Most Accurate Bullet Weight for .38 Spcl?

[Tequila jake]

I recently installed Crimson Trace laser sights on my wife's S&W M10 and my S&W M642. I took them to the range today to try them out but unfortunately did not have enough time to get them sighted in properly. What I did find out, though, is that 158 gr slugs seem to be the most accurate in these guns. Firing 5-shot groups, off-hand, from 7 yds, here's what I got:

M10: Buffalo Bore Standard Pressure 158 gr HP: 1"
MagTech 95 gr HP +P: 1 5/8"
UMC 125 gr HP +P: 1 3/4"
Rem 158 gr LHP +P: 1 1/4" (8-shot group)

M642: Buffalo Bore Standard Pressure 158 gr HP: 1 1/2"
MagTech 95 gr HP +P: 2 1/4"
UMC 125 gr HP +P: 2 1/2"
Rem 158 gr LHP +P: 1 3/4"

Is this pretty much in line with what the rest of you have found, i.e., that the 158 gr slugs are the most accurate weight in .38 Spcl?

Tequila Jake

 

[ugaarguy]

158 grain bullets in LRN, LSWC, and LSWC-HP were the standard load for 38 special for many years. Model 10s almost always have the fixed sights regulated for 158s at the factory (or did, when S&W still did such things). However, the stand by target load (not plinking load) for 38 special is the 148 grain wadcutter, often with a hollow base. These tend to match POI of the 158 grain loads with same POA. They also punch nice clean holes in the paper. Every gun is different, but the S&W model 10 has been remarkably consistent throughout its production. Based on your 158 grain results, I bet your model 10 would really hum with some 148 grain WCs.

 

[Jim Watson]

7 yards offhand with a laser is not what I think of as the best method to test accuracy of the ammunition. I think there is a large element of chance in your rankings.

But I agree that a good quality 158 grain bullet is likely to be more accurate than a cheap light bullet, which is what you have. Likely but not certain, a friend has a 6" Taurus that is extremely accurate with 110 grain magnums, better than wadcutters or semiwadcutters.

 

[ojibweindian]

My experience with .38 Special in a 4" 586 is that the 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter from Remington prints well at 25 yards. About 1.5" using 4.5 grains of Unique and a WSP primer. Very sweet shooting load.

 

[Gordon]

148 hollow base wadcutters have proven again and again the most accurate .38 spl bullet. The load must be kept light however as about 900fps in a 6" barrel and the skirt starts flaring and ruins the accuracy.

 

[MCgunner]

Odd. The skirt flaring is how Minie balls are SUPPOSED to work. Well, most store bought HBWCs are very soft lead and will lead the barrel if pushed too hard. I cast my own WCs, not hollow based, but they rival HBWCs for accuracy. I push 'em with 2.7 grains Bullseye, sort of a standard load. They'll shoot as accurate as I can use the gun/sight combination, generally about 1" at 25 yards with my 4" Taurus 66 or my 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk, about 1.5" at 25 with my 4" HB Smith and Wesson M10. Sights are a little more crude on that gun or it might do a little better.

The single most accurate factory load I've ever fired were Remington 148 grain HBWCs. Those things are tack drivers. I shoot a lot of WCs and I've taken small game with 'em.

 

[Oro]

The skirt flaring is how Minie balls are SUPPOSED to work

Yes, but it works that way to provide an effective gas seal with 19th Century bore and casting standards. In a modern gun with tighter tolerances, this isn't necessary to get an effective gas seal. I suspect it ruins accuracy in Gordon's case because it is inconsistently flaring the base and effectively putting a random "fin" on the base of the bullet, but not a consistent one.

Tequila Jake - the most accurate handgun/load combination I have ever run across is a S&W "long action" M&P (the "pre-10" before 1948). With just about any moderate loading of a 148gr WC or 158gr SWC it can do one-hole groups off hand at 7 yards, no problem, even with the crude fixed sights (I don't shoot any other gun to this level of precision - I'm not that good). It's a great combination of frame size, load, and action. I think the S&W M&P/Model 10 is one of the all-time great handgun designs and seriously under-rated. I can't think of anything else still in continuous production for more than 110 years, but maybe I am forgetting something.

