Most common SA barrel length?

[valnar]

I couldn't get my whole question in the description. What I wanted to know is what is the most common barrel length of single action revolvers back in the "day"? - Around the late 19th century when the single action revolvers were in their prime?

What is the significance of 4.75", 5.5" and 7.5" lengths? Is one more desirable?

I'm looking to buy either a Beretta Stampede or a Ruger Vaquero.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Preacherman]

The three barrel lengths were labelled according to their intended "target" markets (you should pardon the expression). The 7½" version was called the "Cavalry" model, as this was the barrel length specified for the US Army. The 4¾" version was called the "Civilian" model, as Colt thought this would be more conveniently carried by private users, particularly under a jacket, as many townsmen would. The later 5½" version was called the "Artillery" model, and was designed for that branch of the service, where a shorter, handier barrel was important to gunners who would have to serve their field-pieces and handle horse teams, and for whom a longer barrel tended to get in the way.

I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) that during the 19th century, the 7½" barrel was by far the most produced, partly for US Army orders, partly for cowboys and others who wanted the longer barrel for greater sight radius, better velocity with black powder loads, etc. Second in numbers was the "Civilian" version, with the later "Artillery" version coming in a distant third. However, I don't know what 20th-century production was like.

 

[valnar]

Thank you for that great explanation.

So which model was/is used most by those Cowboy action SASS society types?

ie. If there is a chance I would want to get involved in the future, which should I buy now?

-Rob

 

[Lone Star]

It's my understanding that the "Artillery Model" is a hoax. Those guns were cut down from 7.5-inch barrels by the Army in the 1890's to get a handier piece, and some were sent to the Phillipines when the .38 Long Colt failed there.

Although some were probably issued to artillerymen, apparently other troops got some, as well.

It was probably on the civilian market before the Army cut those longer barrels down. (They had Colt do many of them.)

The 4.75" bbl. dates from 1884, I believe.

I have seen original (19th Century) SAA's in a number of shorter barrels, all of which were obviously cut-down from longer barrels. The courthouse museum in Ft. Smith, AR has had a number on display, many taken from outlaws hanged by order of the infamous Judge Parker. I'm sure the demand spurred Colt to make shorter barrels. Bat Masterson is on record as having ordered some with the barrel cut even with the extractor rod housing. Presumably this was before 1884, or he'd have just specified the factory 4.75-inch bbl.

Lone Star

 

[MrAcheson]

If there is a chance I would want to get involved in the future, which should I buy now?

The one you like. This barrel length question comes up on CAS forums a lot. Some folks like the short barrels because they are quicker and point better for most. Some folks like the long barrels because they have a longer sight radius and stay on target better because of the weight out front. Some folks like the middle barrel as a good compromise between short and long.

CAS pistol ranges are short so sight radius isn't that important. Likewise quickness is good since time is score. Pick what you like though.

 

[Johnny Guest]

The 7.5 was probably the most common - -

- -During the "first Generation" production. As noted, this was the Army specification-length.

I haven't done any research on when the various barrel lengths were introduced, but I seem to recall the Wilson & Sutherland Book of Colt Firearms illustrating some fairly early ones with shorter barrels. Certainly, Colt was very forthcoming about providing almost any variation of any product, that the consumer would order.

Backing this up, and also illustrating regional preferences for various firearms - - - In July 1877, Texas Ranger Lieutenant John Armstrong went to Florida, tracking the famous outlaw John Wesley Hardin. Armstrong and other officers located Hardin on a train at the Pensacola station. Armstrong approached, drawing his long Colt SAA. Hardin glanced up and cried, "Texas, by God."

Apparently the easterners preferred smaller, more genteel (or at least shorter-barreled) ordnance.

Best,
Johnny

 

[Josey]

