moving to new york city

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pitime

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im moving to NYC "manhattan or brooklyn" i currently reside in MI. i don't know much about gun laws in nyc except they are pretty strickt. I have to Guns I want to take with me and I was wondering if it would be legal they're both long guns
one is a Single shot Bolt action Winchester model 47 .22 cal Long rifle that one's a family heirloom and so I would really like to take it with me if I could the other one is a five shot bolt action mosin nagant 91/30 manufactured in 1938 at the tula factory also a gift from a family member so I really rather not part with is there anyway I can legally own these two firearms in New York City? Also is the bayonet legal, and transport can I transport these to a range and shoot them in New York also any other tidbits about owning guns in New York would be helpful please help thank you:confused:
 
You can own both of those firearms in NYC, but you'll have to register them. Don't bring them into the city until they're registered, even though it could be a long time, like a year. Leave them with a relative until you get the paperwork done.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/firearms_licensing/rifle_licensing_information.shtml

http://newyorkcityguns.com/getting-a-nyc-rifleshotgun-permit/

It's going to be long bureaucratic pain in the butt, but I urge you to push on through and do it. The more legal gun owners in NYC, the better, IMO.

For those of us New Yorkers outside the NYC metro area, it's a lot easier: pay your money, get your NICS check, grab your rifle or shotgun, and go home.

There aren't too many ranges in NYC; the only one I know of is Westside Rifle & Pistol:

http://westsidepistolrange.com/

For the money, you'd be better off going to ranges upstate, like Blue Mountain in Westchester County, about an hour north of the city:

http://parks.westchestergov.com/blue-mountain-reservation/sportsman-center

If you end up in Brooklyn, you might check into ranges on Long Island, like the Nassau County Rifle & Pistol Range, for the rimfire, anyway:

http://www.nassaucountyny.gov/1793/Rifle-Pistol-Range
 
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Just a thought, but if you lived like 45 minutes away in Sleepy Hollow, you'd be afforded way more freedom (comparatively) in terms of what you can own. In the rest of the state, you wouldn't have to register those guns. Heck, you could even live across the river in New Jersey and be better off.

Greater NYC is more than just the 5 boroughs. The general rule is any commute under 90 minutes is reasonable. Don't rule out some of the outlying areas. NJ, CT, and upstate NY are all possibilities.

As far as NYC, long guns of those variety are not really a big deal and long gun registration generally goes quicker than handgun registration.
 
As an aside, though, both NYC and Long Island have some VERY high costs of living including auto insurance (Brooklyn especially) and utilities.

Lots of neat things to do there; it's nice to see certain parts of Brooklyn being "rediscovered" - there used to a rod and gun club in Brooklyn decades ago. There is a trap/skeet range on Staten Island.
 
Several gun stores in the Bronx and Queens have their own ranges. Some require club membership, others are per visit.

I'm sure with a little checking on line you can find what you need.

Same for info on registering long guns in NYC. There is a firearms control board you will find online with all the info you need to get started.

Here's a link to the applications: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/rifle_shotgun_permit_application_20080828.pdf

The city is wonderful, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
 
I belive the you may have to lose the bayonet or leave it somewhere where it's legal.

I am not sure about the legality of having bayonet lugs on the rifle.

Maybe someone can chime in.
 
I live in New York City.

I would encourage to listen to the others and NOT bring your long guns with you until you have a New York City Rifle Shotgun Permit.

Once you have your permit, then you may bring your long guns into the city and have them registered via PD 641-121 forms. You will also need to send them a notarized letter explaining how and when the long guns were obtained.

If this sounds like a hassle, you may want to live in Fairfield, Westchester, Suffolk, Nassau, or Northern Jersey.

I've been here for 5 years, got fed up. Moving to CT later this month. Easier to do when you're married.

atek3
 
grter said:
I belive the you may have to lose the bayonet or leave it somewhere where it's legal.

I am not sure about the legality of having bayonet lugs on the rifle.
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AFAIK, bayonet lugs are only an issue on a semi-auto rifle, not a bolt-action.
 
According to the link listed in Post #2
http://newyorkcityguns.com/getting-a-nyc-rifleshotgun-permit/


"NYC Law mandates an individual can only obtain ONE rifle or shotgun every 90 days."

So you can only bring in one at a time every 90 days. And there is the issue of residency. Normally you can bring your guns with you when you move to a new state.

Except you are moving to New York City, so you have to get a rifle permit first so you can't bring the guns when you move. So do you have to be a resident of New York City to get a rifle permit? If so which means that you are no longer a resident of Michigan then.

So does that mean you must now go through an FFL to get your guns from Michigan to New York City? Yes I know they are your own guns, but you left them in Michigan and became a resident of New York City. How can you legally go back to Michigan and bring them into New York City months later since you are no longer a resident of Michigan, but now New York City?
.
 
atek3 said:
. . . .You will also need to send them a notarized letter explaining how and when the long guns were obtained.
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Not to derail the thread, but seriously? You have to do this?
 
