absolute0
Member
Gotta be my Marlin 1894 .44 levergun...every kid should have one 
Most Politically Correct Defensive Guns?
- Thread starter Dionysusigma
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GunnySkox
Member
A cellphone or your keychain, clutched in your cold, dead, bloodied hands is the only thing that would be PC enough for the antis.
~Slam_Fire
~Slam_Fire
We know from jury research that gun appearances may influence simulated juries in some circumstances. The most important issues are to get a lawyer who is cognizant of these issues at trial and for you to keep your mouth shut and try not to appear as a commando gone wild after the shooting.
DelayedReaction
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PC or not, my evil black Saiga 12 is staying where it is.
Sam Adams
Member
Correct. Here's some good advice that I got at law school from my Crim Law professor, for when you are questioned by the police:
1) Shut uppa you mouth!
2) Call your lawyer. If you don't have one, get one - ANY one - since if he's not competent to handle a criminal case, he'll recommend someone who can do it.
3) Repeat #1, unless the guy in #2 says otherwise, and then only say EXACTLY what he tells you to say.
While it should not be your #1 priority in selecting a defensive firearm, I do feel using something like a Tec 9/Mac 10 clone for HD or such just sets you up for problems in court in some areas.
I read somewhere once that in the few cases where a class 3 weapon was used for defense, the case always went through more legal procedings than normal, grand jury, ect.
I read somewhere once that in the few cases where a class 3 weapon was used for defense, the case always went through more legal procedings than normal, grand jury, ect.
Kurt S.
Member
Long guns: Mid priced ($500-$2000) O/U shotgun in trap/skeet/clays configuration, Win 94 in .30-30, bolt action .22 rifle.
Handguns: S&W Model 10 4", single action "cowboy" gun (Colt Peacemaker clone, Ruger Blackhawk, etc.).
But put me in the crowd that says anytime, anywhere whether Texas, Alaska, New York, or Illinois that you use a firearm in self defense you better have had a good reason, and get ready for the fecal rain that's going to come down.
Handguns: S&W Model 10 4", single action "cowboy" gun (Colt Peacemaker clone, Ruger Blackhawk, etc.).
But put me in the crowd that says anytime, anywhere whether Texas, Alaska, New York, or Illinois that you use a firearm in self defense you better have had a good reason, and get ready for the fecal rain that's going to come down.
BryanP
Member
Handgun: Revolver. A .38spl +P.
Shotgun: Either a SXS or a blued pump action with wood furniture.
Rifle: Lever action. Thutty thutty.
Personally I keep a .38spl+p in the nightstand. Lever gun in .357 magnum in the closet.
Shotgun: Either a SXS or a blued pump action with wood furniture.
Rifle: Lever action. Thutty thutty.
Personally I keep a .38spl+p in the nightstand. Lever gun in .357 magnum in the closet.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I've never seen evidence that the type of ammo or gun used in a defensive situation had any bearing on the outcome.
If anyone can reference a case where it did make a difference, I'd be interested to read about it.
If anyone can reference a case where it did make a difference, I'd be interested to read about it.
campbellcj
Member
Around here, if you want to be "PC" you'd put a "Slow Children" (LOL) sign in your front yard and have a faded John Kerry sticker (still) on the back of the SUV/Volvo Wagon, plus a "Baby on Board" sign stuck on the door glass. 
More seriously, if you were trying to 'conform' to some perceived standard, you would want something like a Beretta 92FS and a Remington 870P. Or whatever your local LEO's carried. And you'd want to try to determine/use the same ammo as well.
I can't see why that would truly matter if things really came down hard, but clearly it wouldn't hurt, either, IMO. The main thing is to behave sanely and appropriately at all times...
More seriously, if you were trying to 'conform' to some perceived standard, you would want something like a Beretta 92FS and a Remington 870P. Or whatever your local LEO's carried. And you'd want to try to determine/use the same ammo as well.
I can't see why that would truly matter if things really came down hard, but clearly it wouldn't hurt, either, IMO. The main thing is to behave sanely and appropriately at all times...
