Soldiersurfs
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- Sep 25, 2008
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Not anymore. The 88 has had dual since 1990
Mossberg 500 & Remington 870 - pros and cons only
- Thread starter Dark&Good
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sillpapa
Member
In this instant if your talking New IMO it would have to be the Wingmaster 870 over the Mossy 500.
Not just for looks but overall performace & value. The 870 has a much smoother operating action.The
furniture aside the mechanics of the 870 has a slight edge. I own both & also have the Winchester 1300. All are fine Shotguns . IMO one of the best pumps the older Ithica 37 prior to 1980. Find one of those in good condition an restore it an you have a shotgun that is one of the best ever built. It all comes down to what your perfer & can afford. Remember your talking about some of the better pump guns out there.It all comes downto what you like . Buy it enjoy it shoot it well & have respect for all your firearms.
Not just for looks but overall performace & value. The 870 has a much smoother operating action.The
furniture aside the mechanics of the 870 has a slight edge. I own both & also have the Winchester 1300. All are fine Shotguns . IMO one of the best pumps the older Ithica 37 prior to 1980. Find one of those in good condition an restore it an you have a shotgun that is one of the best ever built. It all comes down to what your perfer & can afford. Remember your talking about some of the better pump guns out there.It all comes downto what you like . Buy it enjoy it shoot it well & have respect for all your firearms.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Much as I love my 870s, there's plenty of merit in the 500s.
Get the one that FEELS best....
Get the one that FEELS best....
throdgrain
Member
Because we get so many threads doing almost exactly the same questions
rantingredneck
Member
Buy both. .
Seriously, aside from the obvious control location differences there isn't much relative pro or con to either gun besides personal preference, or "feel" as Dave said.
For lefties the position of the mossberg safety is a definite plus. Then again it ain't too hard to reverse the 870's safety for a southpaw.
I personally like the position of the mossberg slide release a little better, but not enough to completely turn me off the 870.
Both great guns, both will outlast several generations of "average" shooters. If you are running thousands upon thousands of shells through your gun per year the 870 will likely last longer, but there are few that will wear either gun out.
. Seriously, aside from the obvious control location differences there isn't much relative pro or con to either gun besides personal preference, or "feel" as Dave said.
For lefties the position of the mossberg safety is a definite plus. Then again it ain't too hard to reverse the 870's safety for a southpaw.
I personally like the position of the mossberg slide release a little better, but not enough to completely turn me off the 870.
Both great guns, both will outlast several generations of "average" shooters. If you are running thousands upon thousands of shells through your gun per year the 870 will likely last longer, but there are few that will wear either gun out.
rantingredneck
Member
Mossberg chambers are steel too, it's the receiver that's aluminum. The chamber is in the barrel and is made of steel.
Youngster
Member
I think the 870's smoothness and durability trumps the Mossberg's better ergonomics, however if I was on a budget I'd probably go with the Winchester 1300/Speed Pump.
jjk308
Member
I've got a Remington 870 Buckmaster - 20 in IC barrel. One hole at 50 yards with standard 2 3/4 in slugs. (NOT the magnum or high power, they aren't accurate) It's still taking deer after 30 years.
Diverdave
Member
I bought my mossberg a few years ago. I was on a very tight budget. I bought the 500 combo. (rifled slug barrel and longer shot barrel). I could not be happier with the slug barrel. I get excelent groups at 100 yards with 3 inch magnum loads (with a cheap red dot scope). The smooth bore shot barrel I have tried only a few times. The foregrip is a bit noisy though.
SlipperyShooter
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- 95
Mossberg
I prefer Mossberg for three reasons:
1) Top mount safety (thumb instead of index finger)
2) Slide release behind trigger guard (easier to reach)
3) Price (I got mine for a ridiculous $189)
I prefer Mossberg for three reasons:
1) Top mount safety (thumb instead of index finger)
2) Slide release behind trigger guard (easier to reach)
3) Price (I got mine for a ridiculous $189)
Just a suggestion, the only slug I'd even consider using on a bear (even a small black bear) would be a Brenneke Black Magic.
