Mosins vs. Mausers

[KaiserBen]

"Big time apples and oranges. Find steel-cased laquer -finished 8mm Mauser. You can't in any quantity. So, there is no comparison to firing it. Feed a Mosin brass-cased ammo and extraction becomes a non-issue."

I have a 760rd crate of Romanian 8mm that is steel cased, and lacquered. It was delivered last week from AIM surplus. Decent stuff too, never had any issues with it, aside from it being a bit on the weak side for cycling the Hakim. And as far as sticking bolts go, I've had issues with my Mauser and Mosin having this problem.

 

[atblis]

Rimmed

What do you mean by switching bolts because of a rimmed cartridge? Switch with what? And what does the cartridge have to do with it?

Headspacing off a rim, as opposed to a shoulder. 7.62x54r is rimmed. Very obvious if you look at it. Perhaps less critical? You can have a much sloppier chamber, and it will still headspace.

Switching bolts between guns perhaps. Something that isn't generally advisable with mausers, but does sometimes work. That would be neat feature in terms of field repairs.

 

[44AMP]

Mauser vs Moisin Nagant

Having owned a number of both, I far and away prefer the Mauser. When comparing low budget milsurp rifles, there isn't usually a whole lot between them, other than my experience is that smooth bolt throw is the exception with the MN. Of course, old worn Mausers can have a bit of bolt wobble, so I think it kind of a wash. Good shooters of both are accurate, poor ones aren't, and the outside finish isn't any guide as to if it will shoot well, or not.

For the MN lovers out there, enjoy them, they are a good military bolt action. But Mausers are good rifles. I have or have had Mausers converted from milsurps in calibers ranging from .22-250 to .458Win Mag, which have equalled or surpassed commercial mass produced sporting rifles.

The same sort of thing is not practical (or even possible) with the Moisin Nagant. You can replace the stock, work over the trigger, even scope them, and they still are what they are. A clunky bolt and an awkward safety do not to me beauty make.

For a bad car analogy, a Mauser is like a VW that you can turn into a Porsche, if you want. A Moisin Nagant is a ...Studebaker. It gets you around, but you can't really do anything much else with it.

So, if you are talking milsurp rifles in issue trim for blasting up milsurp ammo, either is ok. MNs are cheaper today, because former combloc countries need cash, and they have a lot of old rifles for sale. 30-40 years ago, Mausers (and Arisakas, even Springfields) were cheap and plentiful. In those days MNs were scarce, and rather expensive, and ammo was difficult/impossible to find, cause the communists wouldn't sell us any.

I say Mausers are the better rifle, and sporting rifle design supports this. The style of locking lugs and the magazine design are Mauser, or derived from Mauser on the majority of bolt action sporters. Just because it doesn't have a large claw extractor, and/or has a spring loaded ejector doesn't mean that it isn't a Mauser at it's roots.

Moisin Nagants and SMLEs are fine military rifles, and can be made into passable sporters with enough effort, and I own several of each. But Mausers are just the best. Even the US Govt built our version (Springfield and Enfield)of the Mauser, not the MN, or the SMLE, or anybody else's design.
Not an exact copy, but the Mauser features are clearly evident. In over 100 years, nobody has come up with a significantly better design, although some features have been improved.

That didn't happen with the Moisin Nagant, nor the Carcano, nor the Lebel, not the SMLE, or even the Mannlicher. To me, that says alot.

 

[Stiletto Null]

I actually prefer the pseudo hogback of the Mosin stock. Straight-top stocks tend to beat my face up.

My M39 cycles extreme fast. Aside from that funky-as-hell sear click-over (which is why Mosins have that two-stage bolt lift), the Mosin action definitely seems faster than a typical Mauser. The actual forward and rearward strokes on Mosins seem to be universally faster than those of Mausers. (Open a Mauser, tilt the rifle back, the bolt probably won't drop back; it can and will, enthusiastically, on a Mosin.)

Sticky bolt syndrome tends to be from dirty chambers (cosmoline), not from lacquered ammo. Seriously, stick a lighter under a lacquered case sometime, and see if you can get it to get goopy. Not going to happen.

Safety? I don't no stinkin' safety! Is gun, is not safe.

