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Mossberg: customer support fail, 590: left handed fail

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by RobV, May 6, 2011.

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  1. RobV

    RobV Member

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    Mossberg 590 with SpeedFeed Stock: left handed fail

    So I got a Mossberg 590 (with a stock SpeedFeed stock) as a gift recently...

    [​IMG]

    ....and brought it to the range to fire off a few rounds of (extra) high brass slugs (Remmington 1oz Sluggers, on right)...

    [​IMG]

    ....on a day I was pretty busy, but I still wanted to fire it because I was excited about it.

    After about 35 rounds, I decided I would quit because my cheek was sore and my shoulder was pretty sore as well. This is somewhat normal for me, but usually it happens after a lot more rounds. That is because I don't normally shoot slugs, and as you can see, these pack quite a bit of powder in them.

    My shoulder is also a little weak from surgery years ago, and a motorcycle accident last year. So when it gets a little sore, I ease off it. No big deal. Gun action worked great, it shot where I pointed it, I liked the angles, etc.

    My cheek, though, was REALLY sore. Again, when I hold a shotgun, I pull it tight against my shoulder, and I put cheekbone hard against the stock, so the whole thing is tight against me. The problem was the SpeedFeed stock, which apparently was designed for right handers, had a big hole and a sharp edge right where my face is supposed to be, when I shot the gun left handed.

    At first I just ignored the pain, but by the time I got home my face had swollen up like a bee had stung it. I thought I might have actually chipped a bone. 6 days later the swelling has gone down to the point where only I notice it when I smile, but I'm not ready to go back to the range yet, even if I find a new stock for the gun, which apparently what I need to do, since they don't offer a 'plug' to fill that hole in.

    Anyway, in my search to find an aftermarket plug, I saw (here and other places) where other left hand shooters experienced the same thing, except no one had a solution, other than replace the stock. I found this quite annoying since the gun was billed as friendly to lefties and decided I would fire off a complaint to Mossberg so they knew there was a fairly serious issue with the gun right out of the box that required an additional purchase to solve it.

    It read the following:

    ...granted that may be a little harsh, but I'm now faced with buying a new stock... and my face is seriously swollen, which is preventing me from going back to the range.

    A few days later I finally got the following reply:

    ...now, I don't know about you, but when someone tells you they possibly broke a bone using your product, you should ask them how they are now, first... not ask them to confirm their injury in the past. There should be some sort of compassion involved, even if it doesn't confirm or deny anything. That's just normal customer relations. I have no intentions of filing suit, I just wanted them to know what happened, why it happened, and how they might fix it.

    The second part, though, that they do 'not produce any left-hand models and [they] do not proclaim to manufacture left-handed models' is complete nonsense, in my opinion, so I wrote them back...
    ...now, in retrospect, I don't know if Mil-Spec 3443 actually said it needs to be able to be fired left handed, but I thought that was part of the write up. If that is the case, then that means they are saying this gun meets the specs, when it actually doesn't, when its sold in its stock configuration.

    But either way, they DEFINITELY show a guy shooting THAT gun left handed. And while a right hander might not notice something like that, a left hander does. And that image... along with "Ambidextrous, thumb-operated safety", and "The receiver-mounted safety is convenient for right or left-handed shooters" (which is written in the copy on other extremely similar weapons).... basically says, this gun was both designed and marketed explicitly to left handed shooters, and it was the deciding factor on buying this gun over other comparable guns, which were never billed as being lefty friendly.

    ...so I'm anxiously awaiting their reply, and thought others might want to listen in on this as well.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2011
  2. teumessian_fox

    teumessian_fox member

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    I'm a southpaw shooter. I personally would never fire a gun like that simply because I'd never be able to get a cheek "weld" w/the stock.

    But I'm curious. For tactical purposes, isn't it customary to learn to shoot the weapon from both sides? In case of injury, concealment, etc? What do they do then?
     
  3. quatin

    quatin Member

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    Can you put a cheek weld pad to it? My face hurts in general when I get it tight on any rifle with power.

    31Y9er7t-UL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
     
  4. RobV

    RobV Member

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    >I personally would never fire a gun like that
    Well, it was sent to me as a gift, and when I rested my cheek on it in my house, everything lined up, and while I noticed the indentation, it didn't seem to affect anything. Sometimes lefty work arounds might not be 'ideal', but I didnt think it would actually be a 'problem'.


