old 12 car battery, and after a few seconds the mixture started to foam. On the first treatment, there was a lot of brown gunk as well as some green that came to the top. The rod turned black. When I disconnected the power source and measured the resistance it pegged the needle past zero indicating that the barrel was now acting like a battery.

I repeated this test several times each time pouring out the liquid measure resistance w/o the liquid then slowly adding liquid and watching the resistance drop to zero then exceed the zero point.

Bottom line is the Electro-clean loosens some of the filth, but not all. I think it is a good first step, but you ought to plan on using J&B bore cleaners, starting with the greyish green stuff then finishing with the red finishing compound. Even so I'm not sure one can get the inside of a MN to be shiney steel. So far, I've not been successful.


KKKKFL
 
bore cleaner

I'm sure that it will never be like new. I used an 1/8" steel rod from Lowes and just got a cork assortment from Hobby Lobby to plug the breach. I just dimpled the cork with a drill so the rod would seat and not touch the barrel and only 3 volts of electricity using a continuity flashlight. Made a big difference on my M44, will have to do it on the 91/30 next to see the results there. The M44 barrel was gleaming when I completed the cycle for 40 minutes. Maybe after trying it on several rifles I'll gain more experience with the results.
 
Electrochemical Bore Cleaning

I've got the Outers Foul Out II and have used it for years with great success.

My unit runs on three AA batteries or an external source of 5 volts AC. Obviously there is a rectifier in the control unit to turn the external power into DC. The label next to the external power supply jack says "5.0 VAC at 450 MA." Allowing for the 0.6 volt or so drop of a silicon rectifier, my Outers Foul Out II unit is designed to deliver 4.5 VDC to the rod/gun connection.

Outers sells two separate solutions, one copper and one for lead. I have no idea of the chemical composition of either.

The instructions point out that the electoplating action only works for metals, and any powder, carbon, etc. fouling must be removed with a brush and conventional cleaning solvents.

Now I know zilch about electroplating but I would personally be wary to exceed six volts DC for very long. Can you plate part of your bore to the rod at high voltages? Perhaps someone on here can tell us.

For those of you "rolling your own" cleaner, I thought the above information from the Foul Out II manual might help.
 
I can only report what I've seen come out of mine. Using the steel rod, and the ammonia/vinegar/water solution, and connecting up an old train transformer to drop the voltage back (2-4volts with a current draw of 200ma) The steel rod collected a very small amount of black deposit).
This was my second attempt, the first being the brass rod and 12v car battery.
I am trying to get the barrel to look silver shiney, and not bluish black, and while it is very clean at present, it's a long way from the color of the bolt.

KKKKFL
 
I just got my first Mosin yesterday at a gun show, and spent all afternoon/night cleaning it up and refinishing it. It's a M44 dated 1944 from the Izhevsk arsenal with matching serial numbers. It's looks like it's in good condition, there's no rust or pitting anywhere, the action is smooth, and there's no cracks in the stock. The only thing I don't like is the floor plate is a little bit loose, anybody know how to fix that? I haven't shot it yet, but will tomorrow. How do I tell if the barrel is counterbored?

I'm having trouble extending the bayonet, I tried and it just won't budge. Is there some kind of trick to it? Also, is there a particular way you're supposed to attach the sling? I'm not sure if I have it there properly. Thanks guys.

Oh, and here's a picture, I almost forgot.
M44.gif
 
Thanks, I can't believe I didn't figure that out. I was looking at it thinking that the way the bayonet sleeve and the mount interlock there's no way you'd be able to swing it out. I even wondered what the spring did when I was cleaning it, doh.

Is there a particular way you're supposed to use the stripper clips? I took out the bolt and tried to practice loading, but I only managed to get them to work once. I couldn't even get them to fit in most of the time, I'll have to order some of the original ones and see how they do.
 
Put your index finger on the tip of the top round. Put your thumb on the top round, so that your thumbnail is touching the clip.


Pull up with your index finger, push down with your thumb. You may want to make sure your finger nails are clipped first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98htc9z7ZE
 
Saturnine

Nice looking gun. I scubbed and worked mine over for a few days. She is no where as nice as yours. Nice job.
 

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Thanks for the videos guys, I'm getting it to work a little better now.

Nice looking gun. I scubbed and worked mine over for a few days. She is no where as nice as yours. Nice job.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Did you sand yours at all? I noticed mine had a nice grain but the original coating was obscuring it so I took it off. This was the first rifle I bought for myself and wanted it to look a little different than the million other M44's out there. You can't see it from the picture, but it still needs a bit more work, the tung oil dried a little unevenly and it needs a few more coats.
 
Two topics for the price of one

First the stripper clips I have run across are pretty flakey. My son and I purchase a half dozen and it took a good bit of filing to get them to work. Round the corners with a file and also take off some metal where the cartridge exits. They should slide out very easily when the clip is not in the weapon.
When you insert it in the magazine note that it pinches the stripper a little bit and this can make it impossible to push the cartridges down. Once you get it to where you can push them out with little or no effort it will work in the M44

Now second topic. A little ways back someone asked about accuracy they should expect. Here's a pic from this weekend. Shooting up the new case of Russian brass and comparing it to the Hungarian heavy ball. My 91/30 has the barrel corked, and I've made heavy use of J&B's rouge barrel cleaning compound. All shots were taken from a sitting position with the left elbow slightly ahead of the kneecap.

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KKKKFL
 
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I took my new M44 out to the range this afternoon. The rifle shot well, I had a few good groupings at fifty yards, I managed two into a hole the size of a dime while leaning on the bench. Unfortunately, my rifle had sticky bolt syndrome and it was really struggle to get the bolt open after firing towards the end. I'll check the chamber for burs and cosmoline tomorrow, if it's clean I'll have to get the headspace checked.

I'm going to go back through this thread and reread everything now that I finally own a Mosin.
 
I bought the m44 Big 5 special a few months ago, brought her home and cleaned her up real purdy. I finally got to take her out, had to wait for the snow to melt. On the way to the pit I stopped by the gun show and picked up a tin (440 rnds??). I put about 25 rnds through her, at about 150m, without any bench or rest, I should have shot some from prone, but most were standing or kneeling. I will have to say that I was impressed with the accuracy of the gun, my own could use some work. I plugged the 300m silhouette full of holes. That was all for fun, I'm hoping to get out this weekend and get down to business.
 
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Anybody know what that little box with the line through it means? My rifle has it as well, I assumed it was just someone carving on their rifle, but this one has it as well.
 
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