Most common full power rifle cartridge in the world.

[Evil Monkey]

7.62x51 NATO or 7.62x54R?

7.62 NATO has been around since the 50's I believe. It served as a primary NATO round for around 30 years or so and was replaced with the 5.56mm as an organic cartridge but the 7.62 still served as a sniper and GPMG cartridge. Many countries over the years and into the 21st century have switched to NATO, even if these countries are not actually part of NATO. Many different weapons have emerged from these countries that use the 7.62 NATO round. G3, FAL, BM59, MG3, ss-77, m60, m240, you name it.

But...


The 54R soviet round has been around for more than 100 years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Soviets primarily used this round in SVT, SVD, PKM, Pecheneg, etc. In modern times along side the 7.62 NATO, the 54R was NEVER used as a primary rifle cartridge; that was what the 7.62x39 and 5.45mm were for. There has never been much of a choice of weaponry in the soviet 54R but the Warsaw Pact made MILLIONS and MILLIONS of these set weapons like the SVD and PKM. They're everywhere. Most are used in 3rd world hell holes, some are used by friendly nations. Either way, the 54R is seeing use.

NATO influenced nations continue to grow and start dumping soviet calibers to standardize on NATO munitions. NATO countries also have a more colorful array of weapons. The Soviet influenced countries pretty much all use the same weapons and when those weapons get old, they dump them in the conflict regions....and produce more weapons using Soviet munitions.


So which round is the most widely used in the entire world?

 

[Babarsac]

Of the two cartridges I would have to say .308 is more prolific. Weapons chambered for it have been used in every hemisphere for both combat and support weapons as you mentioned above. However, I think the 7.62x54 has lost popularity since it is used just for support weapons while 7.62x39 has become a more common battle cartridge.

my $.02

 

[Master Blaster]

A better set of choices would be:

.308 / 7.62x51
.303 British
5.54x39
5.56
7.62x39
8mm Mauser
.30-.06

arguably 7.62X51
.303 British
.30-.06
8mm Mauser
are the only full power cartridges listed here.


Of all of these .308 or .303 are/ were the most common.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Nothing comes close to the distribution of 7.62 x 39, not .223/5.56, not English .303, not Mauser's 7 & 8mm, not the Soviet 7.62 x 54R, nor 7.62 NATO.

I'd say 7.62 NATO outwieghs 7.62x54R, since there were allied nations (and non allied nations world wide) using the FAL and G3, not to mention rechambered Mauser rifles, where the 7.26x54R was only in mg's and sniper rifles.

 

[Afy]

Just based on the number of AK 47's in the world... I would vote for 7.62x54R or would that be 7.62x39?

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Just based on the number of AK 47's in the world... I would vote for 7.62x54R or would that be 7.62x39?

7.62 x 39

 

[Hoppy590]

id say 7.62X54r is easily the most chambered round ever. if i did my math right over 35 million mosins were made in russia alone.
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/RussianSovietMosinNagantNumbers.asp

that doesnt even count Chinese or E.Europeans. nor does it count PK's Degtyarev's, Draganovs all thier clones, hunting rifles or Aircraft weapons.

is it the most common today? probibly not. but it is probibly the most chambered centerfire round ever.

 

[Master Blaster]

I would have thought that .303 British would have given them all arun for their money, sicne the enfield rifle was issued to all of the Empire from 1895 or so through the end of the 1950's, and even into the 1980s in commonwealth nations, and was also used in their machine guns.

Any body have any stats on .303???

Here we go http://www.answers.com/topic/lee-enfield

Wikipedia has a page and they claim its second only to the mosin nagant in 7.62x54 in terms of the number of lee enfield rifles made 17 million. But I suspect that .303 ammo rounds made and fired on the battlefield out number the 7.62X54.

 

[hitman134]

+1 For 7.62 x 39mm

 

[RNB65]

He asked about FULL power. 7.62x39 is not a full power cartridge.

 

[_N4Z_]

54r

Hoppy, you've got it right no doubt. And the ammunition has been produced by many many countries too.

54R soviet round has been around for more than 100 years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Soviets primarily used this round in SVT, SVD, PKM, Pecheneg, etc. In modern times along side the 7.62 NATO, the 54R was NEVER used as a primary rifle cartridge;

54r was developed during the waning years of the czars. Designed 1891. It was used in the Mosin Nagant rifles by the Russians (and Soviets), the Finns, Chinese, and a multitude of other smaller nations. 54r WAS a primary rifle round, that is still used worldwide.

A couple American companies even chambered rifles for this round many years back. Winchester comes to mind, and waaayyyyyyy back Remington made Mosins that are still floating around.