    >My face hurts in general when I get it tight on any rifle with power.
    yeah, mine too.... but it's that kinda 'good hurt', usually... like when you lift weights; it's a pleasant reminder you actually did something. This was beyond that feeling. And my face swelled up to the point people took one look at me and asked me what happened. That is definitely not normal.


    >Can you put a cheek weld pad to it?

    yeah. I'm also just thinking about filling up the hole with some silicone, or maybe fiberglass or epoxy, and making it flush. Its shooting where I point, so I dont want to adjust the angle too much.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  5. grubbylabs

    grubbylabs Member

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    I would fiber glass it or epoxy it. I don't think I would use silicone.

    But I do think you have a legitimate complaint.
     
  6. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    Keep in mind that the guy in his vest and kevlar probably *doesn't* have his cheek on the stock. It's pretty darned hard to do that.
    Also, simply because there's a picture in some random catalog of a guy shooting lefty doesn't mean it's specifically marketed to lefties, neither is the tang mounted safety. It's like saying "lefties can drive this car, too!" Well no duh!

    I feel your pain, but that initial e-mail doesn't bode well for your treatment. 8) Respectful treatment goes both ways and some random customer telling Mossberg to "fire your engineer" is err ... I dunno.
    What I'm saying is if I was some random customer service person and I opened that e-mail what my course of action would be is to check for liability to Mossberg (which they did), express my condolences and advise you to buy a new stock without the hole so you don't hurt yourself anymore.

    I mean at a certain point I really do have to question what we as a consumer base expect from customer service.
    Can you outline what they *should* have done?
    Pull all of them off the shelves? Fire their entire engineering team? Give you a custom made Mossberg 590 for lefties made by a master gunsmith?

    Like I said .. I don't wanna down you ... but man. It's a Mossberg, not exactly a 13.000 dollar Beretta custom fitted with your measurements in mind.
     
  7. RobV

    RobV Member

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    ...and obviously I can buy a synthetic stock for ~$50

    ...I just don't think they should bill this as ok for left handers. For right handers, I'm sure it's fine because the other side has the hole much lower because they staggered the tubes to save space.

    But this stock should be an aftermarket customization. It should just come with a standard stock... or they should say, 'right handed only'.
     
  8. RobV

    RobV Member

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    >simply because there's a picture in some random catalog of a guy shooting lefty doesn't mean it's specifically marketed to lefties.
    First, it's not a 'random' catalog... it's the manufacturer's product page, big difference. And that is indeed there for marketing purposes. They want you to know it's a tactical gun.

    >"The receiver-mounted safety is convenient for right or left-handed shooters"
    Again, they didn't HAVE to say it was 'convenient for right or left-handed shooters'...but they did... not me.

    >Can you outline what they *should* have done?

    1.) they should have tested their product, recognized it's limitations, and either re-engineered their product, or disclaimed it, or at least not explicitly used marketing copy and images to promote it to left handed users.
    2.) Now that they are in production, they should take feedback such as mine, and fix the issue.
    3.) In the short run, they can create a plug to snap into the hollow area, to retroactively solve the issue.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  9. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    Again, simply because the guy in the picture is shooting lefty doesn't mean it's designed for lefties.
    You know what they tell you about SAWs and Lefties? "Welcome. Today you're a rightie."
    Why? Because you *can* use the SAW left handed. But that doesn't mean it'll be pretty.
    Or should they simply toss a kickass action picture because the guy they filmed happened to be shooting it lefty?

    What they said about the tang mounted safety being convenient for left handed users is true. In legalese terms they didn't say "the shotgun is designed for left handed users."
    They said, which is a truth, that a tang mounted safety is convenient for left handed users.
    My PT911 has an ambidextrious safety too, but it's not a weapon "engineered for lefties." Because if it was ... it'd eject leftward!

    Secondly, they probably did test their product, but their tester probably realized that that edge felt kinda funny on his face and modified his technique. Which is clearly not something you did.
    Should they take feedback and fix the issue? Sure! How do you propose they fix the issue of you not getting your face off the sharp edge?

    I understand you want to shoot a different gun the same way you shoot your other guns, but I simply can't say that I shoot all my guns the same. Not happening. Not possible.

