If the rifle is capable of 1.5 MOA in a machine rest, and the human in question is capable of shooting less than 1.5 MOA with any other rifle, the the human is more accurate that the first rifle.
Most accurate 30-06 factory rifle?
- Thread starter Gary O
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If the rifle is capable of 1.5 MOA in a machine rest, and the human in question is capable of shooting less than 1.5 MOA with any other rifle, the the human is more accurate that the first rifle.
LukeTheDrifter
Member
The new trigger in your SKS improved your ability to properly press the trigger. That is part of the human element, not the rifle's inherent accuracy. Different trigger lengths and weights can cause us to flinch or otherwise anticipate the breaking point. As far as the round exploding out of the end of the rifled barrel and where the round impacts, as controlled by the position of the barrel/muzzle before/during/after the firing process... The new trigger changed nothing about that, at least, as far as I can see. I'm totally ok with being wrong, however.I certainly agree with the gist of your post but this part I don't. I've seen some rifles that just plain weren't accurate at all. My SKS was not more accurate than me. That was proven by the fact that after I got my trigger fixed the group size was cut in half. So obviously I was able to shoot smaller groups than that rifle was at least until I got it fixed.
I agree that I like having rifles capable of shooting very tight groups too even when they shoot better than I can. And I'd like to own a sports car capable of going 250 mph too (Buggatti Veyron - proven to go 253 mph) as long as someone else was buying the gas for it.
I hope this makes sense.mod60rimfire
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Get an M1A and be a man
LukeTheDrifter
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While I never said anything regarding machine rests or specific MOA, I completely agree with the greatness of our freedom that you mentioned!!
Buy whatever the heck rifle makes you happy!!!SeekHer
Member
Take the list of all the rifle makers in the world, that make a model in XXX calibre and that will cost under $XXX stick the names in a hat and draw one...Congratulations you just found the most accurate or reliable or dependable or whatever out there.
There is NO SUCH THING AS BEST! There may be "better then" but not best.
Best how? Straight accuracy or does some aesthetics come into play? Are we talking BR accurate, sniper/tactical accurate--sorry, that's long range precision rifle not sniper or tactical or hunter's accurate? That's ¼" MOA, .5" MOA or 1.5" to 2" MOA.
You also didn't specify an action type! Is that for bolt or lever or pump or drop action? If for a bolt is that single shot or magazine fed? Internal or under barrel or detachable magazine?
Straight cost new vs. new or new vs. used? If new vs. new is that MSRP or street price? Does a top of the line custom job from the 1950s that you can pick up for less money count?
Synthetic oe wood stock? If wood--laminate or natural? We won't get into the level or quality of the wood since I've seen walnut blanks go for $10,000+.
You see, each and every one of those things has a significant baring on the final cost.
Any of the makers' rifles out there will be just as good as the other ones whether they're from Howa, Weatherby Vanguard (same thing), Thompson Center, Savage, Browning, Winchester et al...The most important aspect is which fits you the best--LOP, DOH, DOT, cast and of course weight...Which comes up to your eyes with the sights centered or if a scope with it completely clear--that's the one you buy--regardless of whose name is on the barrel.
Less weight means easier to carry but less weight also means more recoil...More recoil means maybe a flinch developing which will really screw up the accuracy of the rifle.
Next you'll be asking what's the best $350 scope to mount on it...Well, at that price there is no best there is just barely adequate.
There is NO SUCH THING AS BEST! There may be "better then" but not best.
Best how? Straight accuracy or does some aesthetics come into play? Are we talking BR accurate, sniper/tactical accurate--sorry, that's long range precision rifle not sniper or tactical or hunter's accurate? That's ¼" MOA, .5" MOA or 1.5" to 2" MOA.
You also didn't specify an action type! Is that for bolt or lever or pump or drop action? If for a bolt is that single shot or magazine fed? Internal or under barrel or detachable magazine?
Straight cost new vs. new or new vs. used? If new vs. new is that MSRP or street price? Does a top of the line custom job from the 1950s that you can pick up for less money count?
Synthetic oe wood stock? If wood--laminate or natural? We won't get into the level or quality of the wood since I've seen walnut blanks go for $10,000+.
You see, each and every one of those things has a significant baring on the final cost.