Spats McGee said:
Not to derail the thread, but seriously? You have to do this?
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This is why I bought up this point about him leaving his rifle and shotgun in Michigan. Then by him becoming an New York City resident and no longer an Michigan resident and than going back to Michigan as a New York City resident (months later after getting the permit) and bringing back the rifle would he be breaking any Federal laws?

How does the BATF view this? If that is OK with the BATF then he still has to deal with the notarized letter explaining how and when the long guns were obtained. The notarized letter requirement will trip him up.

Should he first ship the rifle and shotgun to an NYC FFL and let it sit there until he gets the permit? Then he could legally say he got them from an FFL in that notarized letter.

Physically bring the rifle and shotgun to a NY State FFL outside of NYC. Then let it sit there at the FFL until he gets the permit? Then he could legally say he got them from an FFL in that notarized letter.

Can he get the permit in advance before becoming a New York City resident and then adding them to the permit? (Remember one long gun every 90 days).

Not to open up a can worms, but I don't want to see him get busted for trying to do the right thing. We are dealing with New York City bureaucracy here and a legal document... the notarized letter about how the guns were obtained,....is the crux off the issue.
.
 
Strict gun laws to say the least. I would not leave it to folks from all over the country to give guidance . You need facts not opinions .
Some may give facts but the end results falls on you.

You can certainly go on line (New York state ) For the information you need.
 
This is why I bought up this point about him leaving his rifle and shotgun in Michigan. Then by him becoming an New York City resident and no longer an Michigan resident and than going back to Michigan as a New York City resident (months later after getting the permit) and bringing back the rifle would he be breaking any Federal laws?

How does the BATF view this? If that is OK with the BATF then he still has to deal with the notarized letter explaining how and when the long guns were obtained. The notarized letter requirement will trip him up.

Should he first ship the rifle and shotgun to an NYC FFL and let it sit there until he gets the permit? Then he could legally say he got them from an FFL in that notarized letter.

Physically bring the rifle and shotgun to a NY State FFL outside of NYC. Then let it sit there at the FFL until he gets the permit? Then he could legally say he got them from an FFL in that notarized letter.
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I don't think there are any federal issues here. He's not transferring the weapon. It's not changing hands, he's changing his own state of residency. I think the only issue is its legality within the state and city of New York.
 
Blackbeard said:
This is why I bought up this point about him leaving his rifle and shotgun in Michigan....
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I don't think there are any federal issues here. He's not transferring the weapon.
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Giving your gun to, or leaving it with, someone to store for you will be considered a transfer. It certainly is under federal law, and would also most likely be also considered a transfer under state laws. "Transfer" is about physical possession. That's just what "transfer" means.

  1. Possession means:
    1 a : the act of having or taking into control...
    Click to expand...

  2. Some definitions of "transfer" (emphasis added):


  3. If you give possession of your gun for storage to someone who is a resident of the same State as you, it's an intrastate transfer and subject to applicable state law.

    • In many States private transfers between residents are lawful without formalities.

    • However, in some States private transfers require that certain hoops be jumped through.

  4. However, if you are not a resident of the same State as the person you leave your gun with, it becomes an interstate transfer and subject to federal law.

    • Let's look at the statutes:

      • 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
        (a) It shall be unlawful—
        ...

        (3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...
        Click to expand...

      • And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
        (a) It shall be unlawful—
        ...

        (5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;
        Click to expand...

    • Note carefully the words used in those statutes. Words like "transport", "receive", "transfer", "give", and "deliver" are all words that describe possession, not just ownership.

    • Violation of the federal interstate transfer laws can get the transferor and transferee up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).

    • So is there no way for someone to store his gun in State other than his State of residence?

      • One possibility if someone wants to store his gun outside his State of residence and avoid possible problems from making an interstate transfer in violation of federal law, would be to arrange matters in a way that gives no one in the storage State access to it.

      • Therefore, he might rent a storage locker or safe deposit box to which he alone has a key. Or if he stores a gun with a person, he might keep his gun in locked cases, a locked cabinet or locked safe to which he alone keeps the key or combination.

      • This is not guaranteed, and I haven't seen any case law or ATF opinions on this. But it is consistent with ATF's instructions for shipping a gun to oneself in care of another person. Specifically ATF has said (emphasis added):
        May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

        Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.​
        Click to expand...
 
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Frank,
I'm afraid I'm too short on time to do this research, but Midwest seems to have hit upon a particularly sticky problem: The kicker in the deal (which I'm sure you know) is that the owner of the firearms is a MI resident at one point, but can't bring the guns into NYC because he doesn't have the proper licenses. So he's got to get into NYC, establish residency to get the licenses, get the licenses then go get his guns. At that point, however, he's no longer an MI resident.