    Although should I buy one of those I'd buy a plug too for the side I'm not using. Same as the plug on my Glock to cover the funky looking hole.

    So yeah, sorry to not be overly sympathetic, but having learned to adapt to different guns in the Army a little bit I am kinda a little amused. My opinion here ... remember ... opinion is that you're one stubborn goat and well ... I would have moved my face off the stock a little bit. O.<

    Okay. I'm done. 8)
     
  10. RobV

    RobV Member

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    >Although should I buy one of those I'd buy a plug too for the side I'm not using.
    They don't make one. I looked. I would have bought one.

    >"engineered for lefties."

    I have a Weatherby .270 that is truly left handed. I wasn't requesting something like that. I was asking for something I could shoot out of the box without modification.
     
  11. RobV

    RobV Member

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    ok, I just had a nice conversation with the customer service manager who apologized for what his staff said, and he offered to send me a simple stock at no charge.

    I then offered to exchange mine, because it was like new, and obviously of value to the vast majority of people who shoot that gun.... just not me... and that I'd pay to send it to them too. I didn't call them to get any free stuff or a tshirt. I called because they need to understand they weren't doing us lefties a favor by adding a fancy stock to the base model. Fancy stocks are modifications... and obviously, this gun is geared to as much stuff as you could want to put on it. But somewhere down under all that crap, should be a plain shotgun.

    I also explained how in the future they could just offer a plug for left handers so they wouldn't have that issue. He seemed to like that idea and that ideally you could just snap it in and out the same way you would a shell.

    He was definitely a good guy. Made sure I had his direct number, etc. He understood what I was saying. You want to be happy with a gun right out of the box and modify it if you WANT to, not because it might hurt you. And while I do agree you need to get used to any gun before it's really yours, when I raise my shotgun with a conventional stock, I want to hold it tight against my shoulder, with my cheek hard against the butt, because that is the safest most accurate way I can shoot one repeatedly. And the overall contour of the stock was designed with this in mind, and it compromised this when they decided to make an unsymmetrical stock, just so it could accommodate 4 rounds in an unconventional manner.

    Anyway, the solution for lefties might be ordering it with the base stock straight from the factory until they either modify the angle of the staggered magazines, or make a plug for the cheek rest on the right side of the gun.
     
  12. catnphx

    catnphx Member

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    Come on, RobV!!

    LOL ... sorry, this thread is absolutely funny. What did you expect putting your face on an opening in the stock while shooting slugs. :confused:

    Unless I missed it, you didn't accept any part of the blame and then you blamed Mossberg for advertising left-handed guns. :cuss:
     
  13. rc109a

    rc109a Member

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    I have went through this time and time again with my father. I find a nice rifle and forget he is left handed. Then I end up taking it back or extensively modifying it so he can use it. If the stock fits a Moss 500 and you want to sell it let me know. I could use one for work. Glad to see this worked out for you....
     
  14. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    Glad to hear Mossberg took care of you.

    I would have just replaced the stock. As the shotgun was a gift you'd only really be out the price of the new stock. I have the speed feed on my 590 and find it's usability to be marginal at best. I have done some work on getting to know it but would much rather use a belt mounted shell carrier. They are much faster and easier to use.
     
  15. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I feel your pain. Sounds like a great way to loose a crown. I personally would not put a strong cheek weld on a shotgun I'm shooting slugs with unless it is a single shot at a deer in a hunting situation.
     
  16. mustang_steve

    mustang_steve Member

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    Rule 1 of support (different field, same business) is to never even touch an issue that's out of scope.

    If they don't offer a left-hand model, that's the first thing to get out of the way. However a "I hope you feel better" would have been a good opener.

    Problem is a "I'm sorry you're hurting" quickly gets interpreted as a claim of responsibility by some, so sympahy is rarely handed out.

    ....just a little insight on the mess. Personally, I think a trade in discount on a dual-comb stock shouldn't be that bad a request.
     
  17. john81276

    john81276 Member

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    In fairness to the manufacturer, I believe they offer it without the speedfeed stock, so to say it comes on the base model might be stretching it.

    I also think it's a bit unfair to them that there's now a thread about how their customer service "failed" when in fact, they DID rectify the problem. Perhaps it would be appropriate to change the original post title to reflect that.
     