Massad Ayoob has talked about certain cases where weapons or ammo choice has had a bearing on the case. While I do not 100% agree with all his writings it may be worthwhile to peruse some of his old articles from the Ayoob files about this.
There may be some truth to this because how many of you have heard of PD's, whom have the luxury of a great legal defense behind their actions, issuing guns that were perceived to be more PC. Some 357mag revolvers have even been purpously made in 38spl for this reason.
There may be some truth to this because how many of you have heard of PD's, whom have the luxury of a great legal defense behind their actions, issuing guns that were perceived to be more PC. Some 357mag revolvers have even been purpously made in 38spl for this reason.
Cowboy Up!
Nothing 'mall ninja' about a model 24 Winchester or Stoeger coach gun.
Most sheeple don't take a Single Action Revolver as 'seriously' as a Glock.
But Justin is right... I've never heard of a DEFENSIVE use of a particular firearm (ie weapon choice) questioned by a prosecutor (unless you count Waco... which is well out of a 'standard' case).
Now if you have watched and "true crime" TV you know there ARE cases where someone 'defended' themselves with a knife and stabbed the 'bad guy' 33 times and ended up in jail on manslaughter or sued to bankruptcy. It seems there IS a bias when using knives/bats/blunt objects etc by males who 'went to far' in an act of 'self defense.' So I'd say using a broadsword/axe/hachet CAN have disadvantages.
Guns are understood to be 'fight stoppers' anyone who keeps coming at you when you are shooting at them probably has bad intent.
Nothing 'mall ninja' about a model 24 Winchester or Stoeger coach gun.
Most sheeple don't take a Single Action Revolver as 'seriously' as a Glock.
But Justin is right... I've never heard of a DEFENSIVE use of a particular firearm (ie weapon choice) questioned by a prosecutor (unless you count Waco... which is well out of a 'standard' case).
Now if you have watched and "true crime" TV you know there ARE cases where someone 'defended' themselves with a knife and stabbed the 'bad guy' 33 times and ended up in jail on manslaughter or sued to bankruptcy. It seems there IS a bias when using knives/bats/blunt objects etc by males who 'went to far' in an act of 'self defense.' So I'd say using a broadsword/axe/hachet CAN have disadvantages.
Guns are understood to be 'fight stoppers' anyone who keeps coming at you when you are shooting at them probably has bad intent.
chopinbloc
Member
barrett m-82a1 would probably be the LEAST pc gun for defense.... wonder if i could convince them to make a carbine version? 
most pc? i'm guessing .40 caliber muzzle loading flint lock with a very long barrel. less effective/powerful = more pc.
my defense? g23 on me and mini 14 in the truck. mossberg at home. i second above posts. to heck with pc, i intend to WIN.
most pc? i'm guessing .40 caliber muzzle loading flint lock with a very long barrel. less effective/powerful = more pc.
my defense? g23 on me and mini 14 in the truck. mossberg at home. i second above posts. to heck with pc, i intend to WIN.
artherd
member
See, around here, the cops use ARs... Sometimes M-16s too.
Either one is a felony for a non-leo to own.
Want a PC gun? roll over and die.
I'll be using my Barrett M82.
Texpatriate
Member
I have no plans to become PC in my choice of HD weapon, however, for the sake of discussion I'll second those who have suggested a 12 ga pump action. I've heard it suggested that you could use a shorter barreled turkey gun and it's almost as tactically affective as a "tacticool" 18.5" barrel without having the stigma of a being a "sawed-off shotgun". "Honestly officer, I was scared for my life, so I just grabbed my turkey gun and blew him away." A magnum turkey load could do some serious damage to any evildoers I would think.
GigaBuist
Member
Amusing, becuase I was just thinking about this the other day...
I've got a fair number of EBRs in my safe, semi-auto pistols, pump shotguns, yadda yadda yadda. Stuff that makes DiFi wet her pants.
What's under my bed at night? A SxS coach gun in 12 gauge. No idea why, really -- it's just simple, and it works, and I know I can use it well. I have nightmares about double-feeds in an AR and such, so the SxS is 'comfortable' to me. The whole PC issue is a non-issue with me.
