Mouse Guns : YOUR Definition, CCW, etc. ?
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bangbang01
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The TT-33 is a 7.62x25. I'm talking about having a 9mm necked down to 32 cal, where there are several high quality bullet designs available to reload, as I think it would be a really expensive round unless it took off.
I've heard you can get a barrel conversion for the Glock 20 that converts it to 7.62x25. I watched a video of this round being tested in ballistic gel with a plain Jane soft point, and it was still pretty impressive.
Not a good example. As you can see in this picture:
7.62x35 third from right between .32acp and .380acp
It is too large to be used in small pistols. Further, the TT-33 itself is a very poor choice as an EDC for a litany of reasons.
bangbang01
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Yeah, it's WAY too big for a pocket gun. I think 32NAA is about the perfect round in a little 10 ounce polly mouse gun. I've never shot the round, but I read that the recoil is significantly less than 380, and expands more consistently while still giving you about 10-12 inches of penetration into a gel block.
I think a 9mm necked down to .32 would be a great round for recoil sensitive shooters in a duty sized gun. One would have to think that a little 60 grain 32 cal gold dot smacking something at 1600-1800 FPS would be pretty impressive. The round could also make some of the ultralight 9mm pistols out there like the Kahr PM9 or Kel-tec Pf9 much easier to handle for all shooters. I own a PF9, and it is not fun to shoot. Since it's a defense gun, I'm OK with that, but my wife literally won't shoot the thing. My father in-law who is in his 70's shot the thing once and literally said " How about a little ****ing warning next time." as he shook his head. This is a guy that still has no problem blasting a 4" 357 mag all day at the range.
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Panzerschwein
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Nonsense. It is very popular in Russian and former Soviet Blok countries for that purpose even today. It is a powerful and highly reliable pistol, that is very thin and compact. Have you ever tried to conceal one, or have you ever even fired one? My guess is no on both counts. They are a solid choice, and can defeat light ballistic vests as well.
Yes, I have a friend that has been slowly assembling example weapons from all participants in WWII. I haven't carried it, the only east block handgun that I ever carried on a regular basis was a Makarov. However, I have handled and fired the TT-33. Not only because it wasn't a great shooter, also because it is an old gun firing uncommon ammunition, I will stand by my position that it is not a good choice for EDC.
That doesn't discount the probability that somewhere in the world, at this very moment, there is probably someone carrying one. I also would not be surprised to find that at this very moment, somewhere in the world, someone is probably carrying a cap and ball revolver. I would also not recommend that for an EDC However, if that person is satisfied with their choice, then that is good for them.
No matter, this is going far off topic. To stay on topic, I do not consider the TT-33 or the 7.62x35 , in general, to be a mouse gun or mouse gun caliber. If you do, then that is fine, I see no reason to argue the point; after all, this is a thread about personal opinion, not a call for consensus.
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I called Beretta this week and asked a customer service rep if Beretta had cancelled plans to chamber the Pico in .32 ACP. She said Beretta had not cancelled its plans to chamber the Pico in .32 ACP, but she couldn't tell me the ETA for the .32 conversion.
Gun Master
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The Taurus Spectrum .380 is definitely a mouse gun.
I have a separate thread on it, questioning its reliability .
There seems to be a lack of info.
I have a separate thread on it, questioning its reliability .
There seems to be a lack of info.
Trunk Monkey
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Gun Master
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Pretty much anything that isn't this
View attachment 772244
Fort Sill kinda ruined me for handguns[/QUOTE
]
Yep. You can't put that in your pants pocket and go to Kroger.
Trunk Monkey
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No but I bet you if I drive to Kroger's in it Nobody messes with me (as long as I have 12 other guys to help me run it)
springer7676
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Any small handgun regardless of caliber....that you can pocket.....pocket is the key word to me.....a blue jean pocket or coat pocket for sure.
I picked up my new mouse gun yesterday. It arrived abut a week ago and I got to my FFL yesterday. I haven't had time to shoot it yet. I may be able to in a couple of days.
I noticed that the trigger is a bit heavier than the Colt in the picture above in this thread; that may have more to do with years of use than anything else. That being said, the trigger ins't, bad; just a bit (and a tiny bit) heavier.
The Colt magazines do fit. I have some Kimber magazines on order. They seem to be taking a while to get here.
Other observations, my wife immediately liked the colour combo of the Kimber and I may end up ordering a second one. Measured weight (empty, no magazine) was 13.5 oz, 5.5 ounces lighter than the Colt and only 1.2oz. heavier than the Glock 42.
I noticed that the trigger is a bit heavier than the Colt in the picture above in this thread; that may have more to do with years of use than anything else. That being said, the trigger ins't, bad; just a bit (and a tiny bit) heavier.
The Colt magazines do fit. I have some Kimber magazines on order. They seem to be taking a while to get here.
Other observations, my wife immediately liked the colour combo of the Kimber and I may end up ordering a second one. Measured weight (empty, no magazine) was 13.5 oz, 5.5 ounces lighter than the Colt and only 1.2oz. heavier than the Glock 42.
Garandimal
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The only "mouse gun" in inventory:
6+1 Sig P938/9mm.
GR
6+1 Sig P938/9mm.
GR
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Kendal Black
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1: What is YOUR definition of a Mouse Gun ?