  18. Vin

    Vin Member

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    Hey, thanks for sharing this. I'm a left-handed shooter as well, so I know where your coming from.

    I deal with angry e-mails on a daily basis. Rants, blaming, or yelling rarely helps. You know what does? A short e-mail saying what happened and what I can do to fix it.

    If you had said something like, "AB broke when I did X & Z, I should get a 20% discount." Even if I don't believe your story and just so I can move on to the next issue, I'm going to give you a discount.

    Wrong photos and typos happen on websites all the time. That's why most sites have a privacy and TOS page. Heck, I recently seen a Microsoft ad in a magazine that had a Apple computer on it.

    If I gotten an e-mail like yours, I would immediately think you were the type of person that would file a lawsuit. At that point, I would refer to my company's legal department, then explain to you how we are not responsible and polity tell you to have a nice day.

    You can probably still get something out of it. But I would stop e-mailing. Instead, pick up the phone and call. Be nice and have an idea of what you want them to do. Don't worry about trying to prove your point, they don't care. Just tell them how they can make you happy. If its reasonable, they will probably do it.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  19. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    I didn't read the entirety of the first post, but as a lefty, what I did was order my 590 with the regular stock.

    If I had received it as a gift with the speedfeed, I would have just ordered the regular stock and swapped it out. I doubt the regular stock can cost very much, and it works fine for lefties.
     
  20. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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  21. Gato Montés

    Gato Montés Member

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  22. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

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    I don't know...it sounds to me like Mossberg has been more than fair here. Your first email gave them no real info other than that you were annoyed about something but never clearly told them what. Given that you gave them no real info, I'm not surprised their first response was to ask for information about what injuries you may have sustained. From the info you gave, it doesn't sound to me like Mossberg bills that gun as a lefty in anyway...the info was specifically about the safety which is indeed ambidextrous.

    I can completely understand your frustration. It's never fun to get a gun that doesn't totally work out (and I can only imagine how annoying it must be to be a southpaw in right-hand centric gun world). That said I've always found the best way to deal with any customer service is to clearly and calmly lay out your complaint (ie, I'm having X problem because of design feature Y, what can be done to fix this?). It's always worked out really well for me and when you approach the issue rationally and with as much detail as possible you can often shorten the time until things get sorted out (no customer service representative is a mind-reader and so if all they're getting is anger from you, they can't really help you). If they then blew you off after you gave them all the information, that'd be one thing, but it just doesn't seem to be the case here. I'm glad it sounds like it's going to work out in the end.
     
  23. Fleetman

    Fleetman Member

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    geez....I don't know about this one. I normally shoulder a firearm BEFORE I purchase it. I would have thought the Speedfeed port would be felt (and the anticipated result) long before I fired the first round.

    My son is a southpaw and we have certain firearms he doesn't care to shoot simply because they're not comfortable.

    35 shotgun slugs in 20 minutes?? And that's Mossberg's fault?? I believe Mossberg claims the shotgun can be fired left-handed which is true since you did it but I haven't seen any wording that Mossberg says it's comfortable to shoot left-handed, or right-handed for that matter after 35 slugs.

    I shoot a .458 Lott on a regular basis but just because there's 20 rounds to a box doesn't mean I have to fire all 20 rounds....I shoot until my comfort level is reached. I think Mossberg went above and beyond satisfying a customer who obviously purchased the wrong firearm for THEIR expectations.
     
  24. Fleetman

    Fleetman Member

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    Edit....I just noticed after re-reading your post that the Mossberg was received as a gift. However, I still stand by the rest of the stuff I wrote. Once you shouldered it, you should have anticipated what was going to happen.
     
  25. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    That was pretty much my initial reaction as well. I don't think you meant it that way, but I would have moved the correspondence away from written form (email) to verbal until more information could be obtained. Otherwise, it would have gone to the lawyers to deal with and you would not have gotten much "help" from customer service until directed to do so from the legal department. That is of course unfortunate, but we live in a world where there are so many people looking for a score and I totally guard against such scenarios even if I am in the wrong. Traffic accidents are a good example... you have a fender bender and it's my fault, so I own up to it and give you my insurance information and say I made a mistake (even if you did something unpredictable and the accident resulted). Next thing I know, I get sued for a couple $100 thousand. I already admitted fault and now it is a matter of "how much".
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2011
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