 

[Hoppy590]

The 54R soviet round has been around for more than 100 years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Soviets primarily used this round in SVT, SVD, PKM, Pecheneg, etc. In modern times along side the 7.62 NATO, the 54R was NEVER used as a primary rifle cartridge;

wow. i missed he said that. just WOW

 

[Trempel]

I'm going to take a guess that the most common full power rifle round is a 30-06. If you can find a gun store in some 3-world country, it'll probably have 30-06 on the shelves.

 

[rockstar.esq]

First off, the 7.62X39 isn't a "full power cartridge" as defined by the original poster.

Current use, I think the 7.62 NATO hands down. FAL, G3, M14, to say nothing of the legions of hunting rifles, sporting rifles, and target rifles so chambered.

Historically speaking, the 110 years behind the 7.62X54R pretty much crushes any "come lately's". Given the surplussing of nearly everything that was ever originally chambered in 7.62x54R it's pretty obvious that it's not getting the use it once did. Too bad we can't get any of the Winchester 1895's so chambered (most produced caliber)! By the way, does anyone know why we can't get them?

 

[Evil Monkey]

When I said the 54R was never used as a primary rifle cartridge, I meant along side when 7.62 NATO came into existence. The primary rifle cartridge in the Soviet Union was the 7.62x39mm NOT the 54R. However, in Western influenced countries and NATO everybody used the 7.62x51 NATO as a primary cartridge for quite a while until the 5.56mm came into the scene.

 

[Hoppy590]

your not making sense. your compairing a 110 year old cartridge to a more modern nato counter part. then comparing that nato round to another nato round

simple facts between 54R and 51
Historicaly More guns made in 54r
WAY more ammo made in 54r
54r been in constant use for over 110 years and shows no signs of going away now.

are there currently more militarys using 51 rifles than militarys using 54r rifles? definatly. (rifles, not MG's)
are there more rifles out there in 51 over 54r? i dont know and neither do you. but 110 years, 2 world wars, a cold war and the "alliance" of most of the asian and Eurasian continent gives the 54r a HUGE lead.

I meant along side when 7.62 NATO came into existence. The primary rifle cartridge in the Soviet Union was the 7.62x39mm NOT the 54R.

well first of all. we never FOUGHT the soviet union whent he 51nato was around. we fought all kinds of puppet governments, and commie start ups. but not the soviet union itself. so we would have been fighting the Soviet unions hand me downs, both literal and figurative. (old USSR rifles and thier Combloc equivants)

54r (rifle) vs. 51nato- See, Korea(*), Vietnam, Afghanistan.

* unsure on N. koreas MBR at the time, chinese entered in 1950. before the official adoption of the Type 53 carbine ( chinese made M44). however i have NO DOUBT that the USSR would have poored MASSIVE amounts of its old Mosins into this fight, since they addopted the SKS in 45 and AK in 47.

 

[Evil Monkey]

Man I should have been more specific. Which of these two rounds are most widely used TODAY. Today as in March 28, 2007, 2:23AM.

Seeing how most countries are already switching over to NATO, that kinda shifts the balance a little. But then you think about many 3rd world countries still using Soviet munitions.

I'll cast my vote and say that there is more 7.62 NATO being used today in the world than 7.62x54R. Final answer.

 

[Limeyfellow]

If we class it as the most common used today between those rounds it be pretty close, especially considering the amounts of machine guns that still use the russian round in use around the world. I might just give it to the 7.62 nato round though.

Historically the 7.62x54r blows pretty much anything else away. Followed probrobly by the .303 British or 8mm mauser. Then I would put the 7.62 nato and the 30'06 well behind the others as its pretty much rare outside the US while the first three have been used around the world in more countries than you can shake a stick at and for a longer time too.

 

[Dr.Rob]

They might have made 35million Moisin nagants but they didn't export them in those numbers, nor did they allow their populace to run around armed. Ditto with China.

Both countries and their satellites and allies have 'em stockpiled, which is why they are all over the US market now... but you won't "FIND" them in use since they were supplanted by the AK-47 that the soviets literally GAVE away.

I'd say since Korea/Vietnam, the only thing keeping 7.62x54 around was the MG's.

You indeed might find a .303 or 8mm still in use in, say Africa, alongside the AK... and you will certainly find 7.6254R machine guns... you won't find Moisin Nagants. But you'll find a ton of FALs and G3s. The Moisin was not the rifle of a colonial power, unless it was in the Belgian Congo.

