Most Efficient deprimer/sizing method + misc questions

[cardinalorange]

Hi,

I'm moving from reloading on a single stage, trickle powder "precision" rifle loading setup to a hornady progressive loader to reload 9mm (as well as continue with rifle reloading).

Couple questions:
* Are progressive loaders accurate (both bullet seating and powder throwing) to switch over on rifle reloading?
* Do you check/trim 9mm?
* Do you crimp 9mm FMJ? I was looking at a hornady seat/crimp die, but have heard some conflicting reports on whether to crimp 9mm.
* What's the most efficient set up to deprime and resize (without going through the rest of the stages)?

I typically tumble, deprime/resize, tumble, then continue with the cycle, so I'd like a separate setup for deprime/resize, but preferable with a case loader so I don't have to manually load each case. What does everyone use?

 

[labnoti]

I use a Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro with the case feeder. The breech lock feature allows me to spin on the decap and resize dies quickly, and the case feeder as well as the ejector on the press run through a batch fairly quickly. Although the Lee would be inexpensive as a second press, I think I would just use a Hornady progressive if I already had one.

I believe the newer Lee APP can be loaded from the case feeder but if I understand right, it does one die.

The Lee Classic Turret could be set up with a decapper and a resizer. I'm not aware of a case feeder for it, but there are ejectors. Will the ejector eject after two stations or do you have to cycle through four?

 

[Walkalong]

* Do you check/trim 9mm?
* Do you crimp 9mm FMJ? I was looking at a hornady seat/crimp die, but have heard some conflicting reports on whether to crimp 9mm.

You use enough taper "crimp" to remove any leftover belling from the shortest cases, which means the longer cases can get some slight inward movement, maybe .001. No amount of "crimp" can make up for poor neck tension, and too much can ruin what neck tension you had, not to mention the 9MM headspaces off of the case mouth.

You can use a progressive and still use your precision measure to dump powder, and seating in the LNL is perfectly fine, the oring inserts float a bit and help center things. If your brass & dies are good to go, the press part won't hurt you.

Welcome to THR

 

[mdi]

Progressive presses do make good accurate ammo. I believe 98% of the handload quality is due to the feller behind the handle.

I batch load so I size deprime as a step, then flare and prime, then charge and seat. I normally process brass up to priming then store them until I charge w/powder and seat a bullet. But I don't load on a progressive,

Powder charge accuracy depends on the powder measure, method of use, and powder used. Consistent charging method (speed, force and consistency) will give consistent accuracy in charges, but different powder type will meter differently.

I do not "crimp" any semi-auto ammo, nor do I measure/trim any. I use a taper crimp die to deflare, straighten out the case mouth for good chambering. I have 3, 45 ACP guns, 4, 9mm, one 380 ACP and one 32 ACP and my reloads work consistently well with deflaring and neck tension holding bullets in place...

 

[9mmepiphany]

* Do you check/trim 9mm?
Do you crimp 9mm FMJ?

I do not, because I taper crimp 9mm. I do trim .38Spl as I roll crimp them

* I was looking at a hornady seat/crimp die, but have heard some conflicting reports on whether to crimp 9mm.

It is easier to set, both crimp and OAL, if you Seat and Crimp with separate dies, but it isn't necessary if you are careful about setting the die up. I do it in separate dies because I Seat with a Redding Competition Seating die (which doesn't crimp) and I like to use a Lee Factory Crimp die when reloading 9mm

* What's the most efficient set up to deprime and resize (without going through the rest of the stages)?

The Hornady LNL AP makes this very easy as you can easily remove and install dies in position/order you desire.

I like to have prepped brass on hand to reload. I install a Lee Universal Deprimer in Position 1, a Resizing die in Position 3, and an Expanding die in Position 4.
When I want to make some loads, I just drop powder, check charge, seat bullet, and crimp

 

[Texas10mm]

You've purchased a progressive press. Use it that way.

I rarely wet tumble pistol brass. Generally I'll run it through the vibratory tumblers then load it. If it's REALLY dirty I'll wash it in a bucket to get that dirt off, let it dry, then run it though the vibratory.

Progressive presses can be more accurate than single stage presses when it comes to OAL. The Hornady powder measure is extremely accurate. Especially if you run ball/flake powders through it.

I've never trimmed auto pistol brass. I've loaded well over 100k of the stuff. I don't even bother to do a visual check. If it's cracked I pull it off the press and trash it. If it has a crimped primer pocket I pull it off the press and trash it.

I taper crimp, actually just removing the case bell, on all auto pistol brass.

