Mother and Daughter Slain in National Forest

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Dain Bramage

Dain Bramage

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Seattle has been abuzz about this since their bodies were found yesterday. They were found near the trailhead of a local hiking trail, in a pretty remote area.

They say that people should never hike alone, but pairing up proved to be of no protection in this case. Since it was a National Forest, they could have availed themselves of legal firearms carry, but it appears that they didn't.

It brings up some of the dangers (two-legged kind) of our recreation areas, and points up the danger of no-carry rules in National Parks (although this happened in a N. Forest).

The Seattle P-I carried the story:

Mother and Daughter Slain
 
They said the condition of the victims' bodies made it difficult to discern they were women
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The story makes it sound as if the bodies were in pretty bad shape for only having been dead for less than a half-day or so. I'm not familiar with that area at all, but is there a bear population there?
 
Well, I haven't heard from any of our family that live up there ... but I don't really expect to, either.

This sort of thing is sad. Very sad. I feel for the families.

Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens.

My wife and daughter wouldn't venture into rural areas on foot by themselves, especially remote wooded, mountainous areas. More likely with a group, even if small.

Lots of ways to get hurt in the world, in both cities and rural areas. Fewer witnesses around the farther you get into rural areas. Predatory humans seem to dislike witnesses.
 
Lou...

The folks that found them stated they they "appeared to be going to the bathroom" in a kind of fetal position which might indicate an execution style murder. Doesn't sound like a bear encountered them.
This sounds ugly...

Biker
 
Last I heard, they were still grow operations going on in N. Snoho/S. Skagit County. Of course, mobile meth labs are all the rage now too.....but it seems a little remote for that.

Idle speculation.
 
Seems strange that the hikers who disovered them at first didn't even know whether they were dead, but yet authorities could not even immediately tell that they were women. :confused: Sounds like some details were too gruesome to tell.
 
The story makes it sound as if the bodies were in pretty bad shape for only having been dead for less than a half-day or so. I'm not familiar with that area at all, but is there a bear population there?
Click to expand...

I doubt an animal attack would result in both of them being found dead together in this manner. However, there are a *lot* of animals that will feed on any dead animal left in the woods for any length of time. I suspect that the condition of their bodies was the result of scavengers more than anything. After reading the article though it sounds like it was only a couple of hours, and on a trail that popular I am not sure that there would be a sufficient amount of animals bold enough to hit them so quickly. The whole thing is pretty weird.

Incidentally, my mom (avowed anti at the time) purchased her first (and only) pistol as a result of our habit of camping in national forests and parks when I was a child. Even back then things could get pretty wacky with the strange people you encounter out there. Most of them were really fascinating folks, but others would make your hair stand on end.

Verlot is a *very* popular camping/hiking area this time of year. I have been there more times than I can count and its a huge area for Seattle hikers because its just a short drive from the city. I wouldnt describe it as "remote", at least not in terms of national forests.
 
Slain women

Latest news says Mother and daughter were found just off a trail in the fetal position. Makes perfect sense to me.

Enconter Bear on trail. Leave trail, can't get away, take up fetal position and don't move with hands behind the neck. We've all heard this many times.

Exception. No one explained this to the bear. I can see where this could happen and in daggoned short order. And with Bear knawing on your head it wouldn't take long to do a job that no one would recognise you.

My take on what I've read and Personally, I've seen bear sign in that area before. Haven't been in there since they began to introduce the Grizz several years ago. So it makes sense that this could have happened.

Just my Ole Opinion. Anything can be possible because you don't have to get very far off the road to be in the bushes deep. And there are crazies that live and travel about therebouts.

I feel bad about the families of these two and they are young. Says mother was 40 something and daughter is 20 something.

This is NO PLACE to go unprepared for the very worst. Even if there are hundreds of people that hike those trails and Lake 22 trail can be like a freeway on a warm sunny day.
 
Wether or not a person gets into a fetal position while being attacked by a bear is one thing. The possibility of *both* persons doing so seems unlikely since the bear isnt going to be attacking them both at once, did one wait their turn? More to the point, a person being attacked by a bear is going to get tossed around pretty good by that bear and would end up sprawled out rather than in a "crouched" position.

The fact that it is being investigated as a homicide would indicate to me that there is unreleased information that would indicate such, time will tell but I am pretty sure there is a two-legged predator involved.
 
I doubt it was wild animals.

After reading the article it sounds like it is murder or at least that is how the police are now classifiying it.
 
So, is there still no official word on whether it may have been foul play by a person/persons unknown, or an animal attack?

This is NO PLACE to go unprepared for the very worst. The world isn't necessarily a safe place. My father drummed that into my head at a young age, and I did the same with my kids when they were growing up.

Verlot is a *very* popular camping/hiking area this time of year. I have been there more times than I can count and its a huge area for Seattle hikers because its just a short drive from the city. I wouldnt describe it as "remote", at least not in terms of national forests.

Closer and less remote than the Olympic National Forest lands? Been through some of that when visiting relatives, but not the other one. I actually have some family in Wenatchee, but haven't gone there to visit them. We generally meet up with other family members in the Seattle area or on the Olympic Peninsula.

Is this older article talking about the area where this occurred? http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/getaways/37770_hike06.shtml
 
Closer and less remote than the Olympic National Forest lands?
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SIGNIFICANTLY. Verlot is directly adjacent to the I-5 corridor (main thouroughfare through the state) and within probably 40 minutes to an hour of Seattle at most.
 
Somebody got the 2A wrong and did "keep and arm bears"...

OK, not funny, sorry. This sucks. Human predators remain the most dangerous kind.
 
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003123536_forestcrime13m.html

Of course it is illegal to carry in a National Park, unless you are protecting livestock, or your weapon is disassembled and unloaded and you are just transporting it through the area.
Solution: "be careful" or, "hike in a group"? Good suggestions from the authorities.

I once stumbled on a meth lab on the Olympic Penninsula. It was a very creepy feeling. Coincidentally, I have this friend who when on NP land always seems to be looking for a lost horse on his way to the range.
 
My bad, I missed the sidebar to the article where they suggest "carry a noisemaker" in the national forest.
 
Legal or not I just don't picture these people carrying a gun for self defense.

"As a librarian, teacher, activist, neighbor, friend, and mother, Mary touched the lives of countless people. Susanna was dedicated to nurturing positive relationships between children and the natural world, and her commitment to peace was evident in her compassionate nature. Like her mother, she lived her life in service to what she believed. Passion for the outdoors was intrinsic to their lives, and family trips to the Cascades were a weekly occurrence."
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