I bet with a target-level loadings, even those Buffalo Bore group sizes would shrink. But i don't know if you are trying to find accuracy or a SD round.

 

[MCgunner]

Yes, but it works that way to provide an effective gas seal with 19th Century bore and casting standards. In a modern gun with tighter tolerances, this isn't necessary to get an effective gas seal. I suspect it ruins accuracy in Gordon's case because it is inconsistently flaring the base and effectively putting a random "fin" on the base of the bullet, but not a consistent one.

Perhaps, but I'd think it'd start leading the barrel pretty bad by that pressure level.

Actually, a Minie ball is designed to be slightly smaller than bore so as to be easy to start and ram on loading. On firing, the base flares out into the bore for a proper gas seal. It has nothing to do with anything inferior in the 19th century. The problem was loading a full diameter bullet from the muzzle. Mine shoot quite accurately even with 120 grains of 2F pushing 'em. That's a very hot load. I normally load 90 grains, .50 cal Hawken. 90 grains is a little easier on the shoulder, too.

 

[KBintheSLC]

I am a fan of the 158g weight for the 38 spcl... especially in a snubbie. I figure that slow and heavy is better than a little less slow and light. They seem to be well balanced at the given rate of twist... maybe thats why they are more accurate.

I recently found some S&B 158g JSP loads that shoot great in my gun. Those may be my new carry load.

 

[rcmodel]

As already noted.
The 158 is the bullet weight the .38 Special was designed for.

The 148 grain HBWC or DEWC match load at low velocity is the most accurate load available out to 50 yards.

Beyond 100 yards, the Keith design #358429 170 LSWC probably will bring home the trophy as the most accurate long range bullet ever.

Bullets lighter then 125 grains have never performed at all well for me.

rc

 

[Oro]

On firing, the base flares out into the bore for a proper gas seal. It has nothing to do with anything inferior in the 19th century.

Well, the fact you had to ram the bullet down the barrel from the muzzle, and cast it undersized to do so is to me an "inferior" technology to breech-feeding tightly sized projectiles. The "flare" design of the Minnie, while a nice technological innovation, was still a stop-gap until better metallurgical skills and design ideas could make breach-loaders and metallic cartridge.

So what I meant was the overall technology was inferior to what we are talking about here in regards to gas sealing, not that a Minnie ball was inferior for it's time. The Minnie ball, as you and I know, was a hugely important innovation in its day.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

148 hollow base wadcutters have proven again and again the most accurate .38 spl bullet. The load must be kept light however as about 900fps in a 6" barrel and the skirt starts flaring and ruins the accuracy.

The skirt flaring in question occurrs outside the bore, either excessive expansion before it hits the forcing cone, or in some cases, contuing to flare after it leaves the muzzle.

The great problem with driving hollow base wadcutters too fast is the skirts can separate from the fore part of the bullet and remain lodged in the bore -- and the next shot bulges or bursts the barrel.

Use hollow base wadcutters only with very light powder charges.

 

[Moonclip]

For some reason my S&W mod 14-4 which you would think would like 158gr ammo the best or 148gr wc's likes 130gr fmj ammo a bit better.

Guns of course can and are individual as to what types of ammo they are most accurate with.

In most fixed sight .38spl's though I find as many others have that 158gr ammo tends to shoot closest to the sights.

 

[9mmepiphany]

my S&W guns do really well with the 148gr HBWC too...both winchester and federal.

my Colt Python seems to shoot the CCI 140gr JHP .357mag loading better than the 158gr slugs...might be the faster twist

 

[tactikel]

168 gr Keith SWC (Lyman mould) is the most accurate bullet for .38/.357 I have ever used (over 20k rounds).