Any of the makers' rifles out there will be just as good as the other ones whether they're from Howa, Weatherby Vanguard (same thing), Thompson Center, Savage, Browning, Winchester et al...The most important aspect is which fits you the best--LOP, DOH, DOT, cast and of course weight...Which comes up to your eyes with the sights centered or if a scope with it completely clear--that's the one you buy--regardless of whose name is on the barrel.
Less weight means easier to carry but less weight also means more recoil...More recoil means maybe a flinch developing which will really screw up the accuracy of the rifle.
Next you'll be asking what's the best $350 scope to mount on it...Well, at that price there is no best there is just barely adequate.
USSR
Member
That's great, but that's not what was implied. The exact quote was: "A Savage, out of the box, will be far more accurate than the human shooting it". The "it" at the end of the quote and my response to it, implies that it is the very same rifle, not some other rifle or the in-general shooting ability of the shooter. So, we are talking about the physical accuracy limitations of a particular rifle vs. taking those accuracy limitations and adding the human element in the form of a shooter of the same rifle. The very best shooters can wring out all that a particular rifle is capable of, but they simply cannot exceed what a rifle is mechanically capable of. That was my point.
Don
just about any rifle you have heard good things about will serve you well as far as accuracy goes, from my (limited) experience.
I will admit that the next thing I say is pure regurgitation, but: any quality bolt gun from the $200-800 range are mostly all made the same, apparently. I have seen people post almost identical groups from almost any gun you can find at Walmart or sportsman's outlet listed in this topic.
IMO, get a Stevens or any $300ish bolt gun with a good reputation and use the money to build on it, and grab a good (very, very good, if you use the rest of your budget) scope.
I will admit that the next thing I say is pure regurgitation, but: any quality bolt gun from the $200-800 range are mostly all made the same, apparently. I have seen people post almost identical groups from almost any gun you can find at Walmart or sportsman's outlet listed in this topic.
IMO, get a Stevens or any $300ish bolt gun with a good reputation and use the money to build on it, and grab a good (very, very good, if you use the rest of your budget) scope.
Sheepdog1968
Member
Quote from SeekHer:
"There is NO SUCH THING AS BEST! There may be "better then" but not best. ... Any of the makers' rifles out there will be just as good as the other ones ..."
These are very wise words.
There is a book I read called Paradox Of Choice (kind of boring and repetive). The search for "the best" often makes us feel much less satisified no matter what we get. There is lots of data to back this up. We are much better off asking what is good or what is adequate.
After reading the book, it explained a lot of the frustration I had with things such as buying a new car. You would think getting a new car would be a fun experience. I hated the whole process until I finally decided what I wanted.
"There is NO SUCH THING AS BEST! There may be "better then" but not best. ... Any of the makers' rifles out there will be just as good as the other ones ..."
These are very wise words.
There is a book I read called Paradox Of Choice (kind of boring and repetive). The search for "the best" often makes us feel much less satisified no matter what we get. There is lots of data to back this up. We are much better off asking what is good or what is adequate.
After reading the book, it explained a lot of the frustration I had with things such as buying a new car. You would think getting a new car would be a fun experience. I hated the whole process until I finally decided what I wanted.
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SeekHer
Member
Maybe I should have put this <<Danger--sarcasm alert>> after the first paragraph.
Bolt action--single shot or magazine (S/S is usually more accurate--stiffer)? Internal magazine or detachable box? Internal magazine--hinged floor plate, fixed or none?
Is that $750 New or used? New is that MSRP or street? If used--does that include optics or not? How old will you go--1990s, 1970s, 1950s, 1930s? What condition will you accept? Rifle in fairly pristine condition or can beat up wood (scratches) and finish worn off be considered?
Would you take a really beat up cosmetically but still technically superior custom Dannier from the 1930s and 40s (today's equivalent price $30,000) using a M17 action with an all steel Weaver 3x Alaskan (c.1950s) scope for $350 less and with maybe ten hours worth of labour and $30 worth of sandpaper and tung oil to get it into great shape? I just found and finished one for my brother in .257 Roberts but using a P14 action.
The point I was making is that there is no such thing as The Best of Anything since there are so many unnamed variables and the parameters vary for each person...Is the Weatherby Vanguard a better rifle then the Huglu since the Vanguard is just a Huglu with a shinier stock? Is the CZ Ringneck SxS shotgun a better gun then the Huglu that it actually is just because it doesn't have the Huglu label on it?