Slugs are very overrated. Sure, they're very heavy, but they have terrible sectional density and most are made of soft lead. A 1 ounce 12 gauge slug actually has a sectional density equivalent to a 104 gr 9mm bullet. That is not good.
Black Magics are equivalent to a 143 gr 9mm bullet, so they're a bit better. And they're made of a hard enough alloy to not expand. Against a big animal like a bear, you do not want expansion.
Slugs are very overrated. Sure, they're very heavy, but they have terrible sectional density and most are made of soft lead. A 1 ounce 12 gauge slug actually has a sectional density equivalent to a 104 gr 9mm bullet. That is not good.
Black Magics are equivalent to a 143 gr 9mm bullet, so they're a bit better. And they're made of a hard enough alloy to not expand. Against a big animal like a bear, you do not want expansion.
Grunt
Member
RIght now I own a couple 870s and a 500 (though if I can find a 590 here in Eastern NC before I deploy again, I'm going to get one) and it's really up to personal preference.
I like the safety position of the Mosberg better but the plastic button can break so this should (and on mine has been) be replaced with a metal one like those from Brownells. The Remington safety button is metal but in some of the newer models, are the J-safety style that has been known to have problems. Again, this would be something I would replace if it were me.
As for the slide release, the Mossberg has it all over the Remington. It falls right under my middle finger and can be depressed without breaking my firing grip at all. The Remington...not so much. Short of having a finger like E.T. or some sort of orangatang, you are going to release your firing grip if you are going to depress the slide release.
Smoothness is something the 870 is known for. My Mossberg is today pretty smooth as well but it took a lot of rounds through the action to get it that way. Fortunatley I used mine to shoot blackbirds buying rounds by the case when I didn't have time to reload hulls so smoothing it out didn't take all that long. The forend on mine wobbles as well but I guess it never bothered me and it doesn't effect function at all.
Where I do see a very distinct advantage of the Mossberg is in it's inner workings. When I take a Mossberg apart, both the right and left shell stops come out and go back in with little problem, although it does take a little technique and finesse to do it. If I take the ejector out either for cleaning or replacement, it's a matter of turning a slot screw, no great mystery here.
On the Remington, it's a whole different kettle of fish. In order to replace a shell catch or extractor, it has to be staked in place and there is a finite number of times you are going to do this. I've seen some of the old 870s at work that date back to the early 60's that have had shell catches replaced over the years. Some were replaced so many times that the area of the receiver around the catches had been restaked so many times that they have one or maybe two more restakings left and then you are SOL and the weapon would have to go back to depot as unserviceable.
One other problem I've had with the Remington's design is in the shell lifter. Now both of mine are older Wingmasters with lifters that pre-date the flex tab on the current models. If a shell slips past the shell catch and onto the lifter while the bolt is forward, the gun is tied up in a bad way!
Now you can't open the bolt and the solid lifter won't allow you to push the shell back in so you are going to take the weapon apart in order to get the offending shell off the lifter and get the gun back in operation again. I've had this happen once when I was unloading it and a shell slipped past my fingers onto the lifter tying it up and after getting it out, I modified the lifter by cutting a slot in the lifter so if it happens again (and later it did just that by trying to unload it again the same way) I can use a knife blade or key to push the shell back in. Today, the 870 has a flex-tab lifter. If this problem occurs with the new lifter, simply slamming the pump to the rear tends to clear up this problem. However, the Mossberg doesn't have this problem at all. The lifter rides up against the bolt only dropping down when the pump is to the rear making this problem impossible. Granted, this problem with the Remington never came up while in actual operation but it has never been a problem with the Mossberg either be it while in operation or while unloading it either. Again, I believe this is a very definate advantage of the Mossberg design.