I'm wondering why you're tumbling your brass twice? If you want clean primer pockets then just use a universal depriming die and deprime on you single stage. Then tumble, see above for pistol brass. Unless you're looking for those last two X shots on the 50 yard Bullseye line you're not going to notice the difference.

You talk about a case loader....ya should have bought a Dillon. The 650/750 is built around the case feeder. The Hornady is a kludge bolted onto the side of the press.

 

[cardinalorange]

@labnoti - 5, you have to cycle through the entire shell plate to eject. Not that that is an issue.

@9mmepiphany - So if you taper crimp pistol rounds there is no need to trim? Interesting.

@Texas10mm - Tumbling twice is what I do with rifle brass. It doesn't sound like it is as important for pistol brass, so I may just tumble then run through the entire progression in one go, see how it goes.

Do you guys use case lube in your APs on pistol ammo for the resizing stage? If so, how do you apply it with a case feeder? I've heard the "lay them on a towel, spray them, roll them back and forth and them dump in the loader." Is that the suggested method?

I found a "home-made" case loader for the hornady LNL that isn't the powered monstrosity that hornady tries to sell. I have a friend printing me one so I'm going to try it: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2488944

 

[9mmepiphany]

@9mmepiphany - So if you taper crimp pistol rounds there is no need to trim? Interesting.

With a taper crimp, you aren't rolling the case mouth "into" the bullet as much as you're "pressing it smooth". With longer cases, untrimed, using a raper crimp,the case mouth displacement is less critical...roll crimping could cause the case mouth the break into the plating or coating

Do you guys use case lube in your APs on pistol ammo for the resizing stage? If so, how do you apply it with a case feeder? I've heard the "lay them on a towel, spray them, roll them back and forth and them dump in the loader." Is that the suggested method?

I do because it reduces the effort by about 50%.

What I do is take 1-200 cases, put them into a gallon zip-lock bag, spray a couple of times, seal, roll, and repeat. The important thing is to pour them out to allow the alcohol 10mins to flash off before placing into your case feeder. I've always hear the towel method used with rifle cases

I found a "home-made" case loader for the hornady LNL that isn't the powered monstrosity that hornady tries to sell. I have a friend printing me one so I'm going to try it: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2488944

The second generation ones work much better than the first gen. The drawback with these case feeders is loading the tubes...gets a bit tiresome when loading a thousand rounds. With the factory case feeder, I can dump additional cases in as the number of cases in the collator is reduced

 

[Blue68f100]

I've been running the LNL-AP for over 15 yrs now. It fully capable of producing good accurate ammo. The powder dispenser accuracy will depend on the type of powder used. If you use a ball powder it will be pretty much, dead on. Use a large flake powder, expect 0.2-0.3gr swing. The same can be said for extruded. Straight wall brass shrinks unlike bottle neck brass, so no trimming or measuring is required. The LNL-AP can run 200-300 without a brass feeder, 5-600/hr with one. If you use the brass pusher to put the brass into the shell holder it will greatly increase you speed since you only have to set the brass in the general area.

As far as lubing the brass, it's not required if your using carbide/TiNi sizing dies. The application of Hornady One Shot will make the sizing smoother. It's one you do not have to remove afterwards. You must allow for the carrier to evaporate and must shake the can a good full min to get the wax in suspension.

 

[lordpaxman]

I load most pistol cartridges on a LNL. I use SS pins and tumble cases prior to loading, and just give them a couple shots of Hornady’s one shot case lube even though I have carbide dies. There’s less sticking during the whole process. I do not trim 9, 40 or 45. The crimp on these is just enough to remove the bell that’s needed for bullet seating.
I don’t load PR ammo on this press, that’s a single stage. .223 AR ammo is fine, at least for the 100-200 yard variety. Good luck!

 

[Dudedog]

I like to wet tumble my pistol brass so while it takes a bit longer I make two passes.
Pass 1
Resize-deprime, expand mouth
Then I wet tumble.
I hand prime the brass while I am watching TV, gives me a chance to look for the 9mm cases with the stupid ledge, and also toss and with crimped pockets

Pass 2
I have my press set up with
Station
1 Powder drop
2 RCBS or Hornady Lockout die
3 Bullet feeder - Hornady
4 Seat
5 Lee FCD

I never trim 9mm
You don't really crimp 9mm, you just remove the bell you put in the mouth to get the bullet in.
More crimp will not help neck tension, if you don't have good neck tension you need to figure out why.