If I'm required by NY (or NYC) law to get my rifle/shotgun license & register my long guns before bringing them into NYC, then I'm in something of a conundrum. If I have to get my long gun license under NY law (NYC law?), then I have to be at least a NY (or NYC) resident to get my NYC long gun license. Therefore, my choices become:
(1) Leave the guns in MI, go to NY, establish residency, then bring the guns along. The transfers would have to go me->MI FFL (intrastate), MI FFL->NY FFL, NY FFL->me (interstate)
(2) Take the guns to NY, store them somewhere outside NYC, go get my long gun license, then bring the long guns into NY. Tranfers: me (MI resident)-> NY FFL, FFL->me (NY resident)​

If it were me, I'd call that a whole lot of hassle to keep something I already own. That doesn't mean that there's an easier (& still legal) way to do it, unfortunately.

As always, if I've misstated the law in any way, someone correct me, please. I'd rather be publicly corrected than give out bad information that could land someone in prison.
 
Spats McGee said:
Frank,
I'm afraid I'm too short on time to do this research, but Midwest seems to have hit upon a particularly sticky problem: The kicker in the deal (which I'm sure you know) is that the owner of the firearms is a MI resident at one point, but can't bring the guns into NYC because he doesn't have the proper licenses. So he's got to get into NYC, establish residency to get the licenses, get the licenses then go get his guns. At that point, however, he's no longer an MI resident....
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That is indeed the sticky issue. If he leaves the guns with someone else in another State, he has transferred possession. Retrieving then becomes another transfer, and it would be an interstate transfer under federal law.

As you can see, I've done some research on the question because it has come up a lot. And it's one of those question there's really no "law" on. We have the statutes, of course, and the common definitions of the terms "possession" and "transfer"; but I've never seen a case in which an appellate court had to apply the statutes and definitions in exactly this sort of situation.

That leaves us unable to say with certainty that if one does "X" he will be in the clear. In my prior post, I've suggested what I think could be a reasonable, but not guaranteed, approach:
...
  • One possibility if someone wants to store his gun outside his State of residence and avoid possible problems from making an interstate transfer in violation of federal law, would be to arrange matters in a way that gives no one in the storage State access to it.

  • Therefore, he might rent a storage locker or safe deposit box to which he alone has a key. Or if he stores a gun with a person, he might keep his gun in locked cases, a locked cabinet or locked safe to which he alone keeps the key or combination.

  • This is not guaranteed, and I haven't seen any case law or ATF opinions on this. But it is consistent with ATF's instructions for shipping a gun to oneself in care of another person. Specifically ATF has said (emphasis added):
    May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.​
    Click to expand...
...
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ATF in answering the FAQ appears to equate access with possession, i. e., there is no transfer of the gun if someone doesn't take physical possession of the gun itself (in contrast to a sealed container or package with a gun inside).

That view seems roughly consistent with the positions I've seen some courts take regarding "possession" in some "prohibited person possessing a gun" cases I've read.

Spats McGee said:
...If I'm required by NY (or NYC) law to get my rifle/shotgun license & register my long guns before bringing them into NYC, then I'm in something of a conundrum. If I have to get my long gun license under NY law (NYC law?), then I have to be at least a NY (or NYC) resident to get my NYC long gun license. Therefore, my choices become:

(1) Leave the guns in MI, go to NY, establish residency, then bring the guns along. The transfers would have to go me->MI FFL (intrastate), MI FFL->NY FFL, NY FFL->me (interstate)
(2) Take the guns to NY, store them somewhere outside NYC, go get my long gun license, then bring the long guns into NY. Tranfers: me (MI resident)-> NY FFL, FFL->me (NY resident)

If it were me, I'd call that a whole lot of hassle to keep something I already own. That doesn't mean that there's an easier (& still legal) way to do it, unfortunately....
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Those options are certainly the safest choices.
 
Giving your gun to, or leaving it with, someone to store for you will be considered a transfer. It certainly is under federal law, and would also most likely be also considered a transfer under state laws. "Transfer" is about physical possession. That's just what "transfer" means.
Click to expand...

I guess I was picturing a different scenario. I didn't imagine he'd leave it in someone else's custody. I imagined leaving it in his original residence or a self-storage. Thus, no change of possession.
 
Blackbeard said:
I guess I was picturing a different scenario. I didn't imagine he'd leave it in someone else's custody. I imagined leaving it in his original residence or a self-storage. Thus, no change of possession.
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Okay, as I mentioned in post 17, a self-storage locker might be an option. But leaving the gun(s) in one's original residence doesn't compute.

You're moving to another State, so aren't you leaving your current house or apartment? Won't the dwelling you're leaving be sold or rented to someone else who will move in? If not, is the premises going to be left vacant indefinitely? In either case, leaving guns behind isn't a good idea.

And if others are continuing to live there, unless any gun is secured so the remaining residents don't have access to it, you have left the gun in the custody of those remaining residents. They will have dominion and control of any gun left unsecured and thus possession. And that means that a transfer has taken place.
 
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