The question is completely subjective and there can't be a correct answer!
I truly hate these types of questions--excluding the fact they have been covered ad nauseum they are inane, ambiguous and trite!
Lloyd Smale
Member
ive got one of the cheap sps rem model 700s that will shoot 150 hornadys into a 1/2 to 3/4 inch not 3 shot but 5 shots at a 100 yards . Not bad for a 500 dollar gun. It shot so well that i fitted a take off cdl stock to it so it would look as good as it shot.
I own several CZ rifles in various calibers and each is a tack driver. Some CZ rifles come with a "set" trigger which is fun at the range, but impractical for most hunting scenarios, in my opinion. These rifles amazed the American market due to the excellent accuracy and quality versus the price. Yes, I do own Winchester, Remington, Savage and one Weatherby. I love them all, but the CZ firearms line has earned first place on the hit parade.
I do not believe you can beat the CZ firearms for craftsmanship. I also own a .40 and .45 pistol made by them and out-shoot some folks with their Kimbers, etc. costing much more.
Frankly, I have always loved firearms and have owned a bunch. Been shooting for over 50 years and the quality of guns, ammo, scopes, etc. has NEVER been better than at the present time.
I do not believe you can beat the CZ firearms for craftsmanship. I also own a .40 and .45 pistol made by them and out-shoot some folks with their Kimbers, etc. costing much more.
Frankly, I have always loved firearms and have owned a bunch. Been shooting for over 50 years and the quality of guns, ammo, scopes, etc. has NEVER been better than at the present time.
Again, let's take a look at what the OP actually asked:
Most accurate. Bolt action. Factory out of the box for under $750.
So it seems that OP's priorities are pretty clear. Accuracy in a bolt action is pretty explicit. I think one could reasonably infer that "factory out of the box" means new and that he intends to deal with the scope separately, although the last point is less clear.
As far as the other details that seem to be distracting you so much such as magazine type, Vanguard vs. Howa (not Huglu), stock finish, etc, I think it's fair to say that the OP doesn't care. He didn't ask for "best", he just wants a recommendation for an accurate bolt action 30-06.
I'd recommend a Tikka T3.
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In my experience the Tikka is the most accurate "out of the box" My Superlite in 06 shoots well under 1" with factory ammo. It's very light weight, stainless/synthetic, and I expect I'll hunt with it a lot.
That said, it's a little boring buying a rifle and not having any reason to work up a load it likes, bed and/or float, trigger jobs, etc...
That said, it's a little boring buying a rifle and not having any reason to work up a load it likes, bed and/or float, trigger jobs, etc...
That sounds like exactly what someone looking for an "accurate out-of-the-box factory rifle" is looking for.
I own both the Savage 110 model C which is about 28 years old with an old bushmaster 3x9 , and the Tikka T3 lite stainless steel. Both rifles are 30-06. My Tikka I bought about 4 years ago. Both rifles are accurate and I have no preference as to which I use for hunting. If it is a day which is raining or drizzling I use the Tikka because it is stainless.
BTW I have never found out which rifle the deer preferred to be shot with , nonetheless they got shot.
BTW I have never found out which rifle the deer preferred to be shot with , nonetheless they got shot.
JohnBT
Member
"I truly hate these types of questions"
You certainly put a lot of time into answering them.
"Any of the makers' rifles out there will be just as good as the other ones"
That hasn't been my experience.
To answer the OP, I would start looking at Howa, Savage and Tikka. Then I'd probably go buy another Cooper or something else pefectly unnecessary, but solidly made and reasonably accurate.
You certainly put a lot of time into answering them.
"Any of the makers' rifles out there will be just as good as the other ones"
That hasn't been my experience.
To answer the OP, I would start looking at Howa, Savage and Tikka. Then I'd probably go buy another Cooper or something else pefectly unnecessary, but solidly made and reasonably accurate.
Russ Jackson
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I have a Remington 700 a Ruger M77 and my son has a Marlin XL7 in 30-06. The Xl7 is the most accurate. For $300 dollars you just can't beat it...Russ
Four_Speed
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Buy three Stevens 200's. They're real shooters.
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