Where the Remington has another advantage over the Mossberg is in the aftermarket parts arena. While I've never been big into the "tacti-cool" parts some folks tack onto their weapons, for those that are, the Remington leads all others bar none in this area. With this comes a lot of folks out there that know how to work on them.
In either case, you aren't going to go wrong with either gun. The Remington is smoother, has more aftermarket parts available and people that are familiar with them while the Mossberg is cheaper, better controls and easier to replace parts in at the owner/operator level. Go with what works for you.
I like the safety position of the Mosberg better but the plastic button can break so this should (and on mine has been) be replaced with a metal one like those from Brownells. The Remington safety button is metal but in some of the newer models, are the J-safety style that has been known to have problems. Again, this would be something I would replace if it were me.
As for the slide release, the Mossberg has it all over the Remington. It falls right under my middle finger and can be depressed without breaking my firing grip at all. The Remington...not so much.
Short of having a finger like E.T. or some sort of orangatang, you are going to release your firing grip if you are going to depress the slide release. Smoothness is something the 870 is known for. My Mossberg is today pretty smooth as well but it took a lot of rounds through the action to get it that way. Fortunatley I used mine to shoot blackbirds buying rounds by the case when I didn't have time to reload hulls so smoothing it out didn't take all that long. The forend on mine wobbles as well but I guess it never bothered me and it doesn't effect function at all.
Where I do see a very distinct advantage of the Mossberg is in it's inner workings. When I take a Mossberg apart, both the right and left shell stops come out and go back in with little problem, although it does take a little technique and finesse to do it. If I take the ejector out either for cleaning or replacement, it's a matter of turning a slot screw, no great mystery here.
On the Remington, it's a whole different kettle of fish. In order to replace a shell catch or extractor, it has to be staked in place and there is a finite number of times you are going to do this. I've seen some of the old 870s at work that date back to the early 60's that have had shell catches replaced over the years. Some were replaced so many times that the area of the receiver around the catches had been restaked so many times that they have one or maybe two more restakings left and then you are SOL and the weapon would have to go back to depot as unserviceable.
One other problem I've had with the Remington's design is in the shell lifter. Now both of mine are older Wingmasters with lifters that pre-date the flex tab on the current models. If a shell slips past the shell catch and onto the lifter while the bolt is forward, the gun is tied up in a bad way!
Now you can't open the bolt and the solid lifter won't allow you to push the shell back in so you are going to take the weapon apart in order to get the offending shell off the lifter and get the gun back in operation again. I've had this happen once when I was unloading it and a shell slipped past my fingers onto the lifter tying it up and after getting it out, I modified the lifter by cutting a slot in the lifter so if it happens again (and later it did just that by trying to unload it again the same way) I can use a knife blade or key to push the shell back in. Today, the 870 has a flex-tab lifter. If this problem occurs with the new lifter, simply slamming the pump to the rear tends to clear up this problem. However, the Mossberg doesn't have this problem at all. The lifter rides up against the bolt only dropping down when the pump is to the rear making this problem impossible. Granted, this problem with the Remington never came up while in actual operation but it has never been a problem with the Mossberg either be it while in operation or while unloading it either. Again, I believe this is a very definate advantage of the Mossberg design. Where the Remington has another advantage over the Mossberg is in the aftermarket parts arena. While I've never been big into the "tacti-cool" parts some folks tack onto their weapons, for those that are, the Remington leads all others bar none in this area. With this comes a lot of folks out there that know how to work on them.
In either case, you aren't going to go wrong with either gun. The Remington is smoother, has more aftermarket parts available and people that are familiar with them while the Mossberg is cheaper, better controls and easier to replace parts in at the owner/operator level. Go with what works for you.
I agree with everything that I've read here. I recently acquired a Mossberg 500 because it was cheap ($165 used) and has a good reputation. I'd never used one. I must say I have really been impressed with the layout of the controls and the way the lifter works. But I'm also impressed that it is not as high quality as an 870. I had some grief with the plastic safety, (which was fixed easily enough with help from THRers, at least for now) and the plastic front sight bead had broken off (a $4 part that looks pretty easy to replace.)
