muzzleloading double barrel shotgun for home defense

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An 18" pistol gripped Mossberg or a 12" barreled SxS with a full stock..., and the advantage of the shorter barreled 2-shot BP shotgun with a stock is...?

The Howdah is very cool BUT when the gun gets confiscated pending the completion of the investigation of your use for SD, how much $$ do you have invested in a Howdah for two shots, when you could have the same or less if you buy the Mossberg used, and have five shots? Maybe buy two Mossbergs for the price of the Howdah?

Cabela's Pedersoli Howda = $529 in 20 gauge

Middlesex Village Trading Company = $349 in 20 gauge

Used Mossberg 500 12 Gauge with pistol grip as found on Gunbroker, starting bids at $100.

Get the Mossberg for SD and the Howdah from MVTC for fun, and have both for the price of the Pedersoli Howdah, no? :D

LD
 
I have a modern pump gun and coach gun for home defense

But i want to have some fun with black powder. I am fully aware of the shortcomings of muzzleloading guns and at age 69 have taken my fair share of game with them too. It is going to be a "FUN GUN". I like the Howdah concept, and maybe I will get one, maybe not--just exploring and that's half the fun.
 
I don't know about you, but I could never fire a PGO Mossberg like a pistol and I can't hit squat with a shotgun without properly mounting it to my shoulder and pointing it as I do when wing shooting. I just ain't in to PG or PGO "defense" shotguns. They're worthless to me regardless of how many rounds they carry. OTOH, the Howdah IS a pistol. :D You shoot it like a pistol. Yeah, I'd like to see some 10 or 15 yard patterns, too. It might pattern a little wild. But, the deal is, a smooth bore cartridge gun is NOT legal as a pistol with a pistol length barrel, only as a class 3, the whole point of the OP. And, if the cops held it for evidence (has happened before), I do have other guns to use. Out of 20 long guns and 20 handguns, I'm not going to go unarmed. :rolleyes: I keep a coach gun, 20 gauge matter of fact, in the bedroom along with a .38, a .357 magnum, and my daily carry if I'm carrying the 9 that day and not the .38.

Not my thread, but I think the Howdah can have some obvious real world uses due to current gun laws and the gun control act of 1934. The fact that you can mail order it without an FFL is cool, too, one of the things that has always attracted me to black powder. Yeah, it's a little expensive and I won't likely get one anytime soon for that reason, but it sure is a cool gun. It could even have some uses afield as with my .45 colt/.410 10" contender which isn't really a great single purpose gun, but is HUGE fun and useful for some general purpose outdoor uses. I've shot birds on the wing with that thing, taken a few squirrels, shot a hog (.45 Colt), and bagged a rabbit at a little over 15 yards when I kicked him out of the brush. It's scored a few rattlers, too. I guess the Howdah isn't choked, so field uses could be a little more limited, but it'd be a better choice for close range defense.
 
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The Howdah is huge and heavy. It's not at all the same as a cut-down thin barreled smokeless powder shotgun. It's basically the big Pedersoli Kodiak DB with a pistol grip and shorter barrels.
 
MCgunner- I could not have said it better- Thanks

Blackpowder has been in my blood for more than 5 decades and once you are bitten by it, it seems you are hooked. I too have many different guns, handguns, shotguns, rifles, spanning the flintlock, percussion, western frontier and modern era. I find them all interesting and useful in many different ways, and most have had a profound impact on our nation and people in some respect.
 
How easy is it to dissassemble/clean a LeMat? This thread has made me aware of a curios sensation... of money burning a hole in my pocket... lol
 
The Howdah is very cool BUT when the gun gets confiscated pending the completion of the investigation of your use for SD, how much $$ do you have invested in a Howdah for two shots, when you could have the same or less if you buy the Mossberg used, and have five shots? Maybe buy two Mossbergs for the price of the Howdah?
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Dave, that sounds great in theory, and that's the way it should work for everyone. Unfortunately, here in MI at least, if the average Joe shoots an intruder he can expect to have every firearm, sword, bb gun, cannon, and anything else "dangerous" looking that he may own/have on the premises confiscated for "evidence".
 
With all respect to the beauty of these weapons, it seems to me if your desire is to remain alive through a home invasion you want a gun that does go BOOM every time. That would be a 20" barrel 12ga pump.
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Just a week or so ago I had a bunch of 12 gauge shells fail to go BOOM. Same with a bunch of 20 gauge shells. Probably close to a box of each.