It'd make one heck of an interesting case for a prosecutor, now that I think about it, to make me look "trigger happy" when I've got so many non-PC guns about but use a SxS for HD.
I've got a fair number of EBRs in my safe, semi-auto pistols, pump shotguns, yadda yadda yadda. Stuff that makes DiFi wet her pants.
What's under my bed at night? A SxS coach gun in 12 gauge. No idea why, really -- it's just simple, and it works, and I know I can use it well. I have nightmares about double-feeds in an AR and such, so the SxS is 'comfortable' to me. The whole PC issue is a non-issue with me.
It'd make one heck of an interesting case for a prosecutor, now that I think about it, to make me look "trigger happy" when I've got so many non-PC guns about but use a SxS for HD.
I don't have to be concerned about PC, since there is a politically correct rifle available to me. It's Model "Politically Correct Rifle-5" (PCR-5) by Olympic Arms.
Technically not a "rifle", it is an AR-15 carbine design (short/light) chambered in 5.56mm (.223 works). But, most of you know this design already.
I believe that, if there is a reason to deploy it, it'll be under some level of urban necessity - anywhere from one BG at ten feet to chaos on the streets where long ranges will not be the norm. Of course there's a scope and a red dot for a bit of versatility.
Really PC, huh?
/IB
Technically not a "rifle", it is an AR-15 carbine design (short/light) chambered in 5.56mm (.223 works). But, most of you know this design already.
I believe that, if there is a reason to deploy it, it'll be under some level of urban necessity - anywhere from one BG at ten feet to chaos on the streets where long ranges will not be the norm. Of course there's a scope and a red dot for a bit of versatility.
Really PC, huh?
/IB
The issue is not whether or not the prosecutor directly brings it up. It whether the sheer appearance of the gun will influence the jury without anything being said.
Thus, the repeated statements that you haven't found case law or a case where the prosecutor said X,Y,Z may not be the only factor.
As I have repeatedly said jury research had found that in some cases (dependent on various factors) gun appearance issue effect juries WITHOUT the prosecutor saying anything. Thus, that doesn't get into the legal search issues if it happens in a case.
As far as prosecutors using gun appearance, when the DC sniper trial started the DA assembled the AR in front of the jury - wonder why he was doing that?
Also, if you research long arm purchases by police departments, you find the military appearance of the AR is a concern for them and brought up by the city government.
BTW, I have an AR but if I went to trial, I would want a law cognizant of this research.
Hope, the point - sigh - is clearer this time. It won't be though. :banghead:
Thus, the repeated statements that you haven't found case law or a case where the prosecutor said X,Y,Z may not be the only factor.
As I have repeatedly said jury research had found that in some cases (dependent on various factors) gun appearance issue effect juries WITHOUT the prosecutor saying anything. Thus, that doesn't get into the legal search issues if it happens in a case.
As far as prosecutors using gun appearance, when the DC sniper trial started the DA assembled the AR in front of the jury - wonder why he was doing that?
Also, if you research long arm purchases by police departments, you find the military appearance of the AR is a concern for them and brought up by the city government.
BTW, I have an AR but if I went to trial, I would want a law cognizant of this research.
Hope, the point - sigh - is clearer this time. It won't be though. :banghead:
Sylvilagus Aquaticus
Member
Scr** PC. I'm so tired of being PC and seeing it invade common sense thinking.
In a situation where I defend my life, the life of my loved ones, or my home, I'm going to use whatever I have closest at hand that will end the situation and the attack upon my person as quickly as possible. If it's a sock full of quarters, so be it. If it's an 18 inch barrelled 12 guage with a pistol grip, all the better. by gum, I don't care anymore. It's gonna get stopped, whatever the threat is.
Regards,
Rabbit.
In a situation where I defend my life, the life of my loved ones, or my home, I'm going to use whatever I have closest at hand that will end the situation and the attack upon my person as quickly as possible. If it's a sock full of quarters, so be it. If it's an 18 inch barrelled 12 guage with a pistol grip, all the better. by gum, I don't care anymore. It's gonna get stopped, whatever the threat is.
Regards,
Rabbit.
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