Mosins can't really be converted to anything else because they are designed for a rimmed cartrdge. The magazine (with its interruptor and all) reflects this. Judging the merit of a rifle based on what it could be versus what it is strikes me as kind of silly.

Find me a Mauser which is definitively better than my Finnish M39. As in, one that can be cycled faster, and which is significantly more accurate. Seeing as that it's an MOA-ish rifle (using Prvi Partisan ammo...great stuff), the latter will be rather difficult.

 

[_N4Z_]

The same sort of thing is not practical (or even possible) with the Moisin Nagant. You can replace the stock, work over the trigger, even scope them, and they still are what they are. A clunky bolt and an awkward safety do not to me beauty make.

Huh? Funny thing, the Finns managed to pull that very trick off, and then some. M39. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and there's nothing awkward about that safety once your familiar with it.... and eat a little of Popeye's spinach.

 

[mole]

My Mosin rocks. My Spanish Mauser rocks. Between the two of them, though, I'd be tempted to pick the Mosin. I don't know why, but the long, slender rifle (yes, 1891/30) just appeals to me.

It's the same situation here.

 

[Cosmoline]

Oh yeah, a "studebaker" of rifles.

The problem is some folks proscribe their own personal shortcomings to the Mosins. So if they don't know how to use the safety or aren't strong enough, they blame the rifle. If you take the time to learn something new, you will appreciate the strengths of the design. A high end Mosin, like Hayha's M-28 or a well tuned pre-war Tula, dreads no Mauser.

 

[White Horseradish]

Headspacing off a rim, as opposed to a shoulder. 7.62x54r is rimmed. Very obvious if you look at it. Perhaps less critical? You can have a much sloppier chamber, and it will still headspace.

Switching bolts between guns perhaps. Something that isn't generally advisable with mausers, but does sometimes work. That would be neat feature in terms of field repairs.

It is true that headspacing on the rim vs headspacing on the shoulder allows for looser chambers. That is mostly a factor in the service life of the rifle, since the stretching of the chamber does not affect headspace.

That said, both Mosin and Mauser designs rely on the integral part of the bolt itself for headspacing, so random mixing and matching of bolts is not advisable. Mosin headspace is way easier to adjust, though. Bolt head can be replaced without taking down the bolt.

 

[silverlance]

my mosin

this is my m91/30 repro PU sniper.

it is very accurate, even with czech silvertip that's rusted green. I can easily hit a bowling pin at 100 yards, i can do it if i really try at 150, and if i was a decent shot i'd be killing coconuts at 200.

it is however an inferior rifle to Zaitsev's. this is the first time i've really taken a look at these famous pictures, and i can clearly see how the problems i have with mine would not be present in his.

you can clearly see how the scope is FORWARD, not rear like on mine. this results in a much more balanced rifle and makes it a lot easier to find the right relief.

it is also MUCH lower. thus, it is not necessary to balance the chin precariously on the buttstock.

oh, and it's a PE scope.

his gun was probably about the same in terms of accuracy as mine, but in the hands of someone like him..

i wonder what the legendary (possibly mythical) Koenig's Mauser looked like? was it a mannlicher, or mauser? k98 or k43? who knows.

 

[Cosmoline]

Notice how Simo used no optics at all. It's something of a radical notion that the greatest sniper in history never used a scope.

 

[jd46561]

Mosins ,Mausers , I like them both...so whats wrong with Studebaker.?..not a Damn thing!...

 

[ajax]

I've owned 3 Mosins(2 M44's & 91/30) 2 Mausers (M48 & Argentine 1891) and I really liked them all. Now that I'm a little older and God I hope a little smarter I regret like mad that I sold the 1891. That was a truely beautiful rifle. The M44 I currenyly have in my safe has the slickest bolt of all the others accept for the 1891. Damn I miss that one. So my opinion is I enjoyed them all and like my children I have no favorites. They all made and make me happy.

 

[DWARREN123]

I like my Mausers better just on looks (M48A-M24/47) than my Mosins (M91/30-M44) but just barely. I really like them all.

 

[B yond]

between a vz-24 mauser and an m44 mosin I prefer the mauser for both accuracy and the smooth action.