In the day, the powder was black and corrosive, the cartridges were not well made-balloon heads, primers were corrosive and would swell and the reasoning behind long barrels was so that the barrels could be cut off as they wore. The 7.5" spec took into consideration the wear from the poor cartridges. As the corrosive gases burned out the rifling and ruined the muzzle crown, the barrels could be cut, recrowned and placed back into service. Repairs could basically be done in the field and up until the ejector rod became compromised. 4" was about the useful life of a barrel, then the ejector rod could be dumped and TA-DA, a shopkeeper model! Models with modified by local blacksmiths ejectors were Sheriffs models. Colt was paying attention to this. They started marketing 7.5", 5.5", 4.75 ", 4". 3.5" Sheriffs models and 3" ejectorless Shopkeeper models. What created the 5.5" Artillery model was a need for pistols. Colt could not produce enough 1895 DA Army or Navy models in 38 Long Colt BP fast enough. The government had excess 45 Long Colt BP ammunition and POJ/surplus Colt SAAs in 45 Long Colt BP in storage. The armorers simply chopped the worn barrels to 5.5", ran the pistols through the shop and refinished/rehabed as needed. Most of these went to the PI insurrection theatre. They would stop a drugged Moro dead in his tracks. The 4.75" SAAs were popular for a cowboy in the brush and easier to pack all day. They weren't a gunfighter design or choice. CAS folks use everything! You even see the Buntline specials. I have had 4.75" 357s. I switched to 5.5" 44-40s for a better sight picture. I have Rugers and Colts. I strongly suggest Rugers.

 

[Hal]

valnar,
Might not have any bearing on your decision, but Ohio has a 5" min. barrel length for hunting (deer).

 

[BluesBear]

From all of the reading and research i have done in the past 40 years it seems to me that "back in the day" the Colt SIngle Action in 5½" was just a little more popular than the 7½" versions. It seems that in the late 1880s the 4¾" one started gaining.

The SASS people I talk to seem to preder the shorter barreled guns for a slightly faster draw.

Personally I consider a 5½"-6½" to be the best overall balance of accuracy and ease of carry.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well lets’ sort some of the history out …

The Colt model “P†or Single Action Army was introduced in 1873 and adopted by the U. S. Army as its standard service handgun for all branches – with a 7 ½†barrel. The U.S. Navy continued to use cartridge-converted 1851 Navy models – also with 7 ½†barrels.

The shorter 5 ½ and 4 ¾ inch lengths followed shortly thereafter – in 1875.

When the U.S. Army decided to reissue .45 single actions in the Philippine Islands at the turn of the 20th. Century all of the revolvers remaining in federal storage were refurbished – either by Colt or at the U.S. Arsenal at Springfield, MA. The process included shortening the barrels from 7 ½ to 5 ½ inches. This had nothing to do with the Artillery as such, but rather that they’d primarily be issued to officers and others who were armed with .38 double-action revolvers with 6†barrels. Shorting had nothing to do with wear, as worn barrels were replaced, and many of the modified revolvers had never been issued and were brand new in the first place.

The selection of barrel lengths by CAS shooters is seldom rooted in history, but rather the rules of the game, and “what everyone else is using.†Nothing wrong with that I can see. But for those who are interested in the historical aspect surviving guns and contemporary photographs confirm that in the old west the long 7 ½â€ length was the most common.

 

[Gordon]

So I wonder why Army and Marine Specs for the subsequent DA revolvers all specified 5 1/2" barrel length?

 

[Old Fuff]

I presume that the 5 1/2" length having been established as the length for .45 revolvers they stayed with it. The model 1911 pistol had a 5 inch barrel, but later model 1917 revolvers (S&W and Colt) continued on with the 5 1/2" length. Prior to the adoption of the model 1911 most, if not all of the .45 revolvers seem to have been intended for use in the Philippine Islands. It is noteworthy that with this exception .38 revolvers were not withdrawn until after the .45 pistols became common.

The model 1909 (Colt New Service/.45 Colt/5 1/2" barrel) were for the most part, shipped directly to the Philippines without the usual stopover at Springfield Arsenal. The first direct shipments of 1911 pistols in any quantity didn't occur until April 1917, although some might have been sent through Springfield Arsenal.

In any case the Army didn't originate the 5 1/2" length. All of the model 1873 Army's purchased by Uncle Sam's Army had 7 1/2" barrels to start with. Commercial revolvers were available as a cataloged item after 1875 and early guns in this length chambered in .450 Boxer were sent to England about the same time. I haven't looked into the question, but I wonder if these English orders might have been the first in the 5 1/2" length and they had something too do with establishing it.

 

[Jim March]

Dunno if this helps or not, but I have an interesting European military short-sword with a blade of about 19", of a type variously called an "Artillery Sword" or "Engineer's Sword". Date is so far pinned to between 1860 - 1890ish. Officers in artillery and engineering units needed a sword as a "symbol of office" but it didn't have to be a BIG one. And the one I have with a solid brass grip was obviously used as a field tool - you can still see the weird square impacts where somebody used the grip to pound 19th-century squarehead-type nails .

Anyways. This terminology associating the smaller weapon with artillery/engineering might have crossed over into the gun world during the same period...?