koja48
member
Gotta go with rifling . . .
Most important firearm innovation
- Thread starter SwordRapier
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SwordRapier
Member
For your consideration
I know I started this thread. I and I have enjoyed reading what people thought. I would like to offer this innovation for consideration though. The Minie Ball was the first conical shaped bullet to find widespread use. The Minie Ball was designed slightly smaller than the bore of the rifled muskets because the Minie ball was slightly smaller that the bore of the rifle the bullet could be seated quicker than its round shot counterparts. The Minie Ball had a small iron wedge at the base that when the powder was touched off the pressure caused the iron wedge to drive into a hollow in the base to the lead expanding the lead and causing it to grip the rifling of the musket.
Rifled Barrels had been in existence for years but not used extensively in the military. It took to long for a rifled musket to be reloaded with traditional round shot. At the time of the American Revolutionary war some of the militiamen were self-armed with rifled muskets but the majority of combatants on either side of the war were armed with smoothbore muskets. At the time and with the tactics used, rate of fire was king of the battlefield.
This was the bullet that the majority of soldiers in the American Civil War were armed with. The bullet allowed for the use of rifled muskets; therefore, extending range and accuracy of the weapons. The Minie Ball is in part responsible for the horrific causalities of that war. In addition the Minie ball is the most likely ancestor for all modern bullets.
I know I started this thread. I and I have enjoyed reading what people thought. I would like to offer this innovation for consideration though. The Minie Ball was the first conical shaped bullet to find widespread use. The Minie Ball was designed slightly smaller than the bore of the rifled muskets because the Minie ball was slightly smaller that the bore of the rifle the bullet could be seated quicker than its round shot counterparts. The Minie Ball had a small iron wedge at the base that when the powder was touched off the pressure caused the iron wedge to drive into a hollow in the base to the lead expanding the lead and causing it to grip the rifling of the musket.
Rifled Barrels had been in existence for years but not used extensively in the military. It took to long for a rifled musket to be reloaded with traditional round shot. At the time of the American Revolutionary war some of the militiamen were self-armed with rifled muskets but the majority of combatants on either side of the war were armed with smoothbore muskets. At the time and with the tactics used, rate of fire was king of the battlefield.
This was the bullet that the majority of soldiers in the American Civil War were armed with. The bullet allowed for the use of rifled muskets; therefore, extending range and accuracy of the weapons. The Minie Ball is in part responsible for the horrific causalities of that war. In addition the Minie ball is the most likely ancestor for all modern bullets.
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Mark K. C.
Member
I'm going to chime in here and say that the optics that are available are pretty impressive.
MikePGS
Member
The assembly line. I would've hated to see us responding to pearl harbor without the use of such a thing.
SwordRapier
Member
I wondered if anyone was going to bring up assembly lines and interchangable parts.
Sniper Flash Cards
Sniper Flash Cards are the most important firearm innovation that I know of.
I'd hate to imagine what fast-paced urban combat would be like with those ridiculous slide rules that designated markmen used to use.
Sniper Flash Cards are the most important firearm innovation that I know of.
I'd hate to imagine what fast-paced urban combat would be like with those ridiculous slide rules that designated markmen used to use.
RKBABob
Member
The GLOCK "Safe Action" trigger mechanism.
jhco
Member
manual safties
then metalic cartridge
then smokless powder
then metalic cartridge
then smokless powder
MikePGS
Member
Right, I almost forgot interchangable parts. If it weren't for interchangeable parts, caliber wars would be endless. "Oh yeah? My .456 Mag is much better than your stupid .483 long!" This is one of the things I was taught in school that actually mentioned firearms
Telumehtar
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While I don't disagree that the cartridge is a huge innovation in firearms, I'm not certain it's the most important one. If for no other reason than some of the next generation firearms are now moving away from cartridged ammunition.
While not in wide use yet(partly because of production costs, and some working out the kinks in technology) you have the evolution of several weapon systems that will rely on caseless ammo.
The caseless ammo used in the HK G-11 is one such example. The Metal Storm firing system is another, and as we see Electronics and arms manufacturing begin to blend I wouldn't be surprised if the Metal Storm system sees scalable solutions or if other Electronic innovations help to remove cartridges from the picture. Keep in mind, that cost pressures and weight allowances make removing cartridges from the architecture attractive so I won't be surprised if cartridges end up going the way of the muzzle loader.
Like I said, we don't see wide spread uses of these yet, but should they become adopted in wide scale, and the cartridge reduced in use, then cartridges would've really had about a 100 to 150 year run, which from a historical stand point is barely a blink.
While not in wide use yet(partly because of production costs, and some working out the kinks in technology) you have the evolution of several weapon systems that will rely on caseless ammo.
The caseless ammo used in the HK G-11 is one such example. The Metal Storm firing system is another, and as we see Electronics and arms manufacturing begin to blend I wouldn't be surprised if the Metal Storm system sees scalable solutions or if other Electronic innovations help to remove cartridges from the picture. Keep in mind, that cost pressures and weight allowances make removing cartridges from the architecture attractive so I won't be surprised if cartridges end up going the way of the muzzle loader.