 

[labnoti]

I use lubed cases in my case feeder on the progressive.
I spray Hornady One Shot case lube on handgun brass and let it dry at least 1 minute.
I only touch the necks with my fingers when using Imperial Wax on rifle brass which I do not body-size. Note that my press doesn't resize big rifle brass (it's the ABLP), just "AR" size cartridges.
Generally, I wouldn't hesitate to use lubed cases in the feeder because I either use the Hornady One Shot that is not sticky or a very light amount of Imperial Wax as it should always be.
Besides that, the Lee case feeder consists mostly of some simple acrylic tubes and a funnel-type collator. They could be cleaned with a shotgun bore mop or just replaced at little cost. I can see how some of the more sophisticated motorized collator/case-feeders might cause some concern with case lube mess, but I still wouldn't hesitate to use dry One Shot on cases in those.

I find the lube reduces the sticking, banging, and shaking on the progressive. My description makes it sound terrible, but all you have to do is try the lube with one batch of brass and see for yourself.

 

[mstreddy]

OP, one thing to be aware of, for some strange reason, Hornady's seat/crimp die in the 9MM set, (and possibly another auto loading pistol caliber) brings a roll crimp and not a taper crimp.
I use a Hornady LNL AP for 9MM and several other pistol calibers. For all of my pistol calibers, except 9MM, I load the rounds in one pass through the press.
For 9MM, as some here, I have found it smoother and less issues when I size in one operation, then another pass for the flare, prime, powder, bullet seat/crimp. I started doing this as I really have my sizing die cranked down in order to consistently size the brass down to fit in a VERY tight Lone Wolf barrel.
I lube the cases with One Shot, toss a couple hundred in a gallon zip bag, spray and shake them around, wait a few minutes, then take them through the sizer. And then once I have a few hundred, I switch to run the other batch.
Oh, and I ended up buying the Hornady Taper Crimp Seater die for the 9MM separately.

As to case feeding, I am just now playing with one of the 3D printed/Lee feed tube setups. I picked up the 3D parts from the Sell forums here. I've only tried in 9MM so far.

As to trimming, again, as many here, I don't trim for any auto loading pistol caliber.

And welcome to THR.

 

[Dudedog]

Hornady's seat/crimp die in the 9MM set,

Hornady has 2 9mm die sets (maybe more but in the standard dies)
546516 9mm Taper Crimp
546515 9mm (?? not taper crimp???)

I have 546516 which is taper crimp

 

[Dibbs]

The only Lee product I have is a Lee Handloader Press. It's great, for de-capping-resizing, in the evening, while watching TV.

 

[Toprudder]

* Do you check/trim 9mm?

Never.

* Do you crimp 9mm FMJ? I was looking at a hornady seat/crimp die, but have heard some conflicting reports on whether to crimp 9mm.

I do put a slight crimp on them, but not for neck tension, I do it to improve feeding/chambering in some guns.

* What's the most efficient set up to deprime and resize (without going through the rest of the stages)?

Well, for 9mm, the most efficient would be to resize and deprime at the same time, same station. But, for me, I prefer to deprime and then wet tumble. For pistol brass, I only tumble once, which is after depriming and before sizing.

I typically tumble, deprime/resize, tumble, then continue with the cycle, so I'd like a separate setup for deprime/resize, but preferable with a case loader so I don't have to manually load each case. What does everyone use?

Depends on whether I am doing bottleneck rifle brass, or straight wall pistol brass. As mentioned, I only tumble once for pistol.

For rifle, I decap first, then wet tumble without pins for ~ 15 minutes. Then I lube and resize, then wet tumble with pins. Then I trim/chamfer/swage. All of this is done on something other than my progressive press.

For pistol, I decap and then wet tumble. Then I run as normal through a progressive.

Do you guys use case lube in your APs on pistol ammo for the resizing stage?

I almost never lube pistol brass. The only time I did it was with brand new brass that was sticking terribly on the expander.

 

[mjsdwash]