2: Would (do) you use one for primary carry ? Which one ?
3: Same as above, for backup ? Which ?
4: Specify largest and smallest Mouse Gun you would "consider" carrying ?
Thanks for all objective replies .
I define a mouse gun according to its negative connotation of something inadequate. Some here seem to use the term to apply to any particularly small handgun. Among small guns, clearly, some are less inadequate than others, so such an over-broad definition robs the "mouse gun" term of its utility. Why not just say "small pistol"?
For me the baseline small gun is a .38 snub and anything less adequate seems mousey to me. Depending on the occassion, I've used small .38's as backup and as primary. That's as small as I am willing to go. It's not a tiny type so it also ends up being the biggest I use in the hideout gun role. (My answers for smallest and largest are the same, in other words. If I need a little gun it is a .38 snub every time.)
I wouldn't argue against an auto pistol in .380 or 9mm for the same role for which I use the .38--if the gun is one the bearer can shoot straight enough for personal defense use. I don't consider, say, the Glock 42 and 43 to be mouse guns. The tiniest .380's are or aren't depending on whether you can make them shoot adequately well.
bangbang01
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Honestly the tiniest 380s and 32's like the little kel-tecs or the ruger lcp shoot just as accurately as a snubby 38 for a lot of people, and some of the tiny 380s with a decent trigger on them like the LCP 2 or the micro Sig 1911s shoot much better for some people.
Obviously, a subby works much better for some people because it's easier to get a better purchase on the grip. I couldn't imagine trying to shoot something like a little lcp with a big set of paws like most bigger guys have, but for those that can, these guns are actually pretty accurate for what they are. When rapidly fired double action, my p32 will shoot circles around my Ruger LCR 38 (for me). Granted, it's only a 32, but with bullet technology some of the most stout 380 rounds these days really aren't that far behind 38 + P out of a 1.8 inch barrel.
To each his own, but there's been quite a bit of advancement in Pocket 380s over the last 20 years.
Mouse = under .380
Jeb Stuart
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How about a watch Pocket gun? For myself, it just does not get any better than the Beretta Pico. Love the thin design, thousands of rounds now without a failure and fits anywhere. Here is one of mine with the "Clipdraw", I have been carrying around in my jean's watch pocket. Fully loaded with 7 rounds of defense Loads. And One, very MILD shooter in 380! Not to mention it is built like a TANK!
bannockburn
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Hasaf
I like the two tone color scheme of your Kimber as well! Looks different in a good way.
I like the two tone color scheme of your Kimber as well! Looks different in a good way.
Jeb Stuart
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I agree, that is a nice color of the Kimber. Would love to have one.
WestKentucky
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To me mouseguns are all about size. If I can palm it then it counts. I have carried mouseguns but only as a novelty. I would consider a 32 caliber (any of them) Up to 9mm or 38spl. I really really really want a NAA guardian in 32 NAA.
huntsman
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Does that clip require you to modify you grip when shooting? I’ve been curious but since I have big hands I’m reluctant to buy one.
Jeb Stuart
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Not at all. And I have a size 9 large hand with long fingers. Thinking about getting one for my LCR9mm as well.
Tiro Finale
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In my mind, .32 is the upper caliber limit for a mouse gun. The 9mm family (9mm Luger, .380, .38, etc) seems too large and powerful for a mouse gun. To me, a true mouse gun is a .22, .25, or .32 that is exceptionally small, light, and easily-concealed.
I wouldn't carry a .22 or .25, but I might carry a .32 with spicy ammo. The way I see it, a concealed pistol should be a weapon that you can shoot quickly, accurately, and confidently. A good subcompact .32 can be fired quickly and accurately due to its lower recoil compared to larger caliber subcompacts (those pocket 9's and .380's can be real palm-spankers).
I wouldn't carry a .22 or .25, but I might carry a .32 with spicy ammo. The way I see it, a concealed pistol should be a weapon that you can shoot quickly, accurately, and confidently. A good subcompact .32 can be fired quickly and accurately due to its lower recoil compared to larger caliber subcompacts (those pocket 9's and .380's can be real palm-spankers).
dbmjr1
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1: What is YOUR definition of a Mouse Gun ?
I consider a mouse gun to be of caliber .32, or less, and small enough to easily fit in a pocket.
2: Would (do) you use one for primary carry ?I often do. Which one ?Most frequently I'll carry a NAA .22lr in the old style folding holster. It's what I carry when I don't want to carry a gun.
3: Same as above, for backup ? YesWhich ? See above. The fastest reload is often another gun.
4: Specify largest and smallest Mouse Gun you would "consider" carrying ? I've got about a dozen NAAs. I've also got two Berettas, one in .22short, and one in .25acp. Sometimes I'll carry a NAA in .22 mag. Mostly just the .22lr. The Berettas are large enough that I'd rather carry a Ruger LCR in a better caliber.
Thanks for all objective replies .
Basically; If I'm going to carry a substandard caliber, it'd better be small, light, and convenient. Otherwise it defeats the purpose.
I rarely leave the house without my NAA .22lr. It's folding holster makes it too convenient to carry, and makes it practical to shoot well.
I change up my carry guns frequently between a S&W M&P 2.0 9mm, and a Ruger LCRx .38 spl.
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