Like I said, we don't see wide spread uses of these yet, but should they become adopted in wide scale, and the cartridge reduced in use, then cartridges would've really had about a 100 to 150 year run, which from a historical stand point is barely a blink.
Deanimator
Member
The metallic cartridge.
It's possible to have a repeating firearm without a self-contained metallic cartridge. It's just not possible to have one that's not cumbersome and limited in firepower. Anyone who disagrees is invited to a duel. You start with an unloaded Navy Colt. I'll start with an unloaded S&W Model 10. The first one with ONE loaded chamber gets to shoot the loser.
The only alternative to the metallic (or synthetic) self-contained cartridge is to completely divorce the propellant from the projectile. This can be done either by:
Use of separate liquid/gaseous propellant tanks and projectile magazines. The problem with this is the complex and delicate metering system required. It's been mooted about for years. Still nothing.
The application of external sources of power to a "propellant" which in fact may not be combustible. Apply enough electric current to tap water metered into a combustion/expansion chamber and it'll launch a separately fed projectile at high velocity. The only problem is supplying the energy. Too bad there are no backpack nuclear sources like in "Ghost Busters".
It's possible to have a repeating firearm without a self-contained metallic cartridge. It's just not possible to have one that's not cumbersome and limited in firepower. Anyone who disagrees is invited to a duel. You start with an unloaded Navy Colt. I'll start with an unloaded S&W Model 10. The first one with ONE loaded chamber gets to shoot the loser.
The only alternative to the metallic (or synthetic) self-contained cartridge is to completely divorce the propellant from the projectile. This can be done either by:
Use of separate liquid/gaseous propellant tanks and projectile magazines. The problem with this is the complex and delicate metering system required. It's been mooted about for years. Still nothing.
The application of external sources of power to a "propellant" which in fact may not be combustible. Apply enough electric current to tap water metered into a combustion/expansion chamber and it'll launch a separately fed projectile at high velocity. The only problem is supplying the energy. Too bad there are no backpack nuclear sources like in "Ghost Busters".
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
I'll vote for rifling. From the straight grooves down the barrel in order to provide a "space" for fouling, to the idea that, gee, if 30 inch grooves in a thirty inch barrel work to ease the fouling problem, why not make the grooves even longer by twisting them along the length of the barrel?
"Holy cow, it's more accurate!" (Even with round balls.)
From there, it was but a short step to elongated projectiles, which had greater sectional density (so they would carry further), greater accuracy (so fewer projectiles would be needed), and which could carry a greater payload, in the case of artillery shells.
Without that increase in accuracy and without that increase in carrying power, there would have been little impetus to develop anything further in the same time frame.
I think interchageable parts would have been developed anyhow, disunirregardless of their use in assembling firearms, so I don't see that as being all that important in their conceptual development as firearms.
Terry, 230RN
"Holy cow, it's more accurate!" (Even with round balls.)
From there, it was but a short step to elongated projectiles, which had greater sectional density (so they would carry further), greater accuracy (so fewer projectiles would be needed), and which could carry a greater payload, in the case of artillery shells.
Without that increase in accuracy and without that increase in carrying power, there would have been little impetus to develop anything further in the same time frame.
I think interchageable parts would have been developed anyhow, disunirregardless of their use in assembling firearms, so I don't see that as being all that important in their conceptual development as firearms.
Terry, 230RN
SwordRapier
Member
You will have to forgive my ignorance but what are sniper flash cards.
SwordRapier
Member
Oh.... Sniper Flash Cards was a link. I checked out the link. Sorry still didn't help.
KINGMAX
Member
My .02 cents
Without a doubt: a) self-contained ammunition, b) groved barrels, c) manual safteys, that would be my three. Might even throw in smokless powder.
Without a doubt: a) self-contained ammunition, b) groved barrels, c) manual safteys, that would be my three. Might even throw in smokless powder.
Previously I said that the most important innovation was the trigger. But after thinking a bit more, I'd say that an even more profound innovation was the barrel. Putting the charge into a closed tube makes a much more efficient heat engine than just putting some gunpowder into a jug and using a ball as a stopper.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Primers and percussion caps.
And the assembly line.
And the assembly line.
jwr747
Member
lets go folks ,think outside the box. the answer is "drum roll ,please" the TRIGGER FINGER. jwr
usp9
Member
Then what do they use?
#1 The self contained cartridge
#2 Polymer
#3 CNC machines
I would not be so quick to rule out the cartridge for caseless ammo for like metalstorm or the g11 caseless, as both example weapons are fundamentally and commercially, failures. They reside as nice experiments that won't go anywhere for a variety of very good reasons.
Interchangable parts is a big candidate, since it allowed standard designs and standard calibers.
Primer and priming compounds are a big 2nd, since without them you wouldn't even have percussion caps or rimfires.
I think the minnie ball as the forerunner of the modern bullet design is a good third since it allowed rifling to be relevant and effective for armies.
Interchangable parts is a big candidate, since it allowed standard designs and standard calibers.
Primer and priming compounds are a big 2nd, since without them you wouldn't even have percussion caps or rimfires.
I think the minnie ball as the forerunner of the modern bullet design is a good third since it allowed rifling to be relevant and effective for armies.
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