I use a Loadmaster to load 9mm, and to size/deprime 5.56. My method is to lanolin spray a pan of cases, and run them through the machine. I then measure, trim and load on a lee four hole. For 9mm, YES crimp if your using mixed brass. I have had some scary setback issues with Blaser Brass specifically, but others as well. If using known brass, its not an issue. R-P is my favorite 9mm. Lube 9mm for a progressive. I never did in the 4 hole, but if you don't, you will fine lots of primer seating issues in most progressives. No matter how firm your bench is (mine will easily support the weight of a car) short of a 3/4 steel plate, there will be some flex, enough to move a primer from its seat from dry 9mm. Lubed 9mm is extremely easy to size.
I do not check length/trim 9mm. Straight wall pistols will not get longer, (unlike bottleneck) and I cant shoot well enough to see value in it from an accuracy point. Straight wall cases will shrink, and trimmers are generally to make them all consistent, not remedy case stretch.
Progressives can be very accurate for OAL. Powder throw is exclusively a product of measures, not the press. I am running Lee autodisks on my setup, and its 100% of the time .01gr accurate. These are extremely accurate, reliable measures, and if you can find on I highly recomend them. I think they may be discontinued, but I am not sure.
my setup for rifle size/deprime is the sizer/deprimer at station 1, and the other stations empty. Sometimes If loading a lot, I will use a trim die (others use the sizing die with the decapper removed) for alignment on station 2, and primer after sizing. I then use a WFT trimmer which works on primed cases. This setup words well. If I have to trim more than 50 or so cases, I will remove the sizer, and install the quicktrim die (it doesn't work so I don't use it to trim), and use the quicktrim to chamfer the cases quickly.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I use the universal decapping die before cleaning the brass and then use a wax while cleaning which makes the brass glide through a carbide sizing die, no lube needed. I then run the brass through the decapping/sizing die in station 1 to remove anything that could be trapped in the flash hole. You will need to lube rifle brass, I use the Lanolin/Alcohol mix.
Just remove the flare on 9mm, it needs the case mouth to index in your barrel.

 

[cardinalorange]

Thanks for the info everyone. Definitely helps clear up some questions... but of course things couldn't be simple. I was looking at a hornady LNL and had one ordered and they just cancelled everything because they can't get it in stock. So, now that I've thought and bickered with myself long enough I am thinking I might actually just get a dillon 750, since the majority of my reloading will be in 9mm. My understanding is that the Dillon is more precise, slightly faster when fully set up, but more expensive and longer to switch between calibers.

To get it setup for 9mm (outside normal things like calipers, scale, etc), all I would need is the press, the pistol case feeder, bullet dropper, extra primer tubes and 9mm dies- Correct?

Then to switch to a different caliber I'd need a bullet dropper conversion kit, case feeder conversion kit (if switching between small pistol to large pistol/small/large rifle), a caliber converson kit, and new dies- correct?

 

[9mmepiphany]

My understanding is that the Dillon is more precise, slightly faster when fully set up, but more expensive and longer to switch between calibers.

I have both a Hornady LNL AP and a Dillon 750 set up on my bench.

The Dillon is a bit faster, but takes longer to set up correctly. Once set up it is pretty consistent, but not as precise as the LNL because it is harder make adjustments. It does take a bit longer to switch between calibers and it is more expensive. The nice thing about the Dillon is that there are a lot of aftermarket parts available to make it run smoother

 

[lordpaxman]

To get it setup for 9mm (outside normal things like calipers, scale, etc), all I would need is the press, the pistol case feeder, bullet dropper, extra primer tubes and 9mm dies- Correct?

I do not own a 750 yet, just the LNLs, and would strongly suggest you first determine how many rounds per day/month/year you think you’re going to reload. If this is your first progressive, I would absolutely get the casefeeder, but skip the bullet feeder for now. Setting the bullets on the case mouth by hand is not a horrendous task, and lets you view the powder in the case first. I would also recommend either the Dillon powder check die, or an RCBS Lock out die. Good luck!

 

[Texas10mm]

If you think you need a bullet feeder then you should be looking at a 1050 or an 1100.

I can run 600 rounds an hour on my 650 with just the case feeder. I like having a RCBS lock-out die and having my crimp and seating in separate steps.

 

[cardinalorange]

Edit: cleaned up some of my typos
@Texas10mm What crimp die do you use? I'm trying to find a set of dies that do what I want and between things being out of stock everywhere and all the different brands I'm having some difficulties. I'd like to use the Lee Factory crimp die, but I can't find the correct 2 die set (decap/bullet seat) for 9mm. Everything I've found seems to have the seat/taper crimp as one or seat/roll crimp, and I don't know if there'd be issues doing a taper/roll crimp and then an additional crimp by the Lee die.

I'm thinking I'll run:
stage 1- resize (I'll deprime manually) (hornady 046516)
Stage 2- Powder (with a PEX- hornady 290030)
Stage 3- RCBS lockout
Stage 4- bullet seat (044144 or 044177 for seat/taper crimp)
Stage 5-Lee factory crimp.

The hornady die set I was looking at was 546515, which contains 046516 and 044144. This says it's a seat/roll crimp, which I doubt is what I'd want running a LFCD.

 

[Toprudder]

For crimping, you could just use another seating die and take out the seating stem. Adjust the die height to adjust the amount of crimp.

 

[Texas10mm]

I use Dillon dies.