When did they start making shotgun shells out of that new-fangled plastic stuff, anyway? And when did they stop marking the shot size on the cardboard over-shot wads?

S5000779.jpg

I got the shells from the same place as these. The guy assured me they were only a couple years old.

S5000782.jpg

S5000786.jpg

S5000790.jpg

S5000785.jpg
 
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...now I am hankerin' for a nice, short, Pistol-Grip, Double Barrel, Muzzle Loading, Black Powder, Percussion, 12 Gauge Shotgun...


Well...next Gun Show...I'll be looking for a Candy-Date..!
 
12 Howdah

What does a 12 give you that a 20 doesn't? I shoot an ounce of .32 balls in the Howdah and it gets real sorty at 60 grains. Pedersoli recommends about 80 for their upland double 20.

You can pore more powder and shot in a Howdah and it will snort as much as you can stand. If that does not work try dropping the hammer on both barrels. I recommend wearing gloves over 40 grains.

If you chop a Pedersoli or a Navy arms 2X12 you are going to have a really light shorty. Follow the links above in this thread and you can see how much snort you are getting with these pistols (bear in mind that the videos are probably Not top end loads!).
 
What does a 12 give you that a 20 doesn't?
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The name "12 ga."
Bragging rights to go with the larger bore.
Higher powder and lead consumption.
A wish that they were available in 10 ga./.78 caliber.

That's about it. Otherwise, your points are all pretty doggone on the mark. :)
 
a better question is what can a 20 do that a 12 can't? In both cartidge and black powder you can easily load the bigger gun down to the smaller one's specs,but the reverse is harder.I love my 16 ga,but I also own a 12.
 
But i want to have some fun with black powder
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THAT'S DIFFERENT!:D

You want to have some fun...., apparently with something different..., that uses black powder..., that you don't see at the range...., AND that might be useful in an SD situation to boot..., :scrutiny: then by all means...,

BUY THE HOWDAH

Actually, buy two; they're small, AND you have two hands!

I wonder what kind of pattern you get when you have two Howdah's, and you fire both barrels from each (perhaps one at a time) at a target at 10 yards?

Actually I must confess I want one too!

LD
 
Jefferson Herb Thanks for the info on powder loadings and the time in the gun

That is what I have been wanting to know. I am thinking 20 ga , my choice for home defense, and fun. I have been hunting with black powder rifles for decades but have never left one loaded for any length of time. Heck, 2 months for me is great as I would take it out and shoot some , clean, and reload it again. You have to think that the early settlers, Mt. men, trappers, must have left their guns loaded for quite some time, be it rifle smoothbore, or pistols. I am thinking about a 20 GA shotgun with 12" barrels or the Howdah, If I finally decide after all the research, this is what I want. A SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL FOR MY POST AS IT HAS BEEN INFORMATIVE AND FUN, sincerely Snooperman
 
They sell the Middlesex (I keep wanting to write Missilesex :)) as a .62 smoothbore. Mine was mic'd to .638" which is about 18 gauge. I didn't wait for it to arrive, I jumped the gun and bought a whole bunch of 20 gauge muzzleloading supplies. 1000 over powder wads, 1000 overshot wads, and 1000 oil impregnated fiber wads. The overshot wads and the over powder wads are too small, the fibrous wads aren't a problem, I'm sure they expand when it's fired. I don't know why they sell Circle Fly wads in bags of 1000. I don't know what to do with these overshot wads. Confetti for big parties. :)

I got some scrap cardstock from work and went to town with a 7/8" punch and made up a whole lot of overshot wads that I use on top of the overpowder wads to keep the powder from dribbling into the shot. They hold #1 Buck (.30" ball), steel BB's, and #6 and #7-8 birdshot in place just fine. I made my own ramrod using a piece of oak dowelrod, a 2" hardwood craft ball, and a 20 gauge ramrod tip. I experimented with cut down 20 gauge shotcups, but they're not necessary at all.

I've gone up to 50 grains of FFg 777 and it doesn't kick that bad. 40 grains doesn't kick at all, it just makes huge smoke. It's also not that loud, might be softer on my ears than a modern shotgun, which is something to think about if you're shooting at bad guys in your house. You would blow out your eardrums indoors after the first shot.

If your shots don't stop the bad guy, you can also club him to death with it with all the brass on it's grip.
 
wittzo, the club concept is well appreciated here. As is your experience with the Middlesex Howdah. I am very tempted, if nothing else than because I'd love to replace the stock with something I made. Please continue to post your experiences with the India made weaponry!
 
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