 

[Hoppy590]

Both countries and their satellites and allies have 'em stockpiled, which is why they are all over the US market now... but you won't "FIND" them in use since they were supplanted by the AK-47 that the soviets literally GAVE away.

Somalia, 2000

others include Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Darfur, Kosovo, South America.

recent enough for ya?
not too long ago some one posted a photo of a bunch of (african?) women showing off thier arms. atleast a 2 were mosins.

theyre may not be a legitimate government left in the world that still uses 54r as a MBR. BUT WE DONT FIGHT LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENTS!!! the group most likely to be engaged are rag tag militias. armed with what ever they have.

the SKS was "supplanted by the AK-47" but its till prevelant in many armed services.

 

[Hoppy590]

what im trying to say is..

what official reconized militarys use is insignificant. because we havnt fought a legitimate military force in a long time. most "wars" are Trained soldiers vs insurgents/terrorist/militias/freedomfighters/genocidal madmen, WHAT EVER you want to call them. so who cares that the official military doesnt use 54r, the SOB's that are shooting at americans ARE using 54r. there maybe X number of G3's/FALs/M14's out there that are nice and new. but theres mutiple X out there that left Tula, marched to Berlin, back tracked to Chosin, headed south to Hanoi and are now in the sands of Africa or Arabia.

and its those guns, in the hands of amatuers that are dangerous, not the FAL's in european military Armorys, or the SVT's in a collectors safe.

yes a long time ago the AK became the weapon of choice for every Freedom fighter across the globe hands down. and there ARE probibly more 51 nato rifles that see use. more are found with fallen fighters, more are caught on camera. but how many rifles out there ARNT seen. how many are peacefully riding across africa with a tradesmen. how many sit behind closet doors waiting to defend a home. how many are in mogadishu waiting for the next time the americans return. theres just TOO MANY 54r that were made to say that 51 out numbers them. especialy in todays battlefield, where one minute a mans a farmer, the next hes a soldier.

do i make sense or am i rambleing?

 

[Davo]

Id say 54r, its found the world over. The Russians sent weaponry everywhere. Its been around twice as long as the AK47 has been around. .303 would have to be up there too.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Nice pics...

back in the late 70's early 80's there was a really good article in Gun Digest about the SMLE, showing numerous pics of Afghani guerillas armed with the ..303 alongside the captured AK... the 54R wasn't well used there, though it was mentioned (as anything could be had or made in Pakistan and sent over the border).

I'm sure the Moisin was sent out by the Soviets and Chinese (Korea, Vietnam) and to anyplace the reds flexed muscle. Thing is, by the time the reds were really feeling 'colonial' they gave away AK's. I can see how the Moisin might be useful to any army already using the 7.62x54R MGs: ie you have ammo on hand and in a pinch, hand out a few thousand rifles to a hastily assembled 'militia' to back your play in any number of backwater battlefields.

As for pics, I'm shocked at the places STG 44's show up. For a rifle 'never made in large numbers' it shows up in El Salvador, Iraq, Chiapas, Peru, Palestine, Angola, Somalia etc etc etc.

I doubt prior to surplus rifles flooding the US market say 30 years ago that most people here, including 'gunnies' knew what a Moisin Nagant was unless they'd encountered one in SE Asia. 7.62x54 ammo certainly wasn't common in the US. Though I admit, I'm warming to the idea that its far more widespread than I thought it was.

Now as for 'irregular forces' using the Moisin? Wouldn't doubt it. Wouldn't doubt that you'd also be fired on with 8mm, .303 and anything else they could get their hands on.

 

[Boats]

Having shot Mosin-Nagants, I almost feel sorry for anyone who has to use one as a primary arm.

Why does it matter which cartridge was more widely used, produced, or whatnot? I am more interested in which round is fireable from the best platforms, not the worst ones.

 

[Hoppy590]

hastily assembled 'militia' to back your play in any number of backwater battlefields.

yup. im trying to say that when the SHTF, and Muhammed Shmoe runs out of his home to join the militia theres a much larger chance they are running out the door with a red 54r, not a 51 due to the simple number of them that were probibly poured into the area. ( ignoring the AK)

Now as for 'irregular forces' using the Moisin? Wouldn't doubt it. Wouldn't doubt that you'd also be fired on with 8mm, .303 and anything else they could get their hands on.

thats what i was trying to get at. the people we ( as in the US military) often engage are irregular forces who ARE more likely to be armed with AK's over anything
BUT,between 54r and 51, the fact that most all recieved lots of recieved arms from the reds, and the MASSIVE number of 54r rifles on the market and thier low price leads me to believe that there are more 54r rifles that can be brought to bear