I should say I love my Winchester pump gun. The safety is very convenient, basically right under your finger if you're keeping your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot. The release is pretty good, but not quite as convenient as the Mossberg. And the action is smoother/faster than the other two.
I think the 870 wins for aesthetics. And it probably has the best reputation for durability.
In other words, I don't think you can go wrong with any of those three.
I should say I love my Winchester pump gun. The safety is very convenient, basically right under your finger if you're keeping your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot. The release is pretty good, but not quite as convenient as the Mossberg. And the action is smoother/faster than the other two.
I think the 870 wins for aesthetics. And it probably has the best reputation for durability.
In other words, I don't think you can go wrong with any of those three.
Grunt
Member
When I was in the Marines in the late 80's, we had a few old 1200s around that were Vietnam vintage still in use (although they were being replaced by the M-590) when I was stationed in Italy. Now it could have been because we were originally trained with the M-590 but the Winchesters were never that popular with us. The slide release was small and harder to get to than the Mossberg but the thing that really got to us (me included) was the speed pump feature. I won't speak for anybody else but personally, I always felt like the pump was trying to shoot out of my hand when it fired. I remember saying "if I want the pump to come back, I'll pull the SOB back myself!"
Since then I've been thinking of getting a 1200 and dressing it up like the ones we carried mainly for sentimental reasons as well as giving the design a second chance. However at the present, I'll stick with either the Mossberg or Remington (Ithaca makes a damn sweet M-37 too) for serious work. Here's a couple pics of the 1200 as we were issued.
Since then I've been thinking of getting a 1200 and dressing it up like the ones we carried mainly for sentimental reasons as well as giving the design a second chance. However at the present, I'll stick with either the Mossberg or Remington (Ithaca makes a damn sweet M-37 too) for serious work. Here's a couple pics of the 1200 as we were issued.Attachments
Soldiersurfs
Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 92
2 Seconds? Depends on the round , how you handle recoil , how your aiming
RyanM,
There are slugs that are better than the Brennecke Black Magic. Check out Dixie Slugs... looks like those guys got really close to a one-shot stopper - from there on, it just depends on not missing the dangerous game completely. They have lots of test results and data that makes sense.
There are slugs that are better than the Brennecke Black Magic. Check out Dixie Slugs... looks like those guys got really close to a one-shot stopper - from there on, it just depends on not missing the dangerous game completely. They have lots of test results and data that makes sense.
1KPerDay
Member
Better than 39 inches of ballistics gel??
Virginian
Member
Mossberg; PRO
Much, much, much easier to count the Mossbergs on the firing line at any major trapshooting event.
Much, much, much easier to count the Mossbergs on the firing line at any major trapshooting event.
Boxing Buffalo
Member
Dark if you're worried about speed, check out the Winchester 1300.
I'm sure some of the more tech savvy people here know what I'm talking about, but they have some sort of double something or other that makes the slide go much much smoother than most other shotguns. I've got firing experience with all three we've discussed and I can say without a doubt, the Mossberg is the slowest, Winchester is the fastest slide.
Check some youtube videos on Win 1300's. It's pretty crazy.
Scooby, I have no doubt you're wooden forend feels more solid than my polymer forend.
I think the looseness I feel isn't in the forend but in the guts.
I'm sure some of the more tech savvy people here know what I'm talking about, but they have some sort of double something or other that makes the slide go much much smoother than most other shotguns. I've got firing experience with all three we've discussed and I can say without a doubt, the Mossberg is the slowest, Winchester is the fastest slide.
Check some youtube videos on Win 1300's. It's pretty crazy.
Scooby, I have no doubt you're wooden forend feels more solid than my polymer forend.
I think the looseness I feel isn't in the forend but in the guts.
Think I was misunderstood.
Is the 870 wood?
Is the 500 wood?
